Maximum Input Power and Amplifier Range Question.

[ouchakov]

Hello, everyone,

My question might sound trivial, but I am going to ask it anyway ;-)

I have Paradigm Reference Studio 40s and cc570 center channel, and I am planning to bi-amp them. So I am currently looking for a 7 channel amp. (Either Anthem PVA 7 or Adcom 7607).

I am going towards Adcom due to their independent 7 channel amps as opposed to stereo amps in PVA. Hereby lies the question:

Paradigm speakers' manual specifies the "suitable amplifier power range" between 15 - 180 watts and a maximum input power of 140 watts.

What would happen if I bi-amp my speakers with Adcom (125 watts per channel or 250 watts in the bi-amp state)?

Am I safer with PVA instead that rates at only 105 watts per channel?

Thanks everyone!

- Ouch

 

[Haoleb]

Hello, everyone,

My question might sound trivial, but I am going to ask it anyway ;-)

I have Paradigm Reference Studio 40s and cc570 center channel, and I am planning to bi-amp them. So I am currently looking for a 7 channel amp. (Either Anthem PVA 7 or Adcom 7607).

I am going towards Adcom due to their independent 7 channel amps as opposed to stereo amps in PVA. Hereby lies the question:

Paradigm speakers' manual specifies the "suitable amplifier power range" between 15 - 180 watts and a maximum input power of 140 watts.

What would happen if I bi-amp my speakers with Adcom (125 watts per channel or 250 watts in the bi-amp state)?

Am I safer with PVA instead that rates at only 105 watts per channel?

Thanks everyone!

- Ouch

Nothing bad will happen. Go for the Adcom! Its always better to have more power than you need than less than you need. You will only be using as much power as your listening level requires. which for most people is much less than what their amps are rated to deliver.

 

[Nick250]

Hello, everyone,

My question might sound trivial, but I am going to ask it anyway ;-)

I have Paradigm Reference Studio 40s and cc570 center channel, and I am planning to bi-amp them. So I am currently looking for a 7 channel amp. (Either Anthem PVA 7 or Adcom 7607).

I am going towards Adcom due to their independent 7 channel amps as opposed to stereo amps in PVA. Hereby lies the question:

Paradigm speakers' manual specifies the "suitable amplifier power range" between 15 - 180 watts and a maximum input power of 140 watts.

What would happen if I bi-amp my speakers with Adcom (125 watts per channel or 250 watts in the bi-amp state)?

Am I safer with PVA instead that rates at only 105 watts per channel?
Thanks everyone!
- Ouch

I have always been curious about this. I assume you are doing passive bi amping. Since the crossover inside the speakers connects all the drivers together, how is this different than just adding more power from a single connection?

In your example, instead of feeding each speaker two 125 watt amps, why not a single 250? The crossover would distribute the power the same in either case I would think. What am I missing?

Nick

 

[ouchakov]

Hi, Nick.

There are many articles on this bi-amping thing, but basically all of them end with "If you can do it, then try it, it may bring improvement to the sound, soundstage, transparency, etc."

So that's what I am thinking, if it'll work, great, but if sound is the same then I can rest easy knowing that I did all I could in that link of my home theater P-)

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

If you have anything else to add on the "suitable amplifier power range" or "maximum input power", post it here.

Cheers,

-Ouch

 

[Nick250]

Hi, Nick.

There are many articles on this bi-amping thing, but basically all of them end with "If you can do it, then try it, it may bring improvement to the sound, soundstage, transparency, etc."

So that's what I am thinking, if it'll work, great, but if sound is the same then I can rest easy knowing that I did all I could in that link of my home theater P-)

I can understand experimenting to see if there is anything to the claims of this or that. Let us know how it turns out and good luck!

Nick

 

[mtrycrafts]

There are many articles on this bi-amping thing, but basically all of them end with "If you can do it, then try it, it may bring improvement to the sound, soundstage, transparency, etc."

So that's what I am thinking, if it'll work, great, but if sound is the same then I can rest easy knowing that I did all I could in that link of my home theater P-)
-Ouch

The only problem with experimenting is that if done improperly, your results will be unreliable at best and the conclusions will be based on a false premise.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have always been curious about this. I assume you are doing passive bi amping. Since the crossover inside the speakers connects all the drivers together, how is this different than just adding more power from a single connection?

In your example, instead of feeding each speaker two 125 watt amps, why not a single 250? The crossover would distribute the power the same in either case I would think. What am I missing?

Nick

Mids and highs are not the drivers that usually tasks the amps but the low driver is. Of course you know this but the above poster may not

So, placing two of the same power is no improvement, really and what you suggested would be. And, perhaps, the tweeter may be at risk of being over driven with its own powerful amp?

 

[ouchakov]

<< So, placing two of the same power is no improvement, really and what you suggested would be. And, perhaps, the tweeter may be at risk of being over driven with its own powerful amp? >>

Mtrycrafts,

Reading from your post, you would rather run 250 watts to a speaker and do not bi-amp? I think it's the first time I read somebody saying that...

- Ouch

 

[PENG]

In your example, instead of feeding each speaker two 125 watt amps, why not a single 250? The crossover would distribute the power the same in either case I would think. What am I missing?

Nick

No it is not the same. In passive bi-amping, you remove the links on the speaker terminals to separate the internal crossovers so that one amp powers the low frequency driver and the other amp powers the mid and high frequency drivers.

Ouch,125WPC is not that much, so I also think that one single 250WPC amp may get you better result. In either case, you cannot have too much power for the Studio 40. Long before you reach the point of overpowering them, you would have reached SPL that you cannot withstand unless your room is really huge.

 

[Nick250]

<< So, placing two of the same power is no improvement, really and what you suggested would be. And, perhaps, the tweeter may be at risk of being over driven with its own powerful amp? >>

Mtrycrafts,

Reading from your post, you would rather run 250 watts to a speaker and do not bi-amp? I think it's the first time I read somebody saying that...
- Ouch

With all do respect Ouch, what Mtrycrafts is suggesting is nothing out of the ordinary. It's the same thing I said earlier. Do you understand how the internal crossovers work inside your speakers? It seems to me you don't otherwise we would not be having this discussion.

Nick

From my first post in this thread:

In your example, instead of feeding each speaker two 125 watt amps, why not a single 250? The crossover would distribute the power the same in either case I would think. What am I missing?

 

[ouchakov]

Thanks for all your input, guys!

I am just trying to see what will work better for my system.

Adcom also makes 7807 that is rates at 300 watts, perhaps I will try that instead of bi-amping or try an Anthem MCA 50 that is a modest 225 watts ;-)

Happy home theater watching everyone!

- Ouch

 

[mulester7]

In passive bi-amping, you remove the links on the speaker terminals to separate the internal crossovers so that one amp powers the low frequency driver and the other amp powers the mid and high frequency drivers.

.....Peng, correct, but I say the internal passive crossover sections were already seperated, and you couldn't use two seperate amps unless the two internal crossover sections were seperate from each other....now think FIRE and the Bucket Brigade....in a non-bi-amped application, when you bridge the top and bottom posts with the two bridging bars, aren't you actuallly paralleling the internal seperate passive crossover sections?....why would you not be?....my point....what happens to the ohmage rating of the entire enclosure and speaker elements when you parallel two seperate passive crossover sections and the elements that are attached to the seperate passive crossover sections?....why wouldn't you then get a 4 ohm rating overall for the entire speaker enclosure?....I believe manufacturers that assign an ohmage rating of 8 to bi-ampable speakers are rating at a bi-amped application....I believe in most applications, I would choose 250 watts hitting a 4 ohm speaker, but each and every one would have to be listened to, both ways, for a final decision, I guess......

 

[PENG]

.....Peng, correct, but I say the internal passive crossover sections were already seperated, and you couldn't use two seperate amps unless the two internal crossover sections were seperate from each other....now think FIRE and the Bucket Brigade....in a non-bi-amped application, when you bridge the top and bottom posts with the two bridging bars, aren't you actuallly paralleling the internal seperate passive crossover sections?....why would you not be?....my point....what happens to the ohmage rating of the entire enclosure and speaker elements when you parallel two seperate passive crossover sections and the elements that are attached to the seperate passive crossover sections?....why wouldn't you then get a 4 ohm rating overall for the entire speaker enclosure?....I believe manufacturers that assign an ohmage rating of 8 to bi-ampable speakers are rating at a bi-amped application....I believe in most applications, I would choose 250 watts hitting a 4 ohm speaker, but each and every one would have to be listened to, both ways, for a final decision, I guess......

mule, as you know by now, I don't get into debates about whether bi-amp/bi-wire or whatever makes any different in SQ. I only want to uphold the theory part. I am not sure I understood you totally. My understanding is that speakers that provide the links basically bring the leads of the internally separated (I assume that's what you meant) crossover leads (two pairs) outside so that you can "link" them (two pair of terminals) together, or keep them separated from each other by removing the links.

Obviously if you are going to bi-amp, you remove the links to keep the H.F & M/LF crossovers separated from each other. If you keep the links on, clearly the crossovers are connected together at the links, right? Either way the crossovers would function the same way in terms of filtering the signals for the drivers as Nick may have been alluding to, but the difference is that with the XO separated, only one amp can power the hungry bass and the other can only power the mid/hi (or just hi for 2-ways) drivers.

Now, if you are talking about speakers that don't allow bi-amp or bi-wire, they provide only one pair of terminals with NO links and the internal crossovers are linked together. There is no way that they can be separated as you only have one pair of terminals. As far as the point you raised about impedance, it is more involved, and is hard to talk about it in a few short paragraph. Anyway, are we talking about the same thing, or we are both confused??

 

[mulester7]

Obviously if you are going to bi-amp, you remove the links to keep the H.F & M/LF crossovers separated from each other.

.....this is the point I'm trying to make....the crossover sections inside are totally seperated from each other whether you bi-amp or use the bridging links and one amp....hey, I'm not trying to debate anything, nor am I trying to draw you into any debate....I'm saying the two passive internal crossover sections are totally seperate from each other or you couldn't use two amps, and when you "link" them together, you are "paralleling" the passive crossover sections at the two sets of terminals with the bridging links or rods, and you are paralleling the speaker elements that are attached to the seperate crossover sections, that's all....forget frequency dependent ohmage factors, the speaker elements are paralleled and that brings an ohmage change in the stated ohmage assignment of the entire enclosure and the watts that will be pulled from an amp section and amp heating factors....just food for thought....

 

[mike c]

... Reading from your post, you would rather run 250 watts to a speaker and do not bi-amp? I think it's the first time I read somebody saying that...

- Ouch

I would recommend that too.

oh and don't be afraid to power a speaker with more watts than recommended. you'll be turning down the volume even before you reach 20% (generous estimate) of the max wattage.

 

[AVRat]

Ouch, as you can see from Nick, Peng, and Mule’s discussion, bi-amping speakers properly is more complex than it seems. For most people, a higher wattage single amp is the best solution. Unless your space is over 4000 cu. ft., a good quality 200W amp will be plenty. I don’t see a sub in your equipment list. Adding a good quality sub will change the sound impact significantly.