Marantz SR6004 problem

[stello101]

I recently rebuilt an old pair of speakers, Ohm B+ series cerca 1974ish, with brand new woofers. They were my fathers and his old Marantz (Model Unknown) powered them well. Though no matter how I set up the speakers in the menu console (large/small, levels) the reciever keeps shutting down and giving a "safety shut down" fault this is stating the volume is too high. The problem is the volume is NOT too high, it's completely reasonable (which is know is subjective but you'll have to take my word)

Ohm's website says the speakers at 4Ohm and the channel says 6 - 8Ohm but I was told I should be fine, and the speakers work and sound great, until the unit powers down, normally during an explosion (movie/video game) or even the second guitar solo from Pink Floyds Comfortably Numb does it.

Does this sound like a resistance issues on the channel to anyone else? Any insight would be helpful, and solutions would be even better!

Cheers

 

[bandphan]

check to make sure you have no whiskers (speaker wire) touching the chassis of the avr.

 

[tcarcio]

Funny you should bring this up now. I just called Marantz about the POD question and they said it is more then likely a problem with connections or running speakers that the reciever doesn't like. Like 4ohm speakers???

 

[TLS Guy]

I recently rebuilt an old pair of speakers, Ohm B+ series cerca 1974ish, with brand new woofers. They were my fathers and his old Marantz (Model Unknown) powered them well. Though no matter how I set up the speakers in the menu console (large/small, levels) the reciever keeps shutting down and giving a "safety shut down" fault this is stating the volume is too high. The problem is the volume is NOT too high, it's completely reasonable (which is know is subjective but you'll have to take my word)

Ohm's website says the speakers at 4Ohm and the channel says 6 - 8Ohm but I was told I should be fine, and the speakers work and sound great, until the unit powers down, normally during an explosion (movie/video game) or even the second guitar solo from Pink Floyds Comfortably Numb does it.

Does this sound like a resistance issues on the channel to anyone else? Any insight would be helpful, and solutions would be even better!

Cheers

Is this your speaker?

It could be a number of things.

May be there are parts in the crossover that have deteriorated. May be you caused a short replacing the woofer. Go over your work.

It is certainly possible your receiver does not like the load. The amp sections of modern receivers are cheap and nasty on the whole, and no where near the standard of what your father's would have been.

 

[stello101]

TLS_Guy One model Newer than that B series. before i even bothered ordering the new woofers I brought the speakers to the store and powered them with the demo SR6004 and everything worked fine.. This lead me to believe I had not wired the woofers correctly but there were only two terminals to connect to the leads from the cross over. Which I have checked, but will have to check again, and make sure nothing fell into the cross over.

If I had created a short would the system not shut off imediatly? The speakers work and sound great, just not at elevated volumes.

 

[Seth=L]

If I had created a short would the system not shut off imediatly? The speakers work and sound great, just not at elevated volumes.

Not always. I've had many receivers operate and output while being shorted out, and several times had tripped the relays on some gear I had. Try using different wire while your at it, it's possible the wire you used was defective in line somewhere.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS_Guy One model Newer than that B series. before i even bothered ordering the new woofers I brought the speakers to the store and powered them with the demo SR6004 and everything worked fine.. This lead me to believe I had not wired the woofers correctly but there were only two terminals to connect to the leads from the cross over. Which I have checked, but will have to check again, and make sure nothing fell into the cross over.

If I had created a short would the system not shut off imediatly? The speakers work and sound great, just not at elevated volumes.

I saw a three way Ohm B on the web, but it is not on the Ohm site that I can see. If it the one I say, it has that dreadful CTS tweeter of the period.

If the wiring looks OK you will have to remove the crossover and test it.

If the crossover has electrolytic caps they are almost certainly broken down by now and partially shorting the woofers.

 

[tcarcio]

If they are 4 ohm that reciever is not rated for that and will go into protect mode. It is rated for 6-8 ohm only. Am I missing something?

 

[TLS Guy]

If they are 4 ohm that reciever is not rated for that and will go into protect mode. It is rated for 6-8 ohm only. Am I missing something?

When dealing with modern junk you probably aren't missing a thing. An amp that blows up or protects driving a four ohm load is pretty pathetic though. Basically that means for modern speakers you a limited to a choice of speakers not properly diffraction compensated. Personally I would rate an amp like that a waste of the Earth's resources.

 

[tcarcio]

When dealing with modern junk you probably aren't missing a thing. An amp that blows up or protects driving a four ohm load is pretty pathetic though. Basically that means for modern speakers you a limited to a choice of speakers not properly diffraction compensated. Personally I would rate an amp like that a waste of the Earth's resources.

Thanks TLS. That is probably the OP's problem though.

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks TLS. That is probably the OP's problem though.

No, it isn't. The SR6004 is capable of handling a 4 ohm load. Four possibilities here, the receiver is faulty (not very likely), the speaker has a problem (high possibility), the wiring is bad or not connected securely/properly (high possibility), the OP's idea of moderate volume is not normal (not very likely).

Edit: too support my claim that the receiver's 6-8 ohm rating is not determinate.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/marantz_sr6004_av_receiver/index4.html

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/marantz-sr6004-1/sr6004-measurements

I'd like to add that given what goes into receivers, they offer a tremendous value and many of them are capable of driving a wide range of speakers with moderately complex loads like the one's specified by this Ohm B+ speaker system. We of course don't expect the same level of performance from receivers on board amplification as we do from quality separates, but they do offer a high degree of quality in most cases and if one does research they can find the appropriate receiver type and size to fit their needs.

 

[tcarcio]

I talked to service tech from Marantz this morning and they said they do not handle 4ohm loads just 6-8ohm only. I would think the tech there knows what is talking about since he repairs them so I don't know what else to say.

 

[Seth=L]

That's what is known as *** covering. In the event a user has a speaker with a 4 ohm nominal load connected and drives the receiver to ludicrous levels and the receiver is damaged in the process Marantz is technically not responsible and that damage would not be covered under warranty. Because the company does this, it probably saves them from having to repair several hundred under warranty products and ultimately saves them money.

The tech isn't going to tell you the way it is, he's going to tell you what covers the company's ***. Given that this has been discussed on numerous threads, several times, I'd wager you've even read about it before. The bench tests don't lie, and Marantz makes more robust receivers than most competitors.

Again, unless the receiver is faulty, the receiver is not the problem.

 

[Ron Temple]

As said, the caps are probably going on the crossovers. It's past time. That said, many 4 ohm speakers can dip below and if the protection circuit on the Marantz is sensitive...

Bench testing 4 ohm loads at 1khz vs real world current demand are two separate things. It's just as likely the AVR just doesn't want to play nice with those speakers.

 

[miniSQ]

Have you put a multimeter on the speaker yet????

 

[tcarcio]

That's what is known as *** covering. In the event a user has a speaker with a 4 ohm nominal load connected and drives the receiver to ludicrous levels and the receiver is damaged in the process Marantz is technically not responsible and that damage would not be covered under warranty. Because the company does this, it probably saves them from having to repair several hundred under warranty products and ultimately saves them money.

The tech isn't going to tell you the way it is, he's going to tell you what covers the company's ***. Given that this has been discussed on numerous threads, several times, I'd wager you've even read about it before. The bench tests don't lie, and Marantz makes more robust receivers than most competitors.

Again, unless the receiver is faulty, the receiver is not the problem.

Well I guess it's possible that the tech would lie but I would sure like the OP to try a different set of 6-8ohm speakers and see. That would answer the question for sure.

 

[Seth=L]

Well I guess it's possible that the tech would lie but I would sure like the OP to try a different set of 6-8ohm speakers and see. That would answer the question for sure.

That might answer the question of the speaker wire, not the crossover on the speaker being faulty.

A meter is required.

 

[Seth=L]

As said, the caps are probably going on the crossovers. It's past time. That said, many 4 ohm speakers can dip below and if the protection circuit on the Marantz is sensitive...

Bench testing 4 ohm loads at 1khz vs real world current demand are two separate things. It's just as likely the AVR just doesn't want to play nice with those speakers.

I put a pair of Vandersteen 2Ce floor standers, 4 ohms nominal, on my tiny little desktop stereo and ran it to it's limits without tripping the relay. I've used countless 4 ohm speakers that are reported to dip down to 2-3 ohms on budget receivers and that little Teac desktop stereo without incident. I honestly don't believe a $1200 receiver would have trouble driving those speakers at comfortable to even high levels of output.

 

[PENG]

I agree with Seth that there likely are more than one or two possible reasons. We really don't have enough information to simply conclude that the OP's problem is due to the low impedance of the type/model of the speakers used in this application. Would 8 ohm speakers help? The answer should be obvious. Many people are happy with their 4 cyl vehicle (example:RAV4) but they will mostly likely find the 6 cyl version (again e.g. the 269 h.p. 6 cyl RAV4) better. That does not mean they really need that extra 90 horse powers all day long.

Most receivers are not rated for 4 ohms but if you read the fine prints of their manual and/or their website's FAQ areas, you may find that some do support 4 ohm speakers, with qualifications. I am not sure about Marantz but I know Denon does talk about running 4 ohm speaker in their FAQ area.

 

[Seth=L]

I agree with Seth that there likely are more than one or two possible reasons. We really don't have enough information to simply conclude that the OP's problem is due to the low impedance of the type/model of the speakers used in this application. Would 8 ohm speakers help? The answer should be obvious. Many people are happy with their 4 cyl vehicle (example:RAV4) but they will mostly likely find the 6 cyl version (again e.g. the 269 h.p. 6 cyl RAV4) better. That does not mean they really need that extra 90 horse powers all day long.

Most receivers are not rated for 4 ohms but if you read the fine prints of their manual and/or their website's FAQ areas, you may find that some do support 4 ohm speakers, with qualifications. I am not sure about Marantz but I know Denon does talk about running 4 ohm speaker in their FAQ area.

Notoriously, even low end Marantz receivers don't have problems with complex loads. They've been using a similar amp section in their receivers for the past couple of years and this would be a first I've seen for them to have trouble with a 4 ohm speaker such as the Ohm B+.

Peng noted that most receivers are not rated for 4 ohms. If you call tech support for any number of manufacturers who's models are not rated to handle 4 ohms will tell you not to run a speaker that is rated 4 ohms, whether it is safe for the receiver to handle the load or not. That impedance is not inherantly dangerous on it's own, and would take severe overdriving to cause a receiver the size and class of the SR6004 to trip the relays. The SR6004 was not designed to limit current when the impedance drops, and has a hefty power supply capable of handling high current demands on an instaneous high power demand or constant demands as well for respectable listening levels. The tech that says "no, don't use 4 ohm speakers, it will definitely/may damage the receiver" is just piping out what they are told to, and is in no way related to the actual capability of the amplifier section in the receiver.