Marantz SR4002 vs Harman Kardon AVR 132?

[jacococo]

Hi All,

I am a musician and music quality is very important to me.
But willing to have also possibility to see movies, I am looking for an AVR for a 40m2 room.

By the way, I already bought a pair of KEF IQ3...waiting for their receiver...

By comparing entry levels models (Denon, Yamaha and Harman Kardon),
it was obvious to my ear that the Harman Kardon AVR 132 was the best in terms of stereo sound.

It is cheap (because it's a model in end of life, without HDMI and all the new stuffs).

I was then convinced by my ears and by the High Amperage argument (although I don't really understand what that means...I mean is a high amperage voltage receiver always better than a low amperage one?).

...But when buying the KEF speakers, the seller told me that Marantz is not well marketized in my country but that they are far above the others in terms of stereo music..that Marantz SR4002 gives a warm trustable sound (like analog vintage receivers)...that will be much better than the Harman Kardon AVR 132.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to compare the models in the shops, they don't have HK AVR 132 in stock.

Can anyone who knows these models help me make the choice?

Marantz SR4002 or Harman Kardon AVR 132 ?
Again my decision criteria is mainly quality audio music.

Thanks

Dan

 

[jacococo]

Where is the truth in this jungle?

Don't know what to think...

I went to another shop, they had a Marantz 3001 at a low price and told me the opposite of what I thought:
"Denon AVR is the best for audio...We can propose you the 1509.
Harman Kardon 132 is also good ...
and Marantz is just crap...especially for music."

What????..... I then put my CD to test 3 of them....and it sound as follows:
Denon 1509 quite good...
Harman Kardon AVR 132...also quite good
and Marantz 3001 sound just CRAP!!!"

The girl also explained that Marantz was manufactured in China while Denon was manufactured in the USA....

I don't know what to think???? Denon, HK or Marantz?

And is it possible the previous vendor lied to me so much by telling Marantz SR4002 is the 8th beauty of the world????


Gurus, please help me understand the truth in this jungle

 

[rnatalli]

The sales people you have been dealing with are blowing smoke. Denon's are not made in the US. Some are made in Japan, but most in China like everything else. None of this matters anyways as even units like Outlaw that are assembled in the US use parts from overseas.

Most receivers out of the box will probably sound a little different, but once properly calibrated and levels matched, you aren't going to notice large differences. If SQ is your top priority, speaker selection impacts sound far more than electronics will. HK, Denon, and Marantz all make excellent receivers and all three brands generally meet their stated specs. The one with the features you want at the best price is what you should buy.

 

[soundhound]

It's hard for me to believe the marantz sounded noticeably like "crap," but you're the one who heard it. Was it set up equal to the others? What speakers were being used? Were they hooked up correctly, in phase? As long as you're sure it was set up right and you liked the others better, than rule out the marantz. If the HK soujnded great to you and has the features you need, get that one. If the Denon sounded better and is in your price range with wanted features, go for that. Don't get too hung up on the brand name, just go for what sounds best to you. You're the one who has to listen to it, after all.

 

[jacococo]

Thanks!

Hi RNatalli and SoundHound,

Thanks for your answers!

Concerning HK AVR 132, the spec says 5* 30Watts...
One vendor told me it is "too bad using a so weak receiver for your IQ3 KEF speakers"....he meant that HK AVR 132 was mainly built for sets with little speakers....

When auditioning my CD although, HK gave more power than the other ones for the equivalent DB value....

1. So that means that the vendor's argument is not true?
2. If I use this HK 30 watts amplifier, will it more distord the sound at high volume than amplifiers claiming 100W? Again, I need a good sound for audio CDs mainly...

Best Day

Dan

 

[soundhound]

Hi RNatalli and SoundHound,

Thanks for your answers!

Concerning HK AVR 132, the spec says 5* 30Watts...
One vendor told me it is "too bad using a so weak receiver for your IQ3 KEF speakers"....he meant that HK AVR 132 was mainly built for sets with little speakers....

When auditioning my CD although, HK gave more power than the other ones for the equivalent DB value....

1. So that means that the vendor's argument is not true?
2. If I use this HK 30 watts amplifier, will it more distord the sound at high volume than amplifiers claiming 100W? Again, I need a good sound for audio CDs mainly...

Best Day

Dan

Q: if it's mainly for audio CDs, why not just get a 2-channel amp or receiver? I think the SQ will be much higher for the same money you spend. Unless you will be using it for HT also. Just thought I'd ask though.

 

[jacococo]

Right, Soundhound

You are right, Soundhound, the best thing would be a stereo receiver...by the way, I heard my CD on a HK 970, and it just sound fantastic...
but I would like to get a compromise between good sound and extension possibilites (movies)....

So I stay with my question about the 30 Watts...is it a problem or shouldn't I pay attention to it ?

. So that means that the vendor's argument is not true?
2. If I use this HK 30 watts amplifier, will it more distord the sound at high volume than amplifiers claiming 100W? Again, I need a good sound for audio CDs mainly...

 

[soundhound]

You are right, Soundhound, the best thing would be a stereo receiver...by the way, I heard my CD on a HK 970, and it just sound fantastic...
but I would like to get a compromise between good sound and extension possibilites (movies)....

So I stay with my question about the 30 Watts...is it a problem or shouldn't I pay attention to it ?

. So that means that the vendor's argument is not true?
2. If I use this HK 30 watts amplifier, will it more distord the sound at high volume than amplifiers claiming 100W? Again, I need a good sound for audio CDs mainly...

I wouldn't worry about it. Those aren't really accurate anyway, imo. In fact, H/K is probably more accurate than the others. Just get whatever sounds best to you. If the HK has pre-outs, you can also always add an amp later if you need more power.

 

[Gimpy Ric]

So I stay with my question about the 30 Watts...is it a problem or shouldn't I pay attention to it ?

Harmon Kardon really under rates their true power output. That 30 wpc is really more like 60 or 75 wpc.

I suggest finding a Harmon Kardon Stereo receiver from the Ebay outlet store, like this:

Harman Kardon 3385 Stereo Receiver w/ 80W per channel - 198.00 Full Factory Warranty

This comes from the Harmon Factory Outlet Store on Ebay. Just like brand new with remote, manual, everything. Has dual sub outs so you can add a sub or two later.

Watch your ear drums! That 80 Wpc is really like 120 or a little more. I checked the specs and those IQ3's are pretty nice speakers. Enjoy

Ric

 

[jacococo]

Good idea

SoundHound again thanks for your intersting remarks...I didn't think about adding AMP, if it doesn't distort the sound, it is a good idea

Ric,

That is an excellent idea...but I live in Israel...so I don't think they chip there...I didn't know about this remanufacturing stuff...
and if 30W is like 60w of others then it might be enough
Thanks

 

[soundhound]

hey jacococo -- what didn't you like about the marantz sound, btw? those usually get good reviews for their sound quality. can you try to describe what about it sounded crappy to you -- too thin, too dark, too midrangey, poor imaging, etc. ? or whatever terms you want to use, I'm just curious what you didn't like about it, especially in relation to the HK.

 

[jacococo]

My tests

Hi SoundHound,

First of all, I would like to clarify that I don’t pretend Marantz is bad.
I am a msuciaan, composer who has a lot of experience in music material…but absolutely newbie in hi-fi and AVR material.
As a musician, I have a pair of Yamaha MS-P5 monitors that are very good….the purpose of a monitor is not to distort or embellish the sound at all so that I can hear exactly what was recorded.

In my research for a good AVR material, my priorities are:
1. No distorsion in the soun
2. have a good image: if the sax baryton was recorded on the left, I want to ear it on the left
I want to ear each instrument distinguishly even in a Big Band recording…with a good reproduction
3. I need to hear a warm profound quality sound, “like if the musicians were in the room”
4. Power without distorsion
5. Last criteria: possibilities for connecting home studio material in the future (for the moment I don’t even have a TV!)

So I went to a shop where they had 3 models connected to the same BOSE speakers (stereo):
1. Denon 1509
2. Harman KArdon AVR 132
3. Marantz 3001

I asked the girl to put my excellent CD of Ray Charles singing with Count Basie’s big band and to put all receivers in stereo mode without any change….all connected to BOSE (or was it B&W) speakers.
I didn’t verify her settings but the result was as follows:

Denon 1509 and Harman Kardon AVR 132 were quite similar in terms of quality (the sound was a little different but I think we can get close to each other by some balance and equalization settings)

Marantz was far below in terms of quality:

I could not distinguish the instruments…all coming from the middle, flat sound, no profond sound, nothing that attracted my ear…maybe it was just this specific Marantz model….or should I have played with the remote control…but the conclusion of this test was straightforward to my ear!
Another problem is that for an unknown reason Marantz in Israel is 2 times the price of Marantz in the us or in Europe…the same models!

So now …still hesitating between Denon and Harman Kardon.

Best Day!

 

[soundhound]

….all connected to BOSE (or was it B&W) speakers.

That's a pretty big difference.

But thanks for the review. I was considering a marantz, so I am curious to hear people's impressions of their SQ.

 

[daleB]

Hi soundhound, I have the the Marantz 4002. Before settling on the marantz here are the ones I demoed. Pioneer 1017,HK 154,and several new yamahas from the 4xx to the 6xx.While they all had their good and bad points, I found the Marantz to be the best of the bunch.It really made a big diff. in music and movies.One thing I really like is when connecting 3 different hdmi pieces of equipment to the avr there was no problem what so ever.I know this isn't much help, but like you, I couldn't fine much on marantz either before I bought mine.One other thing, when I said good points and bad points,I didn't mean with the 4002,it really has no bad points to my ears.

 

[soundhound]

Hi soundhound, I have the the Marantz 4002. Before settling on the marantz here are the ones I demoed. Pioneer 1017,HK 154,and several new yamahas from the 4xx to the 6xx.While they all had their good and bad points, I found the Marantz to be the best of the bunch.It really made a big diff. in music and movies.One thing I really like is when connecting 3 different hdmi pieces of equipment to the avr there was no problem what so ever.I know this isn't much help, but like you, I couldn't fine much on marantz either before I bought mine.One other thing, when I said good points and bad points,I didn't mean with the 4002,it really has no bad points to my ears.

thanks for sharing your impressions. I think the one jacococo listened to in the store must have been set up wrong. I can't believe it would sound so much like crap compared to the others. marantz just doesn't have that reputation.