Marantz 6003 vs 7002 vs Yamaha V1900

[Lordoftherings]

Hi polsol,

I know that you previously mentioned Paradigm as your speakers. I am very familiar with Paradigm speakers, I own several myself (and I'm from Canada too).

Can I ask you which Paradigm models you intend running with your new SR7002? And which subwoofer are you using?

By the way, I believe that you will find the Marantz SR7002 more open and spacious on the top end, with a more resolute bass, compared to your old Denon receiver.
Also more power and with the latest features of course.
Paradigm and Marantz should be a very good match.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[polsol]

Hi Bob,

I'm happy that my post has generated some enthusiasm
I've been a 'staring in the window' type audiphile for more years than I care to remember. Great hobby IMHO. Otherwise a long story ....
Got very involved in amp (pre and power) design years back. Could quote the performance of trannies and ICs off the cuff then
As for my Paradigms:
Fronts are Studio 40s
Centre CC590
Surrounds ADP 590
Twin Definitive Tech Pro sub 100s (no stock of Paradigm subs locally at the time).
Studio 40s and subs are fed direct from the amp (not sub out) and I use the X-over of the subs to set the frequency 'distribution'.
The ADP 590s are good but I miss the 'solid rear' when I had Paradigm Focus set up in as the rears. Hence why I'm looking at 7.1 now. Probably put the Studio 40's at the back and get new fronts - maybe floor standing. However, still think that the smaller 'bookshelf' speakers are better for stereo so might just go with a good small front and better sub(s).

Had bought a Definite centre but big timbre mismatch with the Stuio 40s (I had bought Definite 350s for my son that sound great with my old Cyrus 1 amp - hence why I bought the Definitive centre - also no Paradigm CC in store at the time ).

Paradigm are great speakers. Neutrality is a real eye opener.

BTW, I'm an industrial chemist from Cape Town (well sometimes when not working in Kuwait), English by birth and also lived in St Catherins and Hamilton as a kid (you might have heard of these places ). Never got out to BC but would have loved to.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi polsol,

Great speakers that you have, they will match very good with the Marantz SR7002. All your speakers are top notch performers.

Me I only have the Paradigm CC-300 as my center, the Titans as my side surrounds and the Atoms as my rear surrounds. I got two Definitive Technology subs, the Powerfield PF15TL and the PF15. My front are also Canadian made speakers, the Image Concept 200 (quite old, designed by Ian Paisley that use to work for Mirage and Energy speaker's company). Anyway I still love them after all these years, and they play clean down to 24hz. But they are a demanding load for an amplifier, they are 3.9 ohms pretty much all across the range, and they have a sensitivity of only 84.5 db. My Paradigm CC-300 center channel has a low impedance dip down to 2.8 ohms from about 80hz to 400hz. And all my surrounds dip to about 5 ohms.
No wimpy amp needs apply here.
When I play SACDs, I set all my speakers to full range.
For movies, I use a x-over of 80hz, but still run my main front as full range.
My center and my Titan surrounds can get down to about 35hz. My Atoms to about 60hz at the very lowest. But a x-over at 80hz is just fine for all of them, except my main fronts at full tilt. So my receiver gets a break here.
Anyway the loudest that I usually listen to is about 10db below reference level, usually a bit less, and sometimes more, like only few dbs below reference level, but for a very brief period of time, just when I fill to really kick *** with some demo scenes.

You are much better off than me with your Studio 40s (very nice speakers), your CC-590 and your ADP-590 dipoles.
Interesting that you also have Definitive Technology Pro Sub 1000s (two). Very interesting coincidence, indeed. (You type 100s, but I figure you meant the 1000s.)
You got a great speaker setup, you must have a good job over there in Kuwait, perhaps in the oil industry?

Your Studio 40s are just perfect as your main fronts, you don't really need more than that, in particular because they can play loud and clean with a great extension down to 30hz, plus you have two excellent subwoofers too. Your center can play very low too, down to 30hz. Wow! Impressive indeed. And all your speakers are of very high sensitivity (90 to 92db), and all rated at 8ohms.
You have very good taste on your speakers.

You're set man, the Marantz SR7002 will play sweet music to your rears, and will rock your world with movies.

You cannot ask any better than that. And watch out for those cute girls knocking at your door wanting to look at your new Marantz.

Cheers mate,

Bob

 

[polsol]

Hi bob,

Thanks for the positive vibes (sic). Went to get my SR 7002 today but the local agents had no stock
They promised supply from their other branch tomorrow so have to wait in agony!
Had asked Paradigm themselves for recommendations for their speakers but (understandable) silence from their end. So far excellent service from them IRO speaker recommendations. Mind you I would think that some sort of 'approved receiver list' would be good marketing/sales policy. Sort of like 'best by date'....... Especially considering that 'matching' speakers with amps is tricky at the best of times - no matter what one may think.
As an analogy, I have a Yammy receiver 'at home' which currently feeds Celestion speakers (only mains). Some time back I swopped the '79 strand' cables for a set of 'quality' twin flat core cables from an 'off-cuts/bargain' bin. As a scientist I didn't believe that these recommended (by the sales person) cables could make a difference but the sound was more neutral with a deeper bass - in reality I was floored. Just shows that there's much more than meets the eye (or specs for that matter) when matching systems - every element plays a part.
Thanks for the insight and help. Extremely appreciated. Also aghast at your knowledge of 'system matching' and 'parameters'! Might I ask of you're in an allied business?

 

[PENG]

Hi bob,

Thanks for the positive vibes (sic). Went to get my SR 7002 today but the local agents had no stock
They promised supply from their other branch tomorrow so have to wait in agony!
Had asked Paradigm themselves for recommendations for their speakers but (understandable) silence from their end. So far excellent service from them IRO speaker recommendations. Mind you I would think that some sort of 'approved receiver list' would be good marketing/sales policy. Sort of like 'best by date'....... Especially considering that 'matching' speakers with amps is tricky at the best of times - no matter what one may think.
As an analogy, I have a Yammy receiver 'at home' which currently feeds Celestion speakers (only mains). Some time back I swopped the '79 strand' cables for a set of 'quality' twin flat core cables from an 'off-cuts/bargain' bin. As a scientist I didn't believe that these recommended (by the sales person) cables could make a difference but the sound was more neutral with a deeper bass - in reality I was floored. Just shows that there's much more than meets the eye (or specs for that matter) when matching systems - every element plays a part.
Thanks for the insight and help. Extremely appreciated. Also aghast at your knowledge of 'system matching' and 'parameters'! Might I ask of you're in an allied business?

That can be true or false. I am sure you, as scientist, know that if the specs are not relevant or inaccurate (e.g. overstated) then matching speakers to amps should not be based such "specs". Otherwise, there are no tricks in matching speakers to amps based on believable (or better yet verifiable) specs of amps. Keep in mind typically even high end speakers introduce higher distortion than amplifiers do. If we have to worry about matching a so called warm amp to bright speakers etc., then there is no point to even worry about any objective tests or bench marking and we will all have to pick our equipment by trial and error. Audio electronic engineers should then be guided by those with keen ears and have their own preferred "sound", instead of simply trying to design amps that reproduce the input signal faithfully.

By the way if you can hear the difference between cables, unless the cables compared are long, not of the same material grade and/or gauge, and are subject to major electromagnetic interferences, you may want to do an A/B comparison if not a DBT.

Since you are a scientist I hope you understand my "engineering" view point and not be offended.

 

[polsol]

Hi Peng,

No, not offended at all and no, I didn't do A/B testing but I still heard a major difference in the cables. I don't want to believe it but have some faith in my ears not 'pulling a fast one' on me. The 'better' cables were designed for under carpet use (i.e. like FM aerial cable) and had this conductors in comparison to the 79 strand (which weighed a ton in comparison), so maybe it is something to do with RF?
It might be that amps today are more closely 'matched' than was the case previously when I did do A/B testing in audiophile shops and yes, there was a difference - but that was longer ago than I care to remember. Since then a lot more 'effort' has been put into power supplies too so that could also account for the differences.
Finally as a Scientist, I know that 1+1 = 2 'all' the time but there are still unexplained mysteries in the world (as QM indicates)

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi polsol,

My main interest is MUSIC. The job that I did for the longest time was Reforestation or if you like Treeplanting, which I did for 30 years. I planted over 2 million trees, and some of my trees are over 70 feet high.

I play guitar (all kinds), flute (all kinds), harmonica (all kinds), clarinette and a bit of piano too. And I have been playing music for over 40 years.
My forte is acoustic guitar (6 strings) and Alto flute (silver). I ain't bad either with an harmonica.

Right now, I'm concentrating on Audiophile music with the best recordings made by the best audio recording engineers on the planet.
My collection of Audiophile recordings is very extensive and very precious.
Most of the stuff that I purchase is mainly on Special orders, and I pay a big premium for that too.
I used to have a kind of my own recording studio at one point.

Because of the extreme physical and mental aspects of my Treeplanting job, I am now disabled after way too many injuries.
So now, all my time is dedicated to Music listening, Blu-Ray Movies watching and Audio forums.
I am also pretty good technically with electronics, I fix my own components, I build my own extras like equipment racks, TV stands, speaker stands, component shelfs made of choosen woods and acrylic, plus several other things related to audio and video.
I studied Arts at school, Art history, Cinema history, Painting, Sculpture, Photography, Graphic Design, Architecture, Philosophy, Chemistry, Latin, and a few others.
I did a ton of jobs, hospital, textile, tobacco, orcharding, golf, several manufacture industries, etc.
I also did several jobs, as a projectionist, a technical assistant on lights and sound in a big Theater, I am an avid photographer, I paint for many years, I sculpt all type of material from soft woods to hard rocks.
And according to my previous experience, and winning some big prizes too, I am an accomplished philosopher. Peace is important for development and Love for proper balance. I always search for the Truth, and believe in Dedication for the Good of Humanity.

I keep working with woods and acrylics, occasionally.

I can solder my electronics, replace parts, fix broken components, etc.
I am the repair man. I own lots of electronic equipment and many musical instruments too.
I also experiment a lot with room charateristics, treatments, speaker positioning, sound perfection, small details to always improve the sound.
I am a perfectionist at everything that I explore.

So, here you go, polsol, that's mainly who I am.

Regards,

Bob

 

[polsol]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your profile. Sorry to hear about your afflictions. Guess the injuries were mainly 'back' with the tree planting? However you seem to be kept fairly busy with your activities.
As for myself, artistically never got past drawing 'stick men'. Musically I have a steel string Yammy guitar which would be more useful if we get floods in the desert and I have to sit in the bath and paddle with it
Really appreciate the 'fine arts' and music though, probably because they are some of my worse attributes.
Hence my 'pre-occupation' with music amplification/electronics and getting the best SQ for money ratio.
Apart from this I'm a graduate Chemist/Geologist (the later being my first love when I was at University). Made Millions for the companies I've worked for but not myself which is why my 3 kids have been schooled about having their own business years ago. Daughter is a qualified Psychologist, eldest son does web design and the youngest is studying Enviro Science at University.
Spent most of my youth in sporting activities - Tennis, Soccer, Golf, Running, Cricket, Badmington, Table Tennis. Never played polo so if you ever see me on a horse you'll know why ....
Would have loved to have vistited BC. Must be stunning scenary. I have a Nikon D40X and a few lenses to boot. Waiting for a new FX Nikon that's affordable or a D300 replacement with 15 MP. Photography is my second favourite hobby after Hi-Fi.
Otherwise do some programming when at home (not much to do here.....).
Pretty much everything electronic is of interest. Got involved in electronics because my girl friend at the time's younger brother was into it. We also had an electronics lab in the Chemistry department for equipment repairs - so, had free use for 'experimentation'. Sort of stopped the experimentation when my FeCl3 managed to spill and etch the enamel surface of my parent's bath. Just as well I could run faster than my dad at the time!

The store phoned me about an hour ago. The SR7002 has arrived but I will wait until tomorrow to collect. Evening traffic here is a nightmare!

Otherwise, great to 'meet' you! and thanks for all your help!

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi polsol,

Very nice to meet you too. That is a great thing in these audio forums to meet people from all over the world that share the same hobbies that we do.

And yes my injuries were all Treeplanting related, mostly broken bones from head to toe. But don't feel sorry, because I don't, I did exactly what I wanted to do in my life, and even if I lost all my money (stock market), I feel very proud of what I accomplish, and that's the most important thing.

And now I can put all my energy on what I love probably best, Music.
So everything is running at full steam and with total peace and freedom.
And I wish the same for all people in the world.

Bests to you and your family,

Bob

 

[blue star]

sr6003 or sr7002

hi
i am planing to buy jamo thx d6 lcr and surround and a def tech sub.
the jamos are 4omhs speakers
the amp i have shortlisted is sr6003
i live in inida and the other amp in this price range are onkyo sr706 yamaha 863
to me the marantz looks more promising than the other two but will they be able to run my jamo 4 ohms speaker? the other option in sr7002 which is more 10w/channel (but the test result at 8 ohms say that they are same as 6003) might be better but in India they are around 200-300 usd more than sr 6003. the yamaha 1900 and 3800 are very expensive here. what do u guys suggest

 

[blue star]

does it make sense to spend 300 usd to upgrade to7002 from 6003? or will 6003 be able to handle the jamos same as 7002

 

[Lordoftherings]

hi
i am planing to buy jamo thx d6 lcr and surround and a def tech sub.
the jamos are 4omhs speakers
the amp i have shortlisted is sr6003
i live in inida and the other amp in this price range are onkyo sr706 yamaha 863
to me the marantz looks more promising than the other two but will they be able to run my jamo 4 ohms speaker? the other option in sr7002 which is more 10w/channel (but the test result at 8 ohms say that they are same as 6003) might be better but in India they are around 200-300 usd more than sr 6003. the yamaha 1900 and 3800 are very expensive here. what do u guys suggest

Hi blue star,

Your Marantz SR6003 choice is excellent, go for it. It will do just fine with your Jamo D 6LCR speakers, no sweat. They are THX Ultra certified, so they will be cross at 80hz, and your Definitive Technology sub will take over from 80hz and below.
From all the receivers that you mentioned, the Marantz SR6003 is your best choice, definitively, without a doubt.

Cheers to you in India,

Bob

 

[blue star]

thank you so much

 

[Lordoftherings]

You are very welcome.

 

[blue star]

just checked your pm
you are very kind. thank you so much
will defnetaily say hi to everyone in india from your side

i have a another query. in my budget i have shortlisted these two subs
i already have open a another thred in the subwoofer forum. dont want to hijack this thread and make it a subwoofer thread

if i buy the jamo i will buy the quad 11l2 to for music as the jamos are not very good at music

so i need a sub which is musical and as well and do the double duties of movies and live up tp the jamo d6

pls check he thread
and let me know what you think

 

[Lordoftherings]

does it make sense to spend 300 usd to upgrade to7002 from 6003? or will 6003 be able to handle the jamos same as 7002

I miss that from before.

1. NO, it does make no sense to spend $300 usd more to get the 7002.

2. YES, the 6003 will be able to handle the Jamos, perhaps even better than the 7002. Hard to believe, but true (according to the lab tests).

 

[Lordoftherings]

A/V receiver related questions & answers.

i have a another query. in my budget i have shortlisted these two subs
i already have open a another thred in the subwoofer forum. dont want to hijack this thread and make it a subwoofer thread

if i buy the jamo i will buy the quad 11l2 to for music as the jamos are not very good at music

so i need a sub which is musical and as well and do the double duties of movies and live up tp the jamo d6

pls check he thread
and let me know what you think

1. Not much hijacking here at Audioholics to be quite frank with you, and nobody's going to put you in jail for that either.

2. You did mentioned Def. Tech. for sub... Now you mention Jamo speakers with a pair of Quad speakers? Why mix? Why not stay with the same brand of speaker all around? When a speaker is good a reproducing Music, it is also good at reproducing Movie soundtrack.

3. What brand of subs do they sell in India?

* You can answer here, as it is related to your Marantz SR6003 A/V receiver.

Bob

 

[blue star]

ok
i will elaborate what i am going thru and what is adding to my confusion

i have 16ft by 17ft entertainment room which will be used as a home theatre room
usage will be 75%movies 25% music
its not treated but has a big sofa a recliner and some furniture and a carpet floor

equipment

oppo 981
hdx nmt
panny ax200 projector
and now thanks to you marantz sr6003

i heard quite a few speaker systems
shortlisted 3

dali ikon6 5.1
quad 22l2 5.1
and then the jamo d6 thx

my impression

quad 22l2

i love the quad 22l2 for music i think they are awesome but the l2 centre was not up top the mark it was heavy and not that clear although the dealer was saying its because of the amp he was running it with which was a old denon avr 2106 but i have read in some forums that the l2 centre is the weakling in the quad setup. i thought once i get my 6003 i can take it there and audtion it with them
as the centre channel is important to me cuz its the main thing in movies,which is the my main usage

dali ikon 6 5.1

these i thought were decent for movies and decent for music
nither here nor there sort of situation

jamo d6

these i thought were AMAZING for movies specially the centre speaker was strong, the vocal were clear its big the same size of the left and right so has a lot of clarity and authority .it gave the closet desired effect as i was sitting in a movie hall
BUT
as impressive they are in movie mode the oppostie is in the streo mode they sound horrible for music
flat, raw no detailing just too raw basically

so i have been thinking and the best thing i thought was to buy the jamo d6 lcr and surround for ht use and buy quad 11l2 bookshelf just for music so basically i have everthing covered

what do u suggest?what should i do?

have u heard any of them if yes what is ure opinion


the other sub in that price range is wharfedale sw150 its a award winning sub but might be underpowered as its only 150w and might not be able to fill the room and the sub has to be good enough as both the jamo and the quad are bookshelf so the sub will have to come to play

regards

 

[blue star]

just checked another sub which is klipsch rw 10d. its 180$ expensive than the other ones . but if its worth the upgrade as in terms of sound and price. then i can look into stretching my budget

regards

 

[Lordoftherings]

My take.

Hi blue star,

Ok, I see your reasoning on the speakers. That's fine, you did listen to them and made a choice based on substancial evidence. It is smart indeed.
So, on this, you know best; then do pick the ones that actually sounds best to you. Nobody else can tell you this.
And no, I did not have the chance to personally listen to them.

Now, for the sub: Considering that your room is 16 by 17 feet, I went to your post in the sub's thread, and I did pick my choice, which was the Boston Acoustics HPS10HOMIST. That was between it and the Def. Tech. ProSub 800.
Adding the Klipsch RW-10d (for $180 more), and the Wharfedale SW150; I would still pick the Boston Acoustics HPS10HOMIST at about $180 less that the Klipsch.
Still a better value in my book. Go have a look at a couple links that I give you in your original post from the Subw. thread.
Because your room is fairly sized, you don't want to go with a less than 10" driver. So the final choice between these four subwoofers is betwen the Boston Acoustics one and the Klipsch one. If you have a chance to listen to both of them, that will help you to make the final choice with a consideration as to their price difference. And even if the Klipsch has DCS digital controls as an extra feature, it is rendered kind of moot, because of Audyssey MultEQ in your Marantz SR6003, which will already apply some nice digital filtration and EQ to your sub. In the end, with the Klipsch, you are paying more for a useless feature in your case. And according to Audyssey, you should not need any digital EQ from the sub itself.
Then my take is still with the Boston Acoustics sub.

So, what do you think? Is this makes any sense to you at all?

Regards,

Bob