Looking for DIY 2-way stereo speakers to upgrade Totem Hawk Speakers

[longinc]

Hello,

I am looking to replace my 2-way Totem Hawk stereo speakers. I am looking for a significant step up in sound quality. I've been told, to get that step up from where I am, I would need to spend $5-10K for a new set of speakers (e.g. Chapman Audio T-8). Unfortunately, this is out of my budget. Hence i was thinking of building something myself and getting some DIY fun out of it. Also, my impression is that DIY will get me a whole lot more high end audiophile sound quality for the buck.

My current audio set up is as follows:

1. Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Turntable with Benz Micro Wood Body SM Cartridge - i listen most of the time to my analog source
2. Digital Source: Rega Jupiter CD player
3. Integrated Amplifier: Cary SLI-80 Signature tube amplifier
4. Cables: Audience Au-24 "e" interconnects, speaker cables, and jumpers
5. Speakers: Totem Hawk (by Totem Acoustics)

I am looking for recommendations for a DIY speaker design or kit that would fit what i am looking for. The Totem Hawks are a floor standing column speaker design. I recently moved to a new place and my listening room is much smaller than what it used to be, and so am considering a monitor design that would work well in a small room. My room is about 13 ft by 13 ft. If a floor standing tower would work too, i am open to that as well.

My budget is ~1K. But, I'm new to the DIY speaker hobby. If you think i need to bump that budget up some more to approximate the sound quality of $5k-10K speakers, then let me know and I will adjust accordingly. Also, since I'm a newbie, any recommendations on books to read and tools to get, and maybe even a starter DIY speaker kit to practice on first before working on a more expensive project (lest i mess things up I am all ears!

I listen mostly to vocals, smooth jazz, violin, organ. I am not into super hard rock music so getting the sound super loud is not important to me. But i do want deep and tight bass for the instruments that go down deep. And i want a set of speakers that is not bright (and pleasing to the ear even after listening for a couple of hours). Precise imaging, musicality, and the ability to expose the inner details and subtleties in the music are all high on my list of desires

Any advice and recommendation is much appreciated. And i apologize if this topic has been addressed previously - kindly point me to the appropriate thread if you can.

Thanks!!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello,

I am looking to replace my 2-way Totem Hawk stereo speakers. I am looking for a significant step up in sound quality. I've been told, to get that step up from where I am, I would need to spend $5-10K for a new set of speakers (e.g. Chapman Audio T-8). Unfortunately, this is out of my budget. Hence i was thinking of building something myself and getting some DIY fun out of it. Also, my impression is that DIY will get me a whole lot more high end audiophile sound quality for the buck.

My current audio set up is as follows:

1. Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Turntable with Benz Micro Wood Body SM Cartridge - i listen most of the time to my analog source
2. Digital Source: Rega Jupiter CD player
3. Integrated Amplifier: Cary SLI-80 Signature tube amplifier
4. Cables: Audience Au-24 "e" interconnects, speaker cables, and jumpers
5. Speakers: Totem Hawk (by Totem Acoustics)

I am looking for recommendations for a DIY speaker design or kit that would fit what i am looking for. The Totem Hawks are a floor standing column speaker design. I recently moved to a new place and my listening room is much smaller than what it used to be, and so am considering a monitor design that would work well in a small room. My room is about 13 ft by 13 ft. If a floor standing tower would work too, i am open to that as well.

My budget is ~1K. But, I'm new to the DIY speaker hobby. If you think i need to bump that budget up some more to approximate the sound quality of $5k-10K speakers, then let me know and I will adjust accordingly. Also, since I'm a newbie, any recommendations on books to read and tools to get, and maybe even a starter DIY speaker kit to practice on first before working on a more expensive project (lest i mess things up I am all ears!

I listen mostly to vocals, smooth jazz, violin, organ. I am not into super hard rock music so getting the sound super loud is not important to me. But i do want deep and tight bass for the instruments that go down deep. And i want a set of speakers that is not bright (and pleasing to the ear even after listening for a couple of hours). Precise imaging, musicality, and the ability to expose the inner details and subtleties in the music are all high on my list of desires

Any advice and recommendation is much appreciated. And i apologize if this topic has been addressed previously - kindly point me to the appropriate thread if you can.

Thanks!!

In your situation, you need to add to your budget.

For you I would recommend the Thor kit unreservedly.

If you insist on running tubes you need fairly sensitive speakers, with a fairly flat impedance curve.

I should point out that all except highly efficient small full range horn deigns are usually underpowered. Tube amps pretty much always result in under powering. The dynamic range of music is huge, and even in a small room more power is required than most people imagine.

 

[lsiberian]

There are a lot of options out there, but if you don't have the tools and woodworking experience you are better off buying speakers. Building speakers from the ground up always costs more than people let on. You have to buy materials, tools, bits, glue, first aid kit and other hidden costs that you don't yet understand. I would suggest you take a simple low cost project on first before attempting a high cost speaker. If you don't have a sub. I would suggest you build one of those before a speaker because they are a great start.

Get rid of the idea that DIY is cheaper than commercial operations. It can be, but only if you already have the tools, experience, and time to spare. If you don't know how to use tools you should definitely take on some easier projects first. Shelves are a great first project.

You can build better speakers with the DIY approach, but don't take this on as a way to save money. It's simply not practical.

 

[Swerd]

I am looking to replace my 2-way Totem Hawk stereo speakers. I am looking for a significant step up in sound quality.

I am looking for recommendations for a DIY speaker design or kit that would fit what i am looking for. The Totem Hawks are a floor standing column speaker design. I recently moved to a new place and my listening room is much smaller than what it used to be, and so am considering a monitor design that would work well in a small room. My room is about 13 ft by 13 ft. If a floor standing tower would work too, i am open to that as well.

I listen mostly to vocals, smooth jazz, violin, organ. I am not into super hard rock music so getting the sound super loud is not important to me. But i do want deep and tight bass for the instruments that go down deep. And i want a set of speakers that is not bright (and pleasing to the ear even after listening for a couple of hours). Precise imaging, musicality, and the ability to expose the inner details and subtleties in the music are all high on my list of desires

My budget is ~1K.

Totem Hawks are not bad speakers. It's been some time since I heard them, but I remember liking them. Totem uses quality drivers and good construction. I quoted (above) what you said you are looking for, but I'm not sure what it is about your Hawks that you want to improve on.

Now that you have a smaller room, are you looking for larger or smaller speakers? I would guess that the Hawks might be fine in a smaller room. It's hard to imagine towers (or standmounted speakers) with a smaller footprint than the Hawks.

You might try building a kit. Look at these from Madisound. You can get most of them with premade cabinets. Without a better understanding of what you are looking for, it would be hard to recommend anything. But you can get an idea of kit prices. In general, drivers made by Seas or Scan-Speak are among the best available.

Also, since I'm a newbie, any recommendations on books to read and tools to get, and maybe even a starter DIY speaker kit to practice on first before working on a more expensive project (lest i mess things up I am all ears!

There are two books on DIY speakers that might be good. Both books do a good job explaining what features of speaker design actually matter. Of those two, I prefer Speaker Building 201 by Ray Alden. It is better written and organized.

 

[GranteedEV]

Also, since I'm a newbie, any recommendations on books to read and tools to get, and maybe even a starter DIY speaker kit to practice on first before working on a more expensive project (lest i mess things up I am all ears!

I know Swerd is not a fan of it, but I recommend Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Vance Dickason.

Since we`re looking at something your tubes can drive without severely altering the 'sound' of the speaker, it's really difficult. I'd feel more comfortable suggesting kits if you had even a mid-fi receiver than tubes. Speakers that are designed to sound right with a tube amp need, at the very least, impedance flattening circuits, careful driver selection, and higher sensitivity than average.


The best recommendation I can give is the 2.5 way Zaph ZA5.5tt kit. With the series-parallel nature, it`s well suited to tube amps and should sound very high end, although of course you`d get deeper/louder bass with a 3-way with more surface area and excursion:

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8652

Now, if you want the performance of a 5-10k speaker, why not the 12 inch woofer version of this design:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008_DTQWT.htm

No, it`s not a 2-way, it`s a true 3-way with dual 10 or 12 inch woofers on the backside loading a large stuffed pipe for deep, loud bass, and a nonresonant midrange.

What it is however is

-Tube Compliant. 99% of DIY reference systems out there would ask you to scrap your tubes and make the shift to true, bi or tri amplified solid state systems. At 95db and a resistive 8 ohm impedance, it`s one of the only speakers out there that you can feel comfortable with knowing your tube amps are not ruining the speaker`s sound.
-Designed by a guy who definitely knows a thing or two about speaker design.
-Uses an excellent tweeter and midrange combination with a custom waveguide for optimal power response.
-A true high end design.


If you're willing to spend more, drop the tubes for a bi-amplified solid state setup with a good 150+ watts per amp channel, then I recommend this:

http://www.musicanddesign.com/NaO_NoteDetails.html

 

[lsiberian]

http://www.musicanddesign.com/NaO_NoteDetails.html

That project is fascinating.

 

[longinc]

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for your quick replies, insightful comments, and information. You've gaven me some good info to chew on, and here's my initial response to some of your comments/questions:

1. On the cost front, i see the hidden/fixed costs (tools, time etc etc) of DIY. Unless i'm planning to build a few speakers, the hidden costs just doesn't pencil out over time. So point taken on that one. Thus, I was hoping a kit might be the way to go because it sounds much easier (i think/hope) than building a speaker from scratch, and i because it requires mostly assembly work, i might not need that many tools - pls correct me if i'm sorely mistaken?

2. The Totem Hawks are very nice. But, like alot of audiophiles, there's always that nagging itch that one can always do better, and there's quite a bit of fun in trying out new components So far, I've upgraded my source, amp, cables over the past year, and at this time, am feeling the speakers are the ones "holding" the rest of the system back. When i heard the Chapman Audio T8's (driven with similar source and amp) at my local HIFI store, it did much better on the following dimensions:
- it sounded less bright, and it was fuller and warmer
- broader and deeper sound stage
- it really felt like the performers were right there in front of you - it was probably a function of better image precision and greater expression of inner detail that the Totem Hawks did not have. Vocals and instruments just sounded more "real", "rich" and "full"
- much deeper and tighter bass
(FYI - the T8's are ~$9k a pair and the Hawks are ~$3k a pair)

So, there's nothing awefully wrong about the Totem's, but I'm just looking for that next level of audiophile nirvana

3. On the room situation. My listening area has been relegated to the study room (can't change that - directive from my boss/wife). The room size is approx 12 by 12 ft. So am looking for a speaker that would work in that room size, but yet give the performance "pop" i am looking for. Now, we may move in a year or 2, and i might get a bigger room to work with, so ideally, this speaker can also "grow" into a larger space if needed to.

4. On tube amplification, i really like the sound of tubes, and so i am unlikely to move away from that in the near future. My Cary's can spit out 80W per channel in ultra-linear mode and 40W in triode mode. Triode mode is preferred (sounds better), so I have 40W per channel to work with....i know, its not alot...FYI, the T8's are 89db sensitivity

So, given the above info, if you think you will point me differently (from what you've already suggested), do let me know.

Again, thanks for all your help and time in showing me the way!!

 

[GranteedEV]

1. On the cost front, i see the hidden/fixed costs (tools, time etc etc) of DIY. Unless i'm planning to build a few speakers, the hidden costs just doesn't pencil out over time. So point taken on that one. Thus, I was hoping a kit might be the way to go because it sounds much easier (i think/hope) than building a speaker from scratch, and i because it requires mostly assembly work, i might not need that many tools - pls correct me if i'm sorely mistaken?

Designing requires measurement equipment, but assembly still requires you to build the cabinets (and for a high end speaker, build them extensively), solder together the crossover, and finish appropriately. Things like a router, a table saw, many clamps, are things you should start your list with. Most of the things you need are things you only realize you need once you actually need them... lol.

2. The Totem Hawks are very nice. But, like alot of audiophiles, there's always that nagging itch that one can always do better, and there's quite a bit of fun in trying out new components So far, I've upgraded my source, amp, cables over the past year, and at this time, am feeling the speakers are the ones "holding" the rest of the system back.

That's because 90% of the time, the speakers are the only thing holding the system back. Digital Source and Cables are a complete and total non-factor as they all sound the same whether it cost you $5000 or $20. Your amps are the only concern here as they are the "other 10% of the time". Chances are, the tubes may even be the reason your Totem Hawks sound bright (because tubes interact with reactive loads poorly). I would bet my money that you're not getting the "true" sound of the Totem Hawks. It's not so much about watts as it is about amp-speaker interaction.

4. On tube amplification, i really like the sound of tubes, and so i am unlikely to move away from that in the near future. My Cary's can spit out 80W per channel in ultra-linear mode and 40W in triode mode. Triode mode is preferred (sounds better), so I have 40W per channel to work with....i know, its not alot...FYI, the T8's are 89db sensitivity

The problem with tubes is fundamental. It's partially about power and partially about the simple fact that anything they're doing to the sound is inherently a negative - they're effectively altering the signal passing through them. Tubes in any system will always be a huge bottleneck. They're effectively the "Rose-colored glasses" of audiophiles. Most of the time when people say they "prefer the tube sound" it's because they "prefer" "not the sound of their speakers".

So, given the above info, if you think you will point me differently (from what you've already suggested), do let me know.

If you want the best perfomance, sell the pricey digital source, cables, and tubes (or "downgrade" according to "audiophiles") in order to fund a true reference system with great solid state amplification (which will let you build your system around the sound of the speakers, not a RANDOM sound created by the tube interaction with said speakers) and ordinary cables and ordinary source (which will sound identical). Besides that I stick with my previous post.

There's some excellent Class A, Class AB, and Class D amplifiers on the market which have no issues with "Solid State Grain" or any of the stuff you hear about in audio magazines. Just pure transparent performance (which is what you want out of an amplifier, any anything else in a total sound system). Any time you've got pieces compromising transparency, you've thrown away "the fundamentals" and you're stuck in a guessing game. There's a few excellent speakers out there which can "survive" tubes but they're so few and far between. You're just limiting your options with tubes if you want truly great sound.

 

[Swerd]

The Totem Hawks are very nice. But, like alot of audiophiles, there's always that nagging itch that one can always do better, and there's quite a bit of fun in trying out new components So far, I've upgraded my source, amp, cables over the past year, and at this time, am feeling the speakers are the ones "holding" the rest of the system back. When i heard the Chapman Audio T8's (driven with similar source and amp) at my local HIFI store, it did much better on the following dimensions:
- it sounded less bright, and it was fuller and warmer
- broader and deeper sound stage
- it really felt like the performers were right there in front of you - it was probably a function of better image precision and greater expression of inner detail that the Totem Hawks did not have. Vocals and instruments just sounded more "real", "rich" and "full"
- much deeper and tighter bass
(FYI - the T8's are ~$9k a pair and the Hawks are ~$3k a pair)

OK, you got me curious. I looked up the Chapman T-8 because I've never heard of it. It definitely is not a small speaker. It's a 3-way with a 10" ported woofer, what looks to be a Scan-Speak revelator 5.5" midrange, and a 1" fabric dome tweeter. The maker claims a sensitivity of 89 dB, and rates it at 4 ohms. If it's impedance curve is relatively flat, it might be driven by a small amp like you have, but, as a guess, it will probably do much better with 150 to 200 watts. Personally, I think a speaker that size might overwhelm a room as small as you described.

The crossover points are 120 Hz and 4500 Hz, meaning that you primarily hear the midrange driver. The mid-to-tweeter crossover point is high, well above the range where we hear most clearly. That can be both good and bad, good that we won't readily hear any problems that might be in the crossover, but bad because at 4500 Hz the 5.5" midrange driver will be beaming, creating narrow dispersion. Typically, a midrange that size will begin having a narrower dispersion above the 2500-3000 Hz range. Still, Scan-Speak revelators are among the best drivers available, and their detailed low-distortion sound alone may account for why you liked them so much.

I am a bit troubled by the woofer-to-mid crossover point at a very low 120 Hz. For a passive crossover, that creates some electrical problems that are hard to solve without great and uneccessary expense. And I don't see that there is any benefit by choosing 120 Hz because it is sufficiently "low to avoid audibility". A better solution might be a cross point at roughly 400 Hz, but I'm not sure if that 10" woofer can do that without break up noise. Measurements would answer those questions, but none are provided. At that price, I would expect to find a 10" woofer that is very well behaved up to a 400 Hz crossover point. Enough cheap speculation - I haven't heard them, and you have.

So on to a kit suggestion. (Caveat: I have not heard this design.) Only because you seem to like the Scan-Speak revelator, have a good look at the Zaph/Audio ZRT 2-way. With a pre-built cabinet it costs significantly less that the Chapman. Zaph (John Krutke) is a DIY speaker designer with an excellent reputation. If Madisound sells this design, I find it easy to recommend without hearing it. Zaph's website has a much more detailed explanation of the ZRT design. Read it and see what goes into a well-designed speaker. Zaph spares little detail in his explanations .

 

[GranteedEV]

And I don't see that there is any benefit by choosing 120 Hz because it is sufficiently "low to avoid audibility". A better solution might be a cross point at roughly 400 Hz

I think the two reasons for a 120hz crossover would be

A) The woofer is used at least partially for BSC - that's why a very shallow slope is used to low pass it.
B) The 10" woofer would not work in that particular cabinet facing forward, so it's side firing. It may be easier to localize with a higher crossover point.

However I agree with you; such a low crossover point should really likely be actively bi-amped. A higher crossover point would also improve speaker dynamics.

I do think Zaph's ZA5.5tt will be just excellent though, btw. It uses a low distortion 5" woofer for wide horizontal dispersion, and four of them for low excursion and high sensitivity and a relatively flat impedance. The overall design is optimal for a tube and more affordable IMO.

 

[lsiberian]

1. On the cost front, i see the hidden/fixed costs (tools, time etc etc) of DIY. Unless i'm planning to build a few speakers, the hidden costs just doesn't pencil out over time. So point taken on that one. Thus, I was hoping a kit might be the way to go because it sounds much easier (i think/hope) than building a speaker from scratch, and i because it requires mostly assembly work, i might not need that many tools - pls correct me if i'm sorely mistaken?

Tool wise

For cutting
You will want a 7 1/4" circular saw or table saw with a very good plywood blade(Forrest and Freud are good bets). I prefer a circular saw with a straight edge for sizing up speaker material.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25134&filter=straight edge is the straight edge I use and my saw is a Bosch cs10 equipped with a Forrest Woodworker blade. The self clamping guide makes short work of setting up cuts I don't recommend trying to use c clamps and a straight piece of wood, because they have the tendency to get off ever so slightly. In speaker building precision is important for air tight builds.

For routing I use a Bosch1617 plunge router. I've not found a single use for the fixed base, but it came with it anyway. I use the router to flush and cut the driver location. I also use it to flush trim edges on the speaker boxes.

For the flush trim router bit I use a 1/2" 2 straight flute amana bit, For circle cutting I use a 1/4" spiral upcut diablo bit and a jasper jig.

A drill is necessary to use the jig and drill the holes for your speaker screws and binding posts.

I use corner clamps and bar clamps to glue up, but you can also use screws and corner clamps. For you I'd suggest that method since it saves you from buying big clamps. Use Titebond original or Elmer's wood glue since you can get it on your hands and simply wash it off. Glue up is probably the biggest pain for me. Just stuff to be looking out for.

I love building speakers so for me it's not about the money. You sound like a tinkerer. If you are one you will love this hobby.

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, you got me curious. I looked up the Chapman T-8 because I've never heard of it. It definitely is not a small speaker. It's a 3-way with a 10" ported woofer, what looks to be a Scan-Speak revelator 5.5" midrange, and a 1" fabric dome tweeter. The maker claims a sensitivity of 89 dB, and rates it at 4 ohms. If it's impedance curve is relatively flat, it might be driven by a small amp like you have, but, as a guess, it will probably do much better with 150 to 200 watts. Personally, I think a speaker that size might overwhelm a room as small as you described.

The crossover points are 120 Hz and 4500 Hz, meaning that you primarily hear the midrange driver. The mid-to-tweeter crossover point is high, well above the range where we hear most clearly. That can be both good and bad, good that we won't readily hear any problems that might be in the crossover, but bad because at 4500 Hz the 5.5" midrange driver will be beaming, creating narrow dispersion. Typically, a midrange that size will begin having a narrower dispersion above the 2500-3000 Hz range. Still, Scan-Speak revelators are among the best drivers available, and their detailed low-distortion sound alone may account for why you liked them so much.

I am a bit troubled by the woofer-to-mid crossover point at a very low 120 Hz. For a passive crossover, that creates some electrical problems that are hard to solve without great and uneccessary expense. And I don't see that there is any benefit by choosing 120 Hz because it is sufficiently "low to avoid audibility". A better solution might be a cross point at roughly 400 Hz, but I'm not sure if that 10" woofer can do that without break up noise. Measurements would answer those questions, but none are provided. At that price, I would expect to find a 10" woofer that is very well behaved up to a 400 Hz crossover point. Enough cheap speculation - I haven't heard them, and you have.

So on to a kit suggestion. (Caveat: I have not heard this design.) Only because you seem to like the Scan-Speak revelator, have a good look at the Zaph/Audio ZRT 2-way. With a pre-built cabinet it costs significantly less that the Chapman. Zaph (John Krutke) is a DIY speaker designer with an excellent reputation. If Madisound sells this design, I find it easy to recommend without hearing it. Zaph's website has a much more detailed explanation of the ZRT design. Read it and see what goes into a well-designed speaker. Zaph spares little detail in his explanations .

This is the mid in the Chapman.

The break up is only partially controlled by the ribs. This driver is starting to break up at 1 kHz. There is a broad peak from 1 to 4 kHz. This would be controllable in the crossover, however beaming will start at 1 kHz and be severe by 3 kHz. So this should be crossed by 3 kHz not 4.5 kHz.

This driver will have a struggle making it to 120 Hz. In fact they tuned the mid range enclosure with a vent! You can see from the graphs that it needs to crossover above 300 Hz and not 120 Hz.

The 120 Hz crossover is first order, so the woofer will not be down 24 db until 960 Hz and so the woofer will be doing BSC for the mid. When this is done I don't like side firing woofers.

I'm pretty sure this 10" woofer is by Scanspeak and would make it out to 900 Hz plus.

I would bet the impedance is in the three ohm range from 150 to 1kHz region, where there will be a lot of overlap between the four ohm mid and six ohm woofer.

I think the Thor design would work very well for him, and they work very well in a small room.

I know the Totems he has and I think they are a weedy thin miserable speaker.

He would find the Thors a huge step up, and have a well defined deep bass with no blooming. That is very important in a small room.

 

[GranteedEV]

Come to think of it, the Hawks also use the revelator, don't they?

I think the Thor design would work very well for him, and they work very well in a small room.

I know you use one of those W26 excel woofers for BSC, but otherwise how similar is your MTM crossover for the W18s and Millenium to Joe D'appolito's? And how does his line design compare with your line for the same drivers? I've read a few times that the line recommended for the Thor is actually shorter than the original design was supposed to be... how much truth is there to this?

That project is fascinating.

I just love many things about it.

Since it is a dipole, early reflections are somewhat attenuated by the radiation pattern. It is also constant directivity in almost the entire audible passband, which you definitely won't get with something like that Chapman speaker being discussed here.

Since there's no enclosure, there is no difficult to build CLD concrete box to stop from resonating and coloring the sound. ;P

Since it uses a U-Frame woofer, it will likely have sweet bass quality in terms of loading the room with a semi cardioid behavior.

Since it's a hybrid active speaker, there's no resistive attenuation (any "L-pads" are done in the active crossover) but you only need four amp channels instead of the ten you would need for a fully active speaker.

If I could change anything I might use some cool high priced top end drivers like Accuton 3", RAAL Ribbon, etc but those drivers are by no means slouches and the way John K got such sweet horizontal polars out of it is awesome.

 

[longinc]

Granteed EV - got your PM but can't reply (apparently) cos i don't have enough posts to be able to send messages. Anyways, I live in the greater Seattle, WA area. SO if you know any DIYer here who will let me audition their systems, please let me know. You mentioned that you know of some speakers that that might survive a tube amp. Can you tell me which ones? And, what are some of the Class A, Class AB, and Class D amps that you think are worth looking at? (you are getting me curious...).

Isiberian - thanks for all the tools and set up recommendations!

Swerd - thanks for looking into the Chapman and breaking it down and creating a nice discussion going on the technicalities - i am now inspired to go pick up the book you recommended and bone up on some of the technicalities to keep up with everyone here, and so i can also appreciate what truly matters in speaker design and what is pure "marketing" premium/markup.

ALL- a general question: if most of the speaker manufacturers out there (inc the high end ones e.g. Chapman) are using off the shelf components, then what is their value add/differentiator (i.e. secret sauce).....is it in the cross over and cabinet designs? or are they taking off the shelf components and further tweaking them to customize them? sounds like one is paying alot just to get "branded" speakers.....

- i can see myself working on the electricals and electronics, but don't really see myself doing the wood work. Do you see any big downside if i outsource the cabinet build (assuming i already have the design) to say a professional carpenter (or wood worker) who will probably do it better and faster than i can?

Thanks!!

 

[GranteedEV]

And, what are some of the Class A, Class AB, and Class D amps that you think are worth looking at? (you are getting me curious...).

Anything solid state with a good near-doubling of power into 4 ohms, low high order harmonic distortion and extremely low output impedance is recommended. Even if you don't listen loud, you can control sound levels at the volume knob. What you don't want to do is hold your system's capabilities back with high output impedance or clipping amps.

When you start with a good beefy solid state amp you can basically forget the amp and focus on things that matter. When you start with a tube, it's like trying to drive a lambho on a dirt road in the boondocks... it's not what 99% of good speakers are designed for!


Yamaha
Parasound
Emotiva XPA ATI
Quad
Crest
Face Audio

My preference would probably be some DIY Hypex UcD400 or UcD700 modules:

https://www.hypexshop.com/

if most of the speaker manufacturers out there (inc the high end ones e.g. Chapman) are using off the shelf components, then what is their value add/differentiator (i.e. secret sauce).....is it in the cross over and cabinet designs? or are they taking off the shelf components and further tweaking them to customize them? sounds like one is paying alot just to get "branded" speakers.....

Parts are parts, it's all in how you implement them. Crossover and Cabinet designs vary significantly for vastly different voicings. The best speakers, no matter who the designer, tend to be more similar than not, and mostly vary in their presentation rather than in their timbre, because they strive for accuracy.

- i can see myself working on the electricals and electronics, but don't really see myself doing the wood work. Do you see any big downside if i outsource the cabinet build (assuming i already have the design) to say a professional carpenter (or wood worker) who will probably do it better and faster than i can?

Cabinet build will really raise the cost, especially if it's a well braced cabinet with appropriate damping and finish.

In your general area, the person I would get to do box construction would be Nathan Funk.

http://www.funkywaves.net/

At the point of getting someone else to do your cabinet for you, though, perhaps you may as well just ultimately go with commercial speakers...

 

[lsiberian]

Isiberian - thanks for all the tools and set up recommendations!

It's actually Lsiberian if you ever want to pm me. There will be other things down the line you will want to add, but if you decide to go forward then I'll be happy to help you build up a list of items. Let's see if this is a direction your really want to go first.

The Thor TLs are among the best DIY speaker designs out there, but I am not a fan of the driver prices. That would be my knock on the Madisound version.

I'm not sure if Mark had other more reasonable options for drivers, but if you have the funds and want a sure thing. It's an option.

I am have not looked at a 2-way in a long time honestly because I am focused on a 3-way(not a task appropriate for a beginner)

I would recommend the Zaph|Audio ZA5.3 MTM, Pair. They are a very good speaker for the beginner and if you find it to your liking it will save you a lot on the Thor's.

 

[GranteedEV]

I would recommend the Zaph|Audio ZA5.3 MTM, Pair.

Here is what Zaph says about the ZA5.3

This MTM design is a solid 4 ohm system with the additional woofer increasing the maximum output level and lowering distortion. Impedance drops to 3.8 ohms in the midbass

On the other hand, here's what he says about the ZA5.5tt

This system is 89 sensitive anechoic with 1 watt input and a solid 8 ohm nominal impedance, drooping to about 5 ohms for a small range between 2 and 3 kHz. There are no wild impedance swings and this system should be just fine for any amplifier, including tube amps.

 

[GranteedEV]

Here's the opinion of one of the very few people who has built the ZA5.5tt

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/189657-building-zaph-audio-za5-5tt-mmtmm-2-5-way-vertical-array.html

 

[tomito]

Ekta Grande

I always dreamed with these speaker, it is way too expensive to build but it looks awesome!
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ektagrande.htm
I can't comment how good this speaker sound because i haven't heard it, but if I have the time and money, thats the speaker for me.

Tom

 

[Golden Ears]

To the OP.


I just upgraded to Chapman T-8MKII and T9MKII in my living room. Selling both sets of T-8's that replaced them. You probably got something by now, but if you know anyone let me know.


949-243-4377 in Newport Beach CA. But I can ship.

I love the Chapman's (for me it let me put away my humongous planars) what made you pick them?