Looking for a pre amp

[Chrisb28]

I currently own a Yamaha power amplifier, model number MX-1000 and Klipsch KLF-10 Speakers.The speakers impedance is 8 Ohms and the Watts are 150. Im searching for a good pre-amplifier that would sound good with these components. I will be using them strictly for music not surround sound.If anyone has good suggestions I would appreciate it.

 

[PENG]

I currently own a Yamaha power amplifier, model number MX-1000 and Klipsch KLF-10 Speakers.The speakers impedance is 8 Ohms and the Watts are 150. Im searching for a good pre-amplifier that would sound good with these components. I will be using them strictly for music not surround sound.If anyone has good suggestions I would appreciate it.

I think the practical truth is that any good quality preamps such some older models of Adcom, Bryston, Parasound, Marantz, McIntosh will do a good job for you. I have a pair of vintage marantz and the power amp sounds just as good whether it is driven by its matching preamp or just a mid range AVR. For peace of mind though, you can always look for the matching preamp (CX-1000?) from the used market. There is probably no point buying anything new, if the amp itself is over 20 years old.

 

[bikemig]

Emotiva has its stereo preamp on sale at $369, USP-1 Stereo Preamp | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplif.

If you have digitized your music, emotiva has a dac/ preamp also on sale at $349, XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multi

 

[ImcLoud]

Emotiva has its stereo preamp on sale at $369, USP-1 Stereo Preamp | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multichannel amplifiers, stereo amplifiers, and monoblock amplif.

If you have digitized your music, emotiva has a dac/ preamp also on sale at $349, XDA-2 USB DAC/Digital Preamp/Headphone Amp | Emotiva Audio Corporation | Emotiva Audio | High-end audio components for audiophiles and videophiles, spanning 2-channel music systems, as well as 5.1 and 7.1 home theaters. Products include multi

This X-2, I love my emo dac...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would just get a 7.1 AVR w/ pre-outs to your Amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A2010BL-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B0056GJLJ4/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356799489&sr=1-12&keywords=yamaha+receiver

Or Stereo Receiver w/ pre-outs to your amp.
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-R-S700BL-Natural-Stereo-Receiver/dp/B0044779G8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356799367&sr=1-1&keywords=yamaha+stereo+receiver

Or Integrated Amp w/ pre-outs to your amp.
Amazon.com: Yamaha A-S1000BL Natural Sound Integrated Stereo Amplifier (Black): Electronics

In Direct & Pure Direct modes and level-matched, you will not hear any difference between a class A analog stereo preamp vs AVR, SR, or IA.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The biggest deal is the ATI ATP6700 pre-pro, which was $3000 MSRP, now $595.

ATI ATP6700 Preamp Processor (120/240 V) - A/V Processors

ATI ATP8700 Top of the line A/V Processor | Processors | Montebello, California 90640 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

It is brand new @ 80% off MSRP!

Or the ATP7700 for $795 (MSRP $4000).
http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/a-v-processors/ati-atp7700-preamp-processor-120-240-v.html

 

[ImcLoud]

In Direct & Pure Direct modes and level-matched, you will not hear any difference between a class A analog stereo preamp vs AVR, SR, or IA.

I like how my system sounds going from ipad dock to dac to amp, vs dock to avr to amp, I also did some a b listening at Emotiva and noticed a difference in sound, their answer was the less stuff in the audio path the less likely there will be any change to the sound..... for music the most direct path is best...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I like how my system sounds going from ipad dock to dac to amp, vs dock to avr to amp, I also did some a b listening at Emotiva and noticed a difference in sound, their answer was the less stuff in the audio path the less likely there will be any change to the sound..... for music the most direct path is best...

As long as there is no processing involved (RC/EQ/DSP), Pure Direct in a good AVR will not sound differently than a DAC or preamp if the levels are MATCHED & w/o bias.

Emotiva isn't exactly going to tell you that you are wasting your money on their DAC. Bias & power of suggestion is strong.

 

[slipperybidness]

+1 on the USP-1

Concerning ADTG and the usefulness of DACs-- it all depends on your application, outboard DACs aren't needed by most, but they are useful in a stack of pure 2 channel separates, and an investment in a good outboard DAC is better in many respects to investment in a computer sound card.

 

[PENG]

+1 on the USP-1

Concerning ADTG and the usefulness of DACs-- it all depends on your application, outboard DACs aren't needed by most, but they are useful in a stack of pure 2 channel separates, and an investment in a good outboard DAC is better in many respects to investment in a computer sound card.

Yes they are useful in some applications. I think ADTG's comment was more to the sound quality thing but let's see if I am right about that.

 

[cpp]

Yes they are useful in some applications. I think ADTG's comment was more to the sound quality thing but let's see if I am right about that.

there is a major difference in sound quality when I compare my Denon 4311 and my pre-amp feed from the same cd to the same speakers. Pre-amp ( 2 chl) the sound stage is larger and the mid range is better defined.

 

[PENG]

there is a major difference in sound quality when I compare my Denon 4311 and my pre-amp feed from the same cd to the same speakers. Pre-amp ( 2 chl) the sound stage is larger and the mid range is better defined.

I respect that, but it is a highly subjective thing. I have also compared my 3805 (probably comparable but likely not as good as your 4311) and 4308 (theoretically better than the 4311) with my preamps, no audible differences, and I have tried quite a few AVR, prepro, preamps, same results, yet I have no problem hearing the difference between my speakers, rooms, and media sources. I find at least power amps can make an audible difference if you push them to their limits, but with preamps I don't find that at all, not with mine anyway. My comparisons were all done in pure direct mode, and/or analog only.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

there is a major difference in sound quality when I compare my Denon 4311 and my pre-amp feed from the same cd to the same speakers. Pre-amp ( 2 chl) the sound stage is larger and the mid range is better defined.

Yeah, I really think bias and not being level matched played a huge factor.

I used to be all class A analog too. At 1 point I owned 4 Acurus Class-A analog preamps and used them for 7.1. I was convinced that analog was better. But after comparing analog to digital AVR numerous times, I see absolutely no difference.

Same thing with CD players and DAC. I've compared music playback on my $2K Denon BD3800 and $4K flagship Denon SACD players that had the flagship Burr-Brown DACs to some $200 players with low end DACs. I really could not hear any difference.

Perhaps the difference was there, but it was not very obvious at all, not significant enough for me to hear the difference.

So I just don't think DACs make a significant difference at all because they are very matured technologies.

I mean look at the specs on these DACs. The flagship DAC may have SNR of -130dB and THD of 0.0001% and XO of -120dB, but even the bottom of the line DACs have SNR of -110dB, THD 0.001%, and XO of -100dB. Just not audible.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

+1 on the USP-1

Concerning ADTG and the usefulness of DACs-- it all depends on your application, outboard DACs aren't needed by most, but they are useful in a stack of pure 2 channel separates, and an investment in a good outboard DAC is better in many respects to investment in a computer sound card.

I agree with that 100%. I would never let PC do the DAC, even if the PC had the flagship Burr-Brown DAC. I would always bitstream from the PC to the AVR, pre-Pro or ext DAC (if you don't use an AVR, etc).

 

[cpp]

Yeah, I really think bias and not being level matched played a huge factor.

I used to be all class A analog too. At 1 point I owned 4 Acurus Class-A analog preamps and used them for 7.1. I was convinced that analog was better. But after comparing analog to digital AVR numerous times, I see absolutely no difference.

Same thing with CD players and DAC. I've compared music playback on my $2K Denon BD3800 and $4K flagship Denon SACD players that had the flagship Burr-Brown DACs to some $200 players with low end DACs. I really could not hear any difference.

Perhaps the difference was there, but it was not very obvious at all, not significant enough for me to hear the difference.

So I just don't think DACs make a significant difference at all because they are very matured technologies.

I mean look at the specs on these DACs. The flagship DAC may have SNR of -130dB and THD of 0.0001% and XO of -120dB, but even the bottom of the line DACs have SNR of -110dB, THD 0.001%, and XO of -100dB. Just not audible.

Here ya go, talking about these db's that are in the range of the`threshold of pain'' for human hearing ( is often defined as close to 120 dB ).
I don't really care about the specs as much as you do, its the sound you hear that matters and having your speakers positioned to better present the sound while not being all packed together like sardines in a can waiting to be eaten.

PS: I never actually have heard a written 'SPEC', (written on paper for crazy people to quote) but I can hear sound. Anyway my other pre-amp, Quicksilver Line Pre soundstage is not as defined as my Rogue in that I mean you can ID the instruments across the sound-stage rather than grouped tightly together as with the Denon in the low frequency range area all grouped together sounding. But my Denon is pretty darn good for HT, but for 2 chl, I'll take my normal 2 chl gear. But it's all about personal choice in this hobby, kinda like vintage muscle cars.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...its the sound you hear that matters and having your speakers positioned to better present the sound while not being all packed together like sardines in a can waiting to be eaten.

And the sound you hear when visually and knowingly comparing 2 things (especially not properly level-matched) is filled with bias.

When I was comparing my $1200 class-A analog preamps vs $400 AVR vs $2000 pre-pro, I only had a 5.1 NHT speaker system, not the low sound quality sardine speakers I now own.

But none of us really have the time or resources to conduct real DBTs.

We base our opinions on our subjective bias experiences.

But The Audio Critic had the staff & resources for DBT & much better analysis. The conclusion was that wires, cables, DACs, CD players, Amps, & preamps just don't really sound differently, while speakers and processors do sound very differently.

So there is DBT proofs that DACs & preamps & amps & AVR don't sound differently in Direct Mode. They may not be accepted by those who subjectively BELIEVE differently. But there are at least DBT proofs.

There is absolutely no proof that analog preamps sound differently than the preamp in an AVR or pre-pro.

But we are all welcomed to believe whatever we choose because this is only a hobby for enjoyment and entertainment, not some evidence-based science & engineering.

 

[cpp]

And the sound you hear when visually and knowingly comparing 2 things (especially not properly level-matched) is filled with bias.

When I was comparing my $1200 class-A analog preamps vs $400 AVR vs $2000 pre-pro, I only had a 5.1 NHT speaker system, not the low sound quality sardine speakers I now own.

But none of us really have the time or resources to conduct real DBTs.

We base our opinions on our subjective bias experiences.

But The Audio Critic had the staff & resources for DBT & much better analysis. The conclusion was that wires, cables, DACs, CD players, Amps, & preamps just don't really sound differently, while speakers and processors do sound very differently.

So there is DBT proofs that DACs & preamps & amps & AVR don't sound differently in Direct Mode. They may not be accepted by those who subjectively BELIEVE differently. But there are at least DBT proofs.


There is absolutely no proof that analog preamps sound differently than the preamp in an AVR or pre-pro.

The proof is in my room, come on down and have a listen.

But we are all welcomed to believe whatever we choose because this is only a hobby for enjoyment and entertainment, not some evidence-based science & engineering.

R....I.....G.....H.....T tell that to Audiophiles and Computer Nerds