Looking for $200-$300 bookshelfs for 2.1 system

[psbfan9]

These subs are cheap and have good customer reviews.

BIC America Formula F-12 Subwoofer - 150 Watt

I was wanting to upgrade, just for the sake of upgrading. I was told to save, be patient, and get what I want. That's what I'm doing so I can afford that 'dream system'. You have decent system now, try not get in a hurry so that in 6 months you'll be back to wanting something new. Just a thought.

 

[avnetguy]

I would get a sub first and see if the 152's with the sub get the job done. I don't see where upgrading to the 162's will make a difference while using a sub. From memory the 152's have a flatter frequency response anyway. (check me on that...) A sub will take a lot of stress off those smallish speakers and the sound will get much cleaner without having to produce bass. My suggestion for a $500 sub in a small/medium sized room would be the Epik Legend.

I'm not sure you can get a true upgrade for under $300 unless you do not like the sound of your Infinities. I feel most speakers in that price range will be a down grade in quality or a lateral move that just sound more or less forward / laid back.

For speakers try calling Ascend Acoustics and see if they have any B-stock CBM-170 SE's. I have a pair and I couldn't find a mark on them. I think they sell b-stock for just under $300.

Please let us know what you decide and how it worked out for you. Good luck!

While I don't disagree that a sub might be a good first upgrade, I do see a couple of points to consider,

- While I'm not really familar with the HK3490 (quick look at the manual only) I don't believe it'll relieve the bookshelves from producing bass, it has no management (x-over) I can see for that. While the sub will obviously produce better bass and dig deeper, the little 153's will still be doing full frequency duty.

- Not sure if the last list of speakers the OP posted would be a lateral move, some might provide a fairly good sound upgrade but, as mentioned already, auditioning is the only true test to see if the upgrade is worth it.

Since this is primarily a music system I'll throw out another option with the thought of trying to keep a budget in mind. You could drop the sub/bookshelf combo and get some towers instead. I normally switch between 2.0 and 2.1 when listening to music, depending on genre/mood, but even when in 2.1 mode for music I lower the sub down 3-6db from my HT settings. In any case, it's just more food for thought.

Steve

 

[GranteedEV]

I would get a pair of Pioneer SP-C21s

 

[STRONGBADF1]

While I don't disagree that a sub might be a good first upgrade, I do see a couple of points to consider,

- While I'm not really familar with the HK3490 (quick look at the manual only) I don't believe it'll relieve the bookshelves from producing bass, it has no management (x-over) I can see for that. While the sub will obviously produce better bass and dig deeper, the little 153's will still be doing full frequency duty.

- Not sure if the last list of speakers the OP posted would be a lateral move, some might provide a fairly good sound upgrade but, as mentioned already, auditioning is the only true test to see if the upgrade is worth it.

Since this is primarily a music system I'll throw out another option with the thought of trying to keep a budget in mind. You could drop the sub/bookshelf combo and get some towers instead. I normally switch between 2.0 and 2.1 when listening to music, depending on genre/mood, but even when in 2.1 mode for music I lower the sub down 3-6db from my HT settings. In any case, it's just more food for thought.

Steve

Good catch! I don't see any bass management on the HK either.

I'd still buy a sub first and see how it goes.

 

[seylermoon]

While I don't disagree that a sub might be a good first upgrade, I do see a couple of points to consider,

- While I'm not really familar with the HK3490 (quick look at the manual only) I don't believe it'll relieve the bookshelves from producing bass, it has no management (x-over) I can see for that. While the sub will obviously produce better bass and dig deeper, the little 153's will still be doing full frequency duty.

- Not sure if the last list of speakers the OP posted would be a lateral move, some might provide a fairly good sound upgrade but, as mentioned already, auditioning is the only true test to see if the upgrade is worth it.

Since this is primarily a music system I'll throw out another option with the thought of trying to keep a budget in mind. You could drop the sub/bookshelf combo and get some towers instead. I normally switch between 2.0 and 2.1 when listening to music, depending on genre/mood, but even when in 2.1 mode for music I lower the sub down 3-6db from my HT settings. In any case, it's just more food for thought.

Steve

The only thing keeping me from getting a tower system is space limitations. There is a nice area where I can fit a relatively compact subwoofer (anything less than a 17" cube) and two table tops for bookshelf speakers. As I do not know where I'll be living after the next several months, I am guessing that a 2.1 system would be easier to work with.

Also, is there not a way to set the LF cutoff for the shelf speakers so they don't have to deal with the bottom range? If not, then this might be even more of a reason to get speakers that don't have to work so hard to cover the LF in the crossover region. In other words, the P153s might handle them mids and highs very well, but they may simply be over-extended if I can't restrict their frequency range, making the P162s (or others) a better choice for a 2.1 setup.

 

[shadyJ]

I don't think you'll find a big difference between the p162/3s and some p152/3s. Just a bit more bass extension. I have some Hsu HB-1 mk2s and some Behringer 2031p monitors, both of which do bass better than the P162s. The Hsu speakers are good, but would do better in a larger room, whereas the Behringers do well with near-field listening. To be honest, the p152 is a pretty good speaker, and if you want something that will sound a lot better, you will have to spend more than 300, like say the Ascend Sierras. You might check out the Arx A1b, their ribbon tweeter might have more detail than a conventional dome tweeter, and they are 300 a pair. Also, if you are able to do a bit of assembly yourself, check this Dayton Audio Kit out from Parts Express. If I was after speakers in the $300 range, that is probably what I would get.

 

[Moutee]

Can anyone find the B2030p's for around $160/pr new? The lowest I've seen is $220....much higher than their original bargain price of $125-130. Either Behringer's overheads increased, or someone in marketing caught wind of the secret.

 

[avnetguy]

The only thing keeping me from getting a tower system is space limitations. There is a nice area where I can fit a relatively compact subwoofer (anything less than a 17" cube) and two table tops for bookshelf speakers. As I do not know where I'll be living after the next several months, I am guessing that a 2.1 system would be easier to work with.

Also, is there not a way to set the LF cutoff for the shelf speakers so they don't have to deal with the bottom range? If not, then this might be even more of a reason to get speakers that don't have to work so hard to cover the LF in the crossover region. In other words, the P153s might handle them mids and highs very well, but they may simply be over-extended if I can't restrict their frequency range, making the P162s (or others) a better choice for a 2.1 setup.

Going for the sub might be the only way for you to go right now given the limitations. And no, I didn't see any way with your receiver to limit the LF to the 153s but they might sound good enough with a sub working with them.

Steve

 

[seylermoon]

I don't think you'll find a big difference between the p162/3s and some p152/3s. Just a bit more bass extension. I have some Hsu HB-1 mk2s and some Behringer 2031p monitors, both of which do bass better than the P162s. The Hsu speakers are good, but would do better in a larger room, whereas the Behringers do well with near-field listening. To be honest, the p152 is a pretty good speaker, and if you want something that will sound a lot better, you will have to spend more than 300, like say the Ascend Sierras. You might check out the Arx A1b, their ribbon tweeter might have more detail than a conventional dome tweeter, and they are 300 a pair. Also, if you are able to do a bit of assembly yourself, check this Dayton Audio Kit out from Parts Express. If I was after speakers in the $300 range, that is probably what I would get.

What do you think about the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SEs? How do those compare to the Sierras and the Arx A1bs? I might end up ordering a couple of these and giving them a trial.

 

[shadyJ]

What do you think about the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SEs? How do those compare to the Sierras and the Arx A1bs? I might end up ordering a couple of these and giving them a trial.

I haven't heard the CBM-170s, but I can't believe they would be enormously better than many of the other $300 speakers mentioned here, but they do look very good. I wouldn't expect a huge leap in sound quality over the p152s though. The Sierras are where I would expect to see a truly significant upgrade over what you have now.

 

[Moutee]

WmAx used to rave about the performance of the Primus 15_, 16_, and 36_ speakers. He suggested that the P152s you mentioned be paired with two subwoofers for the best quality (before modifications). I recommend searching for his posts; he also shared his opinions and observations about working with the Behringer B2030p speakers as well.

 

[seylermoon]

WmAx used to rave about the performance of the Primus 15_, 16_, and 36_ speakers. He suggested that the P152s you mentioned be paired with two subwoofers for the best quality (before modifications). I recommend searching for his posts; he also shared his opinions and observations about working with the Behringer B2030p speakers as well.

Although I have only heard several very nice stereo systems, I can tell for sure that the P153s are not slouches, especially given that I picked up the pair for $50. The only issue that really bugs me is the fact that certain types of music (e.g. metal, electro-house, drum and bass) give the P153s a hard time at the low end and I can hear the whole spectrum suffering from the LF workout - boominess and muddiness are prominent as well.

I know that once I get a sub, the bottom-end will sound much smoother but, without a built-in crossover in my HK3490, I see no way to give the P153s the HF chance they deserve. This is the main reason I am looking for an upgrade, despite the fact that the P153s do a great job with tracks that have hardly any bass. My options are either to purchase a separate crossover or get new speakers, and it doesn't really make sense to me to buy a crossover when there are shelf speakers that could solve my problem for the same price.

 

[Crackerballer]

I think you're better off getting a new receiver and a sub, setting the crossover appropriately, and letting the infinitys do what they do well, mids and highs. Why get new speakers if the plan is a sub anyway?

 

[avnetguy]

This is the main reason I am looking for an upgrade, despite the fact that the P153s do a great job with tracks that have hardly any bass. My options are either to purchase a separate crossover or get new speakers, and it doesn't really make sense to me to buy a crossover when there are shelf speakers that could solve my problem for the same price.

You do have another option, it won't "solve" the problem but it should help considerably and it's basically free! Try plugging the ports on the 153 with some foam and do some listening tests see how they sound to you. Pay attention to the music that usually causes bass distortion and see if that is now diminished with the foam in place. Now if that sounds good and you only find the bass lacking then adding a sub will fill in what you are missing on the lower end.

Steve

 

[shadyJ]

You do have another option, it won't "solve" the problem but it should help considerably and it's basically free! Try plugging the ports on the 153 with some foam and do some listening tests see how they sound to you. Pay attention to the music that usually causes bass distortion and see if that is now diminished with the foam in place. Now if that sounds good and you only find the bass lacking then adding a sub will fill in what you are missing on the lower end.

Steve

This ought to help the speaker keep better control of its composure, but it will dampen the low end by quite a bit. Its certainly worth trying, given the problems the OP is describing. To the OP, I would recommend taking a strong look at the Behringer 2031p, it does very well with bass, with strong output all the way down to the mid 50 hz range, which is substantially better than what the Primus p162/3 can do and much better than what your speakers can do. They are large and heavy bookshelf speakers though, so make sure you have the room for them. They also carry a 4 ohm resistance load, so you wouldn't want to hook them up to a entry level 5.1 receiver, although your Harman/Kardon will handle them with aplomb. The are pretty highly regarded for their sound quality, do some searches for discussion about them, I have a pair hooked up to a H/K 3490 receiver myself and I think they sound superb.

 

[seylermoon]

You do have another option, it won't "solve" the problem but it should help considerably and it's basically free! Try plugging the ports on the 153 with some foam and do some listening tests see how they sound to you. Pay attention to the music that usually causes bass distortion and see if that is now diminished with the foam in place. Now if that sounds good and you only find the bass lacking then adding a sub will fill in what you are missing on the lower end.

Steve

This is very helpful. I will try this out soon.

 

[seylermoon]

Plugging the ports with a bit of EPP foam did help a bit, but I'm still a bit disappointed with the way the speakers handle mid-level volumes on bassy tracks. I think I am going to put in my own high pass filter with a couple of caps that I can pick up from my local hifi shop.

On another note, I also went down to the hifi shop to see what they had in store. On the floor, I was shown - got to demo for well over an hour - the Paradigm Mini Monitor v.6 and the DefTech SM45. In the direct comparison, it seemed like my own P153s (brought them down) held their own against the DefTech SM45, but the sound stage of the Mini Monitors was not only a bit warmer and heavier on the bass, but much fuller and wider-sounding. They also seemed to be less sensitive to my listening position as I moved around. Unfortunately, even they had trouble with some tracks I played.

They also had the Boston Acoustics CS 26, which were not bad too, but were still outdone overall by the Mini Monitors by my ears. On the other hand, the SM45s were noticeably clearer and more detailed in the highs than both the BAs and Minis in classical pieces from Bach, but not too much better than the P153s. The SM55s are supposed to come in soon, so I might give those a look as well. Unfortunately, even though the store seems willing to bargain quite a bit, the starting price they wanted for the Mini Monitors was $500. I was able to get them to passively accept $400 as a potential deal, but even that price is still very high compared to what's available online.

I recently spoke to an old friend about my situation - he's the one who got me into high-def music - who told me he was also in the market for two more bookshelfs, albeit closer to the $500 price range. Well, in a spur-of-the-moment decision made between myself and my friend, I ended up grabbing the older PSB GB-1 for $500 (brand new with full warranty). I will listen to these in my apartment and keep them if I feel the price is worth the upgrade in sound, and my friend was certain that he'd love to have them for $500 if I decide otherwise - I guess he's into that piano black finish for his audio products. According to him, the GB-1s should be noticeably better than the Energy RC-10 and PSB Image B6, so if he's right, then I guess I'll have some new speakers!

 

[zieglj01]

^^^
Thanks for checking back - audition is the way to do it. Give the
PSB GB1 a nice work out.

 

[seylermoon]

Finally received my PSB GB1s. I have been breaking them in for several hours now and they already sound great. They handle lower frequencies with so much more poise than the Infinity P153s. The sound staging is quite noticeably better, and the speakers have an overall warmer sound, but don't seem to sacrifice any precision in the higher frequencies. So far, so good.

Currently, I am using them with a Peachtree Decco and not my HK3490, since my friend is currently borrowing it for his speakers. I will get it back within several days and will be able to hook the GB1s up to a bit more power. I will then relegate the Decco to DAC/Preamp duties, although the GB1s are capable of being bi-amped.

Also, the piano black finish looks positively stunning!

 

[zieglj01]

^^^
Good show, and enjoy.