Levels for centre vs. phantom centre in multi-channel analog

[supervij]

I was watching The Police: Certifiable on Blu-ray the other day, and I found that I was disliking the way Sting’s vocals sounded coming from my centre speaker (an Athena C1). Out of curiousity, I set my receiver to phantom centre, and noticed two things immediately:

One, the vocals were so much clearer and sounded less tinny and more powerful. Two, the vocals were noticeably louder than when they were coming out of the centre speaker.

As for the first point, well, maybe the C1 ain’t the greatest centre speaker in the world. I’ve been thinking that I oughtta replace it with something better. Or at least tweak the centre EQ settings in the receiver. Would that actually do the trick, or is getting a better centre the thing to do?

The second point is interesting. I have a non-HDMI receiver, so when it comes to the hi-res audio codecs, I use the multi-channel analog audio outputs. I immediately checked to make sure that all the interconnects weren’t partially hanging out but no, they were in there all snug. Then I grabbed my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter, and did some measurements, using the AIX Blu-ray test disc and its speaker balance tests.

Using my BD player’s multi-channel analog audio output into my receiver, I did my usual bit of balancing all my speakers to 70 dB, the sub to 72.5 dB and the centre to 72.5 dB –- I do that to the centre to compensate for the relatively powerful Athena F2 fronts.

Out of curiousity, I put the receiver into phantom centre mode and found that the phantom centre signal was registering 74.5 dB on the meter. NOT the 72.5 dB I was expecting.

So my question is how should I go about setting the level for the centre when in multi-channel? Keep it at the 72.5 dB that I had before (to keep it in line with traditional leveling methods), or bump it up another 2 dB (to keep it in line with how a phantom centre would sound)?

(Note that when using a digital input with my non-HDMI receiver, the levels were the same for centre and phantom centre. Note also that sticking with a phantom centre is fine with me, but is not the solution for when I watch movies with friends scattered about the room.)

cheers,
supervij

 

[j_garcia]

I haven't heard that center, but the Athenas were pretty good for the price back when they came out. I'd try bumping up the center 1dB and see if it makes a difference. If you only notice it on this particular disc, I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, an upgrade to a better center will likely be a good thing going forward, but if you have been happy with it up until now, then I'd start by tweaking, positioning, etc...

 

[supervij]

Hi j, thanks for responding. I'll do that 1 dB bump up and maybe that'll help. Not to be a nit-picker, but I was thinking more along the lines of 2 dB to account for the level difference between phantom centre and not. I'll try that too.

It's not that I've been happy until now, I just never tried the whole phantom centre thing. Yes, I was unhappy with Sting's vocals on that one BD and that's why I tried it. Now I find I'm using phantom centre for anything I watch on my own! I was watching The Guns of Navarone (recorded from HDNet) last night, and did some toggling between centre and phantom centre during a few scenes, and I remember a lot of the explosions sounding quiet and tinny and coming clearly from the centre speaker and nowhere else. When I put those scenes of explosions on phantom centre, those explosions were noticeably louder, fuller, and seemed to come from the entire front soundstage! MUCH preferred!

So I'm noticing this on digital (coax) input as well as the multi-channel analog input. It's strange -- when I checked levels for the digital input, centre and phantom centre were exactly the same, but it still sounds louder when listening to the movie! I don't understand this at all.

Does anyone know what speaker (a centre one or not) would make for a good centre channel for my Athena F2s? I'd love to use another F2, but I'm guessing they're hard to find nowadays, plus positioning it would be weird, what with the beast of a RPTV I have. I'm considering switching the speakers I use for centre and rear centre for the surrounds -- meaning that my B2 bookshelf speakers will be used for centre and rear centre, and my C1 centre speakers will be used for surround channels. Think that might help a bit?

cheers,
supervij