Large room multi sub advice needed

[Bahtman]

After the setup of some new gear, it’s time to add the sub(s) and I was hoping to get some thoughts here.

Being in Thailand, selections are limited but what is available isn’t so far off US prices.

There are no in-home auditioning, no exchanges and warrantees are limited to 1 year, so I need to be confident in my selections. 80/20 movies to music.

Existing gear consists of Focal 936 mains with their CC 700 center and 906 surrounds using a Marantz SR7009 9.2 with XT32 sub room correction.

I know I won't get the chest thumping bass I had in the dedicated room back in the US, but I'm missing a lot as the mains only drop to 39Hz.


Here’s what I have to select from listed by Brand, Model, Size, RMS F.Res. and Price.
(Sorry, the spreadsheet would not attach)


JBL LS120P 12" 400W 25 -150 $1,100.00

Klipsch SW 112 12 300W 24 - 125 $720.00
SW 115 15 400W 18 - 125 $1000.00

KEF Q400b 10 200W 18 - 140 $740.00

Velodye EQ MAX 10 195W 28 - 120 $650.00
EQ MAX 12 225W 25 - 120 $900.00

SVS PB 2000 12 500W 17 - 260 $900.00
PB 13 Ultra 13.5 1000W 17 - 200 $2000.00


In most of the reviews and comments I've read, SVS seems the way to go but oddly enough they recommend if using 2 subs, both should be on the front stage, flanking the mains.

I know that I'll need multiples given the room volume of about 14,000 ft./3 but how many and what size or is the room just to damn big?

DIY's are out of the equation due to sourcing limitations here.

The Klipsch 15" x 400 W is bigger than the SVS 12" but it supplies 500 W. What am I looking for here? I guess it's a process of elimination.

Any input and suggestions will be greatly appreciated and thanks to everyone here for past advice and to Gene and Hugo for all the vids.

 

[TheWarrior]

Bang for the buck, with widely published performance numbers, I don't think you can go wrong with a pair of either SVS subs. (don't mix n match)

Personally, I prefer having one sub located behind the listening position as I find it gives a better sense of envelopment.

 

[Bahtman]

After looking at the specs./reviews and bang for the buck I agree, and will go with something from the SVS line.

I've since been in touch with Ed at SVS on their FAQ site and he's suggested a pair of SB13's where the small cabinets are. I was going to remove them anyway so that's not an issue.

I need to check if I can get the SB's here as I was only shown the PB's.

While tossin' and turnin' last night I was also thinking along the lines of 4 x PB2000 given the same price, combined watts of 2000, frequency response comparison and near double to cone surface area.

Thanks for the input.

 

[DukeL]

If you intend to take full advantage of the benefits of a distributed multisub configuration, you'll probably have one or more subs well away from the area where your mains are. We don't want those subs giving away their locations by passing lower midrange energy loud enough to be heard. So we need fairly steep low-pass filters, at least 18 dB per octave, and preferably 24 dB per octave. In my experience that's a high priority for a distributed multisub system.

Also, at the upper end of the range that the multiple subs cover, their outputs will sum in semi-random phase. At the bottom end of the spectrum, their addition becomes closer to in-phase. The net effect is to boost the very bottom end a bit, so you don't necessarily need to start out with the subs that have the biggest bottom end, as that can end up being too much.

 

[Bahtman]

Thanks,
Quite a mouthful and multiple reads have been necessary.

In talking with SVS, they recommended using two SB13U's on the front stage flanking the mains, inboard. That's it. Nothing beyond that. A comparable option would be the ML Dynamo 1500.

Given the 10,000 ft^3 room, no in-home auditioning/return policy and lack of relevant knowledge, I have to make decisions based on suggestions and input such as yours.

Unfortunately, there's been very little assistance passed along on this "subs" forum, where, in fact, I thought I'd get the most. I'm a bit saddened by the lack of participation here, but it is what it is.

I'll carry on and try to decipher what you said and hopefully come up with something I'll be happy with.

Princeton? Locations?

Thanks again Duke, I appreciate the effort.

 

[DukeL]

Sorry for the techno-babble!

If you're going to use two subs, one where each of the cabinets now sits next to your mains, then just procede with that, no special steps necessary.

If you plan to add any more subs elsewhere in the room, then we don't want those other subs passing any lower midrange energy loud enough for you to hear from your listening area, or else you may well hear the location of those other subs. That's where a steep filter to roll off the top end of thise subs would be very helpful. The plate amps on most subs rolls off the top end at 12 dB per octave, which in my experience is usually not steep enough, but some have a steeper rolloff like 18 dB per octave or 24 dB per octave.

And multiple subs spread out a bit will have a little bit let net energy in-room at the top end of their range than at the bottom end, because of how their outputs combine in the room. Another way of saying this is, they will have a little bit more low-end - so this means you don't have to worry as much about getting subs that have the most possible low-end output, as their in-room tonal balance will tend to "tip" in that direction a bit anyway.

 

[Bahtman]

"techno-babble".........I like that.

I think that 2-SVS 13 Ultras would be enough, given the MLP as suggested by SVS.

I doubt very seriously I'd be adding more than that but have saved your post for review should I ever change my mind.

Thanks again.

What that in mind, I've been all over TX. (E/W/N&S.) and lived in the DFW area as well as Houston.
But Princeton? Where' that?

Mike

 

[lsiberian]

Princeton is to the east of McKinney.

My philosophy is get the best single sub you can afford. If you can afford 2 of them then get them, but don't cheap out with 2 lesser subs. It's a lot easier to add another great sub down the line than to sell the old 2 and replace them with better subs. Do realize the Ultra's are huge and will definitely provide enough bass for anyone other than a basshead.

 

[Bahtman]

Princeton is to the east of McKinney.

My philosophy is get the best single sub you can afford. If you can afford 2 of them then get them, but don't cheap out with 2 lesser subs. It's a lot easier to add another great sub down the line than to sell the old 2 and replace them with better subs. Do realize the Ultra's are huge and will definitely provide enough bass for anyone other than a basshead.

I agree with that philosophy about any item I buy, but even more so in this instance.
I appreciate your chiming in Isiberian and acknowledge your wisdom, always have.

I'm looking at a pair of the sealed SVS13's: 13.5", 1000/3600W, 92# and a 5 yr. parts warranty vs. the
Martin Logan Dynamo 1500's: 15", 650/1300W, 52# with a 1 year warranty.

Both pairs are affordable with the ML being about $500.00 cheaper for the pair.
I know it's purely subjective, but what are your thoughts on these final two?

I'm very familiar with McKinney and called Watauga home at one time.

Thanks

Mike

 

[herbu]

View attachment 16626 View attachment 16627
After the setup of some new gear, it’s time to add the sub(s) and I was hoping to get some thoughts here.

I have a PB13U and can tell you it's a beast... even for a large room. Mine is paired with a Rythmik FV15HP, (also a beast). One is in a front corner, (outside the Main Right), and one is in a rear corner, (outside the Rear Right Surround).

One of these beasts can give me chest thumping, teeth rattling bass in my chair. But my wife's chair, 6' away, gets noticeably less. That's why I got the second one.

My room is big, odd shaped, with a cathedral ceiling over 2/3 of it. Strangely enough, the room also has a fireplace, doors, windows and furniture in it. So location options for the beast subs are somewhat limited. Of the available options, the locations I described are the best. The sub crawl bears it out.

To prevent future upgradeitis, I suggest you go with 2 of the SVS PB13Us. They are the Daddy-O of your choices, and the one choice guaranteed to prevent your wondering, "I wonder if XYZ would be better".

You may hear people say, "XYZ will be good enough", but you'll not hear anybody say, "XYZ will be better than the PB13Us".

 

[Bahtman]

Glad you like them.
I'm looking at the smaller SB13's due to aesthetics in the room and I'm sure 2 will be enough.

 

[lsiberian]

I've found ported systems unforgiving for a lot of my favorite music.(child of the 90s) If you love operas, musicals and symphonies then ported is a must for those truly challenging pieces like Mahler or the 1812 Overture. Of course for those I suggest ditching subs and putting all your money toward a pair of Phil3s. You won't need subs with those speakers.

 

[Bahtman]

Yes indeed, the Phil 3's see, amazing, the cabinets look beautiful and the pricing decent.

Unfortunately, they're not available here in Thailand

 

[Bahtman]

My decision now if between a pair of the SVS SB13's or the ML Dynamo 1500's

SVS:
Quizzing SVS they recommended the above SB13's flanking the mains, inboard. US pricing being at $1600.00
The distributor here opened with a price of only $1657.00. After some haggling, he's offering up a "package" of 2-SB'13's, a pair of the SVS connectors and two sets of the SVS isolation pads SVS said I may require for a "single unit" price of $1700.00 each.
Typical warranties here are 1 year. SVS here initially offered up a 2 year but after intervention by SVS raised it to 5. Piano Black.

ML:
Satin Black @ $1600 and Piano Black @ $1900 (Crutchfield).
The store here gave me a price of $1415.00 each, one year warranty.

Ya know, I've been going back and forth between these two, but looking at my own post now, it would seem the logical decision to spend a bit more for the warranty, accessories and SVS support.

The industrial style grill puts me off a bit, but maybe some speaker cloth over it would make it less harsh.

Thanks for all the help here.

Mike