Just got my SVS PC12-NSD

[trnqk7]

Got delivered yesterday. Text from the wife simply stating "There's no way in heck that will fit behind the tv." I had to laugh. It fits back there easy enough And the cylinder look definitely draws some looks, in a good way

This was an upgrade from an old Sony 12" subwoofer that I don't have the model number for, but had served me pretty well for the last 5 years or so. However, when given the opportunity to upgrade, I jumped at the chance!

I was going to build the Kappa sub on here, but I couldn't fit in the floorspace I was allotted even with shrinking the dimensions down and increasing the height significantly...so I went with plan B...SVS!

Last night was a lot of fun, I've definitely never had a true subwoofer before. Once I got it in place, I loaded up Transformers, War of the Worlds, Finding Nemo, and The Incredibles. Not only was the floor shaking, but my butt was vibrating...as well as several items fastened to the wall. Neighbors came over and demoed a little too, needless to say, all were impressed! I don't feel like the sub was anywhere near it's limits, with the gain at not quite half way up, it was sounding effortless. It does take some getting used to though...where the old Sony boomed all the time, the SVS only gets loud when the director intends it to get loud...this is a good thing.

I am planning on demoing some music tonight and some more movies. As impressed as I am though, I find myself wondering what two of these or the Ultra would have been like, haha. Way out of the budget, but maybe someday.

Anyway, felt like sharing another good SVS experience. I know many people have had great luck with them on these and other boards. Forgot the camera cable today unfortunately.

 

[Chopin_Guy]

Glad to see another happy SVS owner...Congrats and Enjoy!!!

 

[Davemcc]

Welcome to the family.

 

[GlocksRock]

Glad to see you are enjoying your new toy, the bass from an SVS sub is definitely something to behold.

 

[Patrukas777]

I've had my SVS PB-13 Ultra for almost a week....it is awesome. It really completes my HT.....(another satisfied SVS owner)

 

[FirstReflection]

Do you have the sub sitting atop an Auralex SubDude? If not, you are missing out on the true performance potential and also creating more distortion than you can imagine!

If the subwoofer is not decoupled, it shakes the floor. The floor shakes the walls, the walls shake the ceiling. Everything touching the floor, walls and ceiling shakes. And while that seems cool at first, it is NOT a good thing because you are just creating noise. You are also transmitting the sound of the subwoofer via structure-borne vibration, which is far more likely to bother neighbors and is the reason why you can hear the subwoofer throughout the entire house!

While decoupling doesn't stop ALL room resonance (there are, after all, still resonant frequencies that will shake from the actual air-borne sound waves at those particular frequencies), it GREATLY reduces the structure-borne vibrations. The result is much tighter, cleaner, clearer bass, with FAR greater deliniation and much better isolation of the subwoofer from the other rooms in your house.

A SubDude is simply a MUST - it really ought to just be mandatory with every subwoofer purchase. You've spent good money on a darn good subwoofer. Why not get the most out of that subwoofer with a simple $50 platform that does more to enhance your subwoofer's sound quality than any EQ?

 

[GlocksRock]

Do you have the sub sitting atop an Auralex SubDude? If not, you are missing out on the true performance potential and also creating more distortion than you can imagine!

If the subwoofer is not decoupled, it shakes the floor. The floor shakes the walls, the walls shake the ceiling. Everything touching the floor, walls and ceiling shakes. And while that seems cool at first, it is NOT a good thing because you are just creating noise. You are also transmitting the sound of the subwoofer via structure-borne vibration, which is far more likely to bother neighbors and is the reason why you can hear the subwoofer throughout the entire house!

While decoupling doesn't stop ALL room resonance (there are, after all, still resonant frequencies that will shake from the actual air-borne sound waves at those particular frequencies), it GREATLY reduces the structure-borne vibrations. The result is much tighter, cleaner, clearer bass, with FAR greater deliniation and much better isolation of the subwoofer from the other rooms in your house.

A SubDude is simply a MUST - it really ought to just be mandatory with every subwoofer purchase. You've spent good money on a darn good subwoofer. Why not get the most out of that subwoofer with a simple $50 platform that does more to enhance your subwoofer's sound quality than any EQ?

How much benefit would there be to using a subdude or great gramma if your sub is sitting on a concrete slab? My sub is downstairs in the living room, which is carpeted, but the house foundation is a concrete slab. The ultra shakes the piss out of my room, especially the fireplace and I want to do something to stop it from rattling if at all possible.

 

[lsiberian]

How much benefit would there be to using a subdude or great gramma if your sub is sitting on a concrete slab? My sub is downstairs in the living room, which is carpeted, but the house foundation is a concrete slab. The ultra shakes the piss out of my room, especially the fireplace and I want to do something to stop it from rattling if at all possible.

Don't know about the sonic benefit in that case, but I would still suggest one. I think it's a great pad to put a sub on.

 

[trnqk7]

Do they really make that big of a difference?

 

[GlocksRock]

Don't know about the sonic benefit in that case, but I would still suggest one. I think it's a great pad to put a sub on.

well I don't wanna spend money on something that I won't get any benefit from.

 

[FirstReflection]

It makes a huge difference on concrete! Ever seen that film of the bridge rolling like a wave when the wind made it sway at just the right (or wrong, if you think about it) frequency? Concrete is not at all "solid". It shakes and moves just as a wood structure does and it most certainly transmits sound vibrations!

Does it really make that much of a difference?

Yes!

It is not at all subtle.

As I said, a few specific frequencies will still cause some things in your room to shake. Those will be the specific resonance frequencies of those items and the soundwaves in the air will be enough to excite those objects at those specific frequencies. But the general shaking and rattling that happens at pretty much all frequencies when the subwoofer is sitting directly on the floor - those stop almost completely!

It's a tremendous difference; it's beyond worth-while. Like I said, some sort of decoupling device really ought to just be mandatory with every subwoofer!

 

[Adam]

Is it as large of an effect with an SVS cylinder as compared to a box sub? I'm asking because of the bottom support that the cylinders sit on.

Also, if the sub is on carpet over a thick pad on top of a concrete slab, would you think that there would be a need for additional isolation? I know it would depend on the pad, but I'm just asking in general.

Thanks.

 

[lsiberian]

I wouldn't say the difference is huge for house dwellers. But in an apartment it keeps LFE from traveling into your neighbors place below and your adjacent rooms. I've never used mine on the first floor so I can't say what effect it would have there.

 

[agarwalro]

Do they really make that big of a difference?

Yes it does.

well I don't wanna spend money on something that I won't get any benefit from.

You definitely want it.

I added one to my setup, the improvement in sound is amazing. Not because it actually improved the sound, but rather, reduced the boomyness and so made the mid bass that much clearer. The net effect is to help make the overall frequency response a little flatter.

Dont forget to re-EQ or rerun auto setup after adding the Bass Pad.

I wouldn't say the difference is huge for house dwellers. But in an apartment it keeps LFE from traveling into your neighbors place below and your adjacent rooms. I've never used mine on the first floor so I can't say what effect it would have there.

I think, even for house dwellers with wood floors, the difference will be drastic. But I guess, if its a basement (concrete floor) with carpet, the effect will definitely not be as dramatic. I can attest to the effect it has in reducing structural vibrations and therefore transmitted sound in a apt/ condo. It made a huge difference in mine.

 

[croseiv]

Congrats! May you have many days of bass bliss.

 

[FirstReflection]

Any bass decoupler is basically just a shock absorber. If you have a very thick carpet pad, that will do quite a good job of acting as a decoupler.

However, most subwoofers sit atop some sort of "feet". Some have spikes, others have rubber feet, others have sort of stubby, metal feet, but almost all have some sort of "feet" on their bottom.

What's at work here is the principle of distributing weight. If you were to lie down on a bed of nails that only consists of four nails, you would probably puncture yourself! But lie down on a bed of nails made up of hundreds of nails and your weight gets distributed over those hundreds of points, rather than just four, and you do not get punctured!

When a subwoofer is sitting on its "feet", all of its weight is distributed only into those 4-8 points. As such, those "feet" sink rather deeply into any carpet pad, which ultimately couples the subwoofer to the floor once again!

You will actually get better results using just a thick carpet pad if you have the subwoofer's entire bottom surface resting on the carpet.

Ever had a cat or dog sit on your lap? If they are curled up and laying with their whole body on your lap, they feel quite light and you can sit comfortably with them on your lap. But if they stand up, now all of their weight is only distributed into their 4 paws. Suddenly, even a cat's weight can cause discomfort and their little paws sink into your legs!

Spread out the weight and you lessen the force at each point of contact.

A device like the SubDude spreads out the force and also acts as a shock absorber or a cushion. A thick carpet pad will do the same, but beware of those "feet" that can sink deeply into the pad and essentially couple the subwoofer to the floor below.

As for the misconception that concrete will "shake" less than a wood structure, it simply isn't true. Concrete blocks air-borne sound better than a regular wood structure simply because there is much more mass in a concrete wall. But a dense material actually transmits sound more quickly and easily than a less dense material. Remember, sound is just molecules bumping into each other and passing along energy in the form of vibration. In a dense material, the molecules are closer together, so transmission of sound actually happens faster (the speed of sound depends on the medium and denser mediums have higher speeds of sound) and more easily.

Bottom line, you need to decouple your subwoofer whether you have a concrete floor, a wood floor, a tile floor or any other kind of floor! A thick carpet pad will definitely work as a decoupler, but you have to be sure that the weight of the subwoofer is spread out enough that the pad can effectively act as a shock absorber.

 

[lsiberian]

Any bass decoupler is basically just a shock absorber. If you have a very thick carpet pad, that will do quite a good job of acting as a decoupler.

However, most subwoofers sit atop some sort of "feet". Some have spikes, others have rubber feet, others have sort of stubby, metal feet, but almost all have some sort of "feet" on their bottom.

What's at work here is the principle of distributing weight. If you were to lie down on a bed of nails that only consists of four nails, you would probably puncture yourself! But lie down on a bed of nails made up of hundreds of nails and your weight gets distributed over those hundreds of points, rather than just four, and you do not get punctured!

When a subwoofer is sitting on its "feet", all of its weight is distributed only into those 4-8 points. As such, those "feet" sink rather deeply into any carpet pad, which ultimately couples the subwoofer to the floor once again!

You will actually get better results using just a thick carpet pad if you have the subwoofer's entire bottom surface resting on the carpet.

Ever had a cat or dog sit on your lap? If they are curled up and laying with their whole body on your lap, they feel quite light and you can sit comfortably with them on your lap. But if they stand up, now all of their weight is only distributed into their 4 paws. Suddenly, even a cat's weight can cause discomfort and their little paws sink into your legs!

Spread out the weight and you lessen the force at each point of contact.

A device like the SubDude spreads out the force and also acts as a shock absorber or a cushion. A thick carpet pad will do the same, but beware of those "feet" that can sink deeply into the pad and essentially couple the subwoofer to the floor below.

As for the misconception that concrete will "shake" less than a wood structure, it simply isn't true. Concrete blocks air-borne sound better than a regular wood structure simply because there is much more mass in a concrete wall. But a dense material actually transmits sound more quickly and easily than a less dense material. Remember, sound is just molecules bumping into each other and passing along energy in the form of vibration. In a dense material, the molecules are closer together, so transmission of sound actually happens faster (the speed of sound depends on the medium and denser mediums have higher speeds of sound) and more easily.

Bottom line, you need to decouple your subwoofer whether you have a concrete floor, a wood floor, a tile floor or any other kind of floor! A thick carpet pad will definitely work as a decoupler, but you have to be sure that the weight of the subwoofer is spread out enough that the pad can effectively act as a shock absorber.

Yes but isn't it also true that when atoms are further apart then the amplitude of the energy is amplified. This can be seen in the study of the San Fransico Earthquake. Structures built on the less dense soil collapsed while structures built on the dens soil didn't. This because the wave were amplified by the structure.

Therefore based on that a concrete floor would shake significantly less than a wood floor and as such would cause less distortion in the atoms next to the concrete.

So it is reasonable to conclude the need is much lower on a concrete slab than on a wood floor. I believe this topic is a bit more complex than we are giving credit to in our discussion. Plus without a scientific comparison between an Auralex sub and a non Auralex one. I think we are not able to conclude of it's difference. I may at some point conduct some tests in my room to try and observe the differences. I believe the conclusions might be interesting.

 

[Pyrrho]

How much benefit would there be to using a subdude or great gramma if your sub is sitting on a concrete slab? My sub is downstairs in the living room, which is carpeted, but the house foundation is a concrete slab. The ultra shakes the piss out of my room, especially the fireplace and I want to do something to stop it from rattling if at all possible.

One thing to remember is this: Subwoofers move air, and they can vibrate things in the room even if you suspended them from a rubber rope hanging from the ceiling. If your fireplace vibrates, you might want to consider shoring up the fireplace to make it less prone to vibrations. Make sure, of course, that you only do so in a manner that will be safe for fires.

In other words, there is a limit to what "decoupling" the subwoofer from the floor can possibly do.

And, from my own experience with subwoofers in different rooms, putting one on a concrete floor will tend to vibrate the room less than putting it on a wood floor, because it is easier to move a wooden floor than a concrete one. This should be obvious to everyone, but it evidently is not. You find the same sort of results from jumping up and down on the floor; it is easier to get a wood floor to noticeably move than a concrete one.

 

[trnqk7]

The amplitude of the energy is increased here. The objects that are "loose" or farther apart have more room to respond to the stimulus and shift a lot more. More densely packed soil might allow the shockwaves from the earthquake to pass through a further distance, but they don't shift as much (hence saving energy in a fashion, they have less work to do to pass on the vibration since they are more tightly packed). They also vibrate at a higher frequency, most likely out of the range of the natural resonant frequencies of building materials and structures.

Yes but isn't it also true that when atoms are further apart then the amplitude of the energy is amplified. This can be seen in the study of the San Fransico Earthquake. Structures built on the less dense soil collapsed while structures built on the dens soil didn't. This because the wave were amplified by the structure.

Therefore based on that a concrete floor would shake significantly less than a wood floor and as such would cause less distortion in the atoms next to the concrete.

So it is reasonable to conclude the need is much lower on a concrete slab than on a wood floor. I believe this topic is a bit more complex than we are giving credit to in our discussion. Plus without a scientific comparison between an Auralex sub and a non Auralex one. I think we are not able to conclude of it's difference. I may at some point conduct some tests in my room to try and observe the differences. I believe the conclusions might be interesting.

 

[jostenmeat]

Yes but isn't it also true that when atoms are further apart then the amplitude of the energy is amplified. This can be seen in the study of the San Fransico Earthquake. Structures built on the less dense soil collapsed while structures built on the dens soil didn't. This because the wave were amplified by the structure.

The areas you speak of are landfill. Often the homes don't "collapse" any more than others, only that the house may be completely intact... but on its side! The cause in such case is liquefaction of the soil, when there is enough water in the soil, and the top layer is impermeable (or even just slightly so). This has occurred in various places around the world, and I think of Armenia for one, many years ago (and the impermeable top layer was very thin). The very worst place to possibly be is actually right on the border between the landfill and bedrock. With such earthquake locations, the houses that are ripped apart basically outline this boundary. The reason why it's so devastating there is because of the different reactions of the two boundaries that the houses are straddling.

So it is reasonable to conclude the need is much lower on a concrete slab than on a wood floor. I believe this topic is a bit more complex than we are giving credit to in our discussion. Plus without a scientific comparison between an Auralex sub and a non Auralex one. I think we are not able to conclude of it's difference. I may at some point conduct some tests in my room to try and observe the differences. I believe the conclusions might be interesting.

Concrete will be a lot harder to get tactile response from. However, I've heard it said it's not the very bottom freq's that bother neighbors, but somewhat higher bass/midbass frequencies that transmit thru the walls that bother the neighbors so much. Dunno really.