Is this speaker as good as they say?

[JerryLove]

I would certainly be game for spending 1/100th of the cost of a speaker to find out if it was any good. (this quote cut to make response work)

http://technabob.com/blog/2009/08/06/the-ultimate-million-dollar-speaker/

$20,500 (don't forget shipping) checks may be mailed to me at...

 

[highfigh]

I'm not suprised they measured poorly. According to TLS, building a full range driver is very difficult to do. Sounds like the measurement problems stem from the full range driver's inability to reproduce the higher frequencies required for a smooth transition to the tweeter..

It's not just Mark's opinion, it's the laws of physics that dictate what can do what. Large diaphragms can't move linearly at high frequencies and small ones can't produce strong deep bass in a normal room. As much as it's preferable to have a point source speaker in theory, the fact that even a coaxial two-way speaker suffers from modulation by the larger driver means that a perfect solution is far away. Think of this as the effect of speaking though the moving blades of a fan.

 

[RMRM]

I would say go listen to a pair of them. I listened to a pair at audio fest in Denver. Didn't think they were that bad, sure I didn't sit all day but at that price point at least worth a listen. I wouldn't get all in a bunch over specs, if you can go give a listen and see what you think. I do agree that a lot of reviews that I have read then found a place to listen, I walked away say wft how much were they paid.

 

[3db]

It's not just Mark's opinion, it's the laws of physics that dictate what can do what. Large diaphragms can't move linearly at high frequencies and small ones can't produce strong deep bass in a normal room. As much as it's preferable to have a point source speaker in theory, the fact that even a coaxial two-way speaker suffers from modulation by the larger driver means that a perfect solution is far away. Think of this as the effect of speaking though the moving blades of a fan.

Despite the physics, there are some single speakers built on full range drivers that have a reputation based on other's reviews that do sound really good and well fleshed out. Its not impossible, just dam hard.

 

[GranteedEV]

Despite the physics, there are some single speakers built on full range drivers that have a reputation based on other's reviews that do sound really good and well fleshed out. Its not impossible, just dam hard.

Those are usually ~3 inch full range drivers and certainly don't have much bass performance.

 

[3db]

Those are usually ~3 inch full range drivers and certainly don't have much bass performance.

Wrong. Do you consider a 3" driver full range? If not, why would you assume I would?

Read and learn

http://fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/links.html#lowther

An example

http://www.aer-loudspeakers.com/html/mk_1.html


I would like TLS to way in on this. There seems to be more than a dozen manufaturerers employing single full rangre drivers. I don't know the quality behind them or what they sound like. According to the 2nd link I provided, this manufacturer's driver measures fairly flat which is quite an achievement. Wether its accurate needs to be determined.

 

[GranteedEV]

Do you consider a 3" driver full range?

Full range in the sense that you can cross it with stereo subs around 120hz and listen at moderate volumes, yes

Now regarding a bigger full range driver... even if it measured ruler flat on axis, I'd expect it to beam like crazy, which is undesirable... unless you put some sort of intense grill on it to even that out, at which point you're losing fidelity

 

[3db]

Full range in the sense that you can cross it with stereo subs around 120hz and listen at moderate volumes, yes

Now regarding a bigger full range driver... even if it measured ruler flat on axis, I'd expect it to beam like crazy, which is undesirable... unless you put some sort of intense grill on it to even that out, at which point you're losing fidelity

Like I indicated, more measurements are required to determine its dispersion. I wouldt take their word beaming with grain of salt as its translated from German to English, and with German being the more exact language, its more difficult to get across exaclty what is being stated.

 

[3db]

Full range in the sense that you can cross it with stereo subs around 120hz and listen at moderate volumes, yes

The fact that you incorporate a sub does not make a 3" driver a full range driver. Stop playing with words. As of matter of fact, I woud avoid any midrange driver smaller than 5" when it comes to integrating with a sub to avoid localizing the sub.

 

[GranteedEV]

Like I indicated, more measurements are required to determine its dispersion. I wouldt take their word beaming with grain of salt as its translated from German to English, and with German being the more exact language, its more difficult to get across exaclty what is being stated.

I didn't even read the website so i have no idea what you're refering to

 

[JerryLove]

The fact that you incorporate a sub does not make a 3" driver a full range driver. Stop playing with words. As of matter of fact, I woud avoid any midrange driver smaller than 5" when it comes to integrating with a sub to avoid localizing the sub.

English is capable of as much or more precision as German. There are specific words missing, but those can be used as is, or described.

Minimum speaker size is a function of frequency, extrusion, and volume. A full range headphone need not have drivers over 3". Maximum size is a function if wavelength.

Integration too is q function of frequency an distance. The acctual speaker size has bearing only in its ability to hit the desired crossover. Since the other poster had already named a crossove, it might make more sense to argue that unreasonable than to assume something other than specified.

 

[tom67]

I was hoping someone here could talk me out of the $699 investment, but it appears all here are in the protection mode, wanting to protect and validate their own choices in speakers....Only one guy (RMRM) actually heard them and thought they were ok.....for technology to progress, there must be some believers....thats how things get better....

 

[JerryLove]

I was hoping someone here could talk me out of the $699 investment

According to the graph they have poor sound. Don't buy.

 

[tom67]

My Paradigms have an excellent graph and not my favorites...

 

[JerryLove]

My Paradigms have an excellent graph and not my favorites...

My Corolla had tires on it and I didn't like the ride... I still wouldn't drive a car with no tires.

I'm not sure what possibly could meet your need. Other people saying they didn't like it wouldn't say if you would. Given how anecdotal such evidence would be: the FR chart is actually a much better measure (as we can draw a real statistical inference).

Perhaps a parade of dozens of people complaining about the sound: but you've chosen too uncommon a speaker to get that.

And heck, I don't *know* you won't like it. No one does. If you buy it: you'll find out.

 

[RMRM]

Yes I heard them they were playing a B-52's song like I said not bad. I would say for $699 if you can listen to them and see what you think. You may or may not like them. They may or may not mate well with your electronics, at the show I'm sure they had the right combination. I don't mean this in anyway bad but just IMO with gear in this price range you will find they are all close. It's your ear that matters the most happy hunting.

 

[highfigh]

Despite the physics, there are some single speakers built on full range drivers that have a reputation based on other's reviews that do sound really good and well fleshed out. Its not impossible, just dam hard.

I never said it was impossible but if you look at the frequency response of a "full-range" driver, it's either large and doesn't go to 20K or it's small and doesn't do deep bass without being in some kind of horn. I'd really like to see more full-range drivers but I would want it to do deeper bass than most of them. OTOH, if it stops at 50 and goes past 20K with no bad peaks or dips, I'll use a subwoofer for the low end.

 

[highfigh]

Wrong. Do you consider a 3" driver full range? If not, why would you assume I would?

Read and learn

http://fullrangedriver.com/singledriver/links.html#lowther

An example

http://www.aer-loudspeakers.com/html/mk_1.html


I would like TLS to way in on this. There seems to be more than a dozen manufaturerers employing single full rangre drivers. I don't know the quality behind them or what they sound like. According to the 2nd link I provided, this manufacturer's driver measures fairly flat which is quite an achievement. Wether its accurate needs to be determined.

This is why- http://www.madisound.com/store/index.php?cPath=45_241

The driver diameter is based on the application- if it's for a small box designed properly for that driver and will be near a corner and a wall, a 3" is fine but for filling a room, it's obviously not.

Here's a 12" "full-range" driver that sells for $1675 and comes in at about -20dB by the time it gets to 20KHz. I would hardly call that "full-range" but I guess it's a matter of how it's defined.

 

[KEW]

I was hoping someone here could talk me out of the $699 investment, but it appears all here are in the protection mode, wanting to protect and validate their own choices in speakers....Only one guy (RMRM) actually heard them and thought they were ok.....for technology to progress, there must be some believers....thats how things get better....

Most people would have been talked out of it a few days ago. All we can do is give you what info we can find. We have attempted to help you understand the relevance of that info.

Things don't get better from believers in bad products.

Experience (and research) has shown that people like a reasonably flat FR in their speakers.

As for protecting and validating my own speakers, I can say I am constantly doing the opposite - looking to see if I can better my speakers.

 

[tom67]

Thanks JerryLove, you talked me down from the "ledge"......I ordered some Rockets from AV123 instead.....