iPhone AMX App

[georgeMac]

Has anyone here had the chance to beta test www.touchpanelcontrol.com ?

I want an iPhone solution for my AMX system and i've yet to find something that is simple and just works.

 

[raymondy]

Has anyone here had the chance to beta test www.touchpanelcontrol.com ?<iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/yjxf6nk" vspale=0></iframe>

I want an iPhone solution for my AMX system and i've yet to find something that is simple and just works.

When will this program be out of beta. looks interesting

 

[georgeMac]

Looks like it will be out of beta in January.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think Command Fusion had one as well for AMX, but I'm not sure how similar/different it was from the Crestron one. I'm using the Crestron version of CommandFusion in my home and am pretty happy with it. It really requires a lot of Photoshop time so I couldn't program it natively like I could with the Crestron direct version, but I like that it takes advantage of the rotate feature of the iPod to deliver more pages and versatile functionality.

I've been pretty happy with it myself, but it required a bit of intense programming. I do like that it basically can do anything that the Crestron panels can do and once I have a consistent library to draw from it should be much quicker to program.

I will see if any of the guys I work with have programmed up their iPods with AMX yet.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Is AMX as big of a piece of **** as Crestron is?

The Crestron systems I have seen have been nightmares for programming, much to their hourly delight, and ultimately ended up being cumbersome for the end user. Plus the panels are super expensive and the remotes have bad battery life. And even the new wall units look like they are from the 80s... Then they came out with a newer battery for the big remote, that just looks like they put two batteries instead of one in the thing since its so lop-sided and heavy. Plus it runs Windows, so half the time the thing has the blue screen of death.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Is AMX as big of a piece of **** as Crestron is?

Crestron is programmed, so it is a POS only if you have dealings with a lousy programmer. Cumbersome means a programmer that thinks like a programmer instead of an end user. As with many other manufacturers on the market, they have good product, and not so good stuff, depending on usage.

The TPMC-8x for example, is pretty nifty for a larger panel, but is kind of slow.
Their new TPS-6X is fast, and pretty sleek with 8 hour battery life.
I personally use the URC-MX850 combined with Crestron. The hard button remote gives me almost all the functionality I need for my normal viewing of home theater, and I only use the touchpanel if I want to setup my XM presets.

AMX is nearly identical across the board, and there is a reason not only why Crestron & AMX are used at major government and business installations, but why about half of their business is residential use - it's amazingly bulletproof once properly programmed and integrated with good gear.

The Crestron systems I have seen have been nightmares for programming, much to their hourly delight, and ultimately ended up being cumbersome for the end user. Plus the panels are super expensive and the remotes have bad battery life. And even the new wall units look like they are from the 80s... Then they came out with a newer battery for the big remote, that just looks like they put two batteries instead of one in the thing since its so lop-sided and heavy. Plus it runs Windows, so half the time the thing has the blue screen of death.

I could live without the MS Windows integration, but I've never seen a BSOD in my life with a Crestron panel. Perhaps you need to speak to a better integrator. I can tell you, in ten years doing this, I'm pretty well convinced that a great number of them really aren't very good and do NOT put themselves into customers shoes.

For me, 16 hours time gave me programming a 8-16 zone home audio system with 4-6 sources on 12 button keypads and one panel for setup, AND a home theater system with standard sources and lots of TV presets. Considering a system like that might run $30,000 - $50,000 installed with decent product and all the labor, the 16 hours spent programming aren't really all that much.

I've heard more than once "I hate AMX (or Crestron), our panel stinks" and everytime it's been because the programmer didn't know how to do their job well.

I'll try to post some screen grabs from my CommandFusion iPod interface for Crestron. I haven't spent enough time on it really and it's been for learning/fun more than practicality at this point.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Nothing personal, btw, I don't mean to be hard on a product you sell.. it's just...well...I think it is a bad overpriced product (ime).

Crestron is programmed, so it is a POS only if you have dealings with a lousy programmer. Cumbersome means a programmer that thinks like a programmer instead of an end user. As with many other manufacturers on the market, they have good product, and not so good stuff, depending on usage.

In my experience, the cumbersome part of it comes from things not having feedback, and therefore if one thing is out of sync (like a TV off when it should be on), it screws up the whole show.

AMX is nearly identical across the board, and there is a reason not only why Crestron & AMX are used at major government and business installations, but why about half of their business is residential use - it's amazingly bulletproof once properly programmed and integrated with good gear.

I've seen it over multiple programmers, different companies doing it, and they all end up being marginal at best. I don't doubt there are some good Creston setups out there, I just haven't seen them.

I could live without the MS Windows integration, but I've never seen a BSOD in my life with a Crestron panel. Perhaps you need to speak to a better integrator. I can tell you, in ten years doing this, I'm pretty well convinced that a great number of them really aren't very good and do NOT put themselves into customers shoes.

I see menu systems that look very good ergonomically, they just don't work well because they are still ultimately just macro-based. So if one thing is 'out of wack,' it throws the whole system off and it get confused. Until everything on the system is closed loop and the Crestron always know the status of equipment, it will always have this problem.

Their HDMI switcher is a pile, also. I'd rather wait the 15 seconds for stuff to negotiate than have another 5U worth of fan driven Confusitron.

For me, 16 hours time gave me programming a 8-16 zone home audio system with 4-6 sources on 12 button keypads and one panel for setup, AND a home theater system with standard sources and lots of TV presets. Considering a system like that might run $30,000 - $50,000 installed with decent product and all the labor, the 16 hours spent programming aren't really all that much.

Where they get bad is when they use the 'hdmi switcher,' multiple panels, Lutron control and so on. The more complex they get, the less they work, the more they freeze.

I've heard more than once "I hate AMX (or Crestron), our panel stinks" and everytime it's been because the programmer didn't know how to do their job well.

I'll try to post some screen grabs from my CommandFusion iPod interface for Crestron. I haven't spent enough time on it really and it's been for learning/fun more than practicality at this point.

I'd like to see the grabs, it sounds very cool.

As far as "I hate AMX/Crestron, our panel stinks" ... it makes you wonder if they have something with their process that is the problem. Maybe the programming shouldn't be so difficult that their own installers can't get it right.

My experience with the stuff has been it's junk.

 

[jostenmeat]

Hey Midnight, what then do you recommend? I honestly cannot see foresee myself getting into this level of automation any time soon, if ever, but I'm curious nevertheless. I liked your Sonos recommendation to me, and yes it would perhaps be multiples compared to the price tag of some Escient deals . . . but, you've convinced that something along those lines is waiting for. But, that also might not happen for a while either ($$). Are your preferred choices for automation programs much more expensive in this case as well? Thanks.

To give you an idea about where I'm at with automation: I'm just barely investigating how to automate just a couple of light dimmers, and if it's better to save with z-wave, or get some lutron thingy (which I've heard there are URC specific products as well, but then again my remote is entry level so it probably doesn't matter anyways).

For now, the stand-up-and-walk-over-to-the-lights method has to do, heh.

 

[bandphan]

http://www.cepro.com/article/elans_new_g_control_system_is_biggest_product_introduction_ever/

 

[Seth=L]

I've found it makes things profoundly simpler if we avoid automated systems like these. Sure it's simple when it's working correctly, but if it's not, you are just plain SOL!

 

[majorloser]

Unfortunately the consumer electronics markets have not learned from the manufacturing and industrial markets about automation. If only they could just take the cue on a few features used in standard industrial PLC networks. In reality, all we're trying to do is access some simple analog and digital I/O points. Any automation software could be configured to access and control the points if the devices could be connected to a LAN.

Granted, most industrial control software licences can cost almost as much as a house.

 

[bandphan]

Unfortunately the consumer electronics markets have not learned from the manufacturing and industrial markets about automation. If only they could just take the cue on a few features used in standard industrial PLC networks. In reality, all we're trying to do is access some simple analog and digital I/O points. Any automation software could be configured to access and control the points if the devices could be connected to a LAN.

Granted, most industrial control software licences can cost almost as much as a house.

Thats the key, ip based control with simple interfaces and gui, with less of the need to write. Crestron , AMX, Control4 and others work wonderful as long as the setup is correct.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'll see what I can do to get some screen grabs up.

The iPhone app is nice because it provides full feedback which is something some of their panels do not offer.

Frankly, I use the one way and then use the proper devices. My biggest issue with other systems I've seen is that people go and buy a Vizio TV which doesn't have an 'ON' or 'OFF' command (just power) and then you are left guessing what is going on with the display. At least there are Current Sensors available for that.

The key is having a properly engineered system to run things and then while a great deal is (more or less) macro based, it can go way further with actual logic. Alarms, radio, XM stations, multiple TVs in a single room, and extremely solid and redundant serial control of product.

Pair cruddy product with Crestron/AMX and you typically have lousy results. It's astounding how much product is cruddy and how hard it is to wean out the good from the bad.

But, give me a Denon receiver, a Panasonic or Epson projector, a screen with low voltage relay control, and a Panasonic BD player with Fios or DirecTV, and I will give you a system that works properly 99.9% of the time - yes I'm serious - with Crestron control running through a two-way panel like an iPod touch/phone.

I've got a few photos of my old touchpanel in my home and a 12-button controller here...
http://www.avintegrated.com/about.html

I didn't take it personally... well, not insultively at least. I sell it because I program it, but it is my living to program it. Manufacturers aren't even CLOSE to being on the same page to make this stuff work properly and HDMI CEC is a joke for the complete lack of control it offers.

Oh - and I can't speak for the Crestron HDMI switcher. I do believe it is a full matrix HDMI switcher though which you find from very few companies and as far as I know not a single one of them works properly.

I use Monoprice myself.

 

[majorloser]

Thats the key, ip based control with simple interfaces and gui, with less of the need to write. Crestron , AMX, Control4 and others work wonderful as long as the setup is correct.

But they have LONG way to go to catch up to industrial HMI/SCADA control software like Wonderware, iFix and CIMPLICITY. And you don't need fancy proprietary control devices to access controls.

I love CIMPLICITY. In just a few minutes I can create a control dynamo for any device in my plant as long as I know the point addresses. All devices are attached to the network by either a LAN connection, RS-232, Modbus (etc) or through analog and digital I/O connections on the PLC's. Sometimes it just PO's me when I can modify the control system for a massively complex piece of equipment in minutes, but can't find the right screen to change a setting on my projector without having to read through the owners manual.

Think about it, every manufacturing assembly line, every refinery, every power plant and water/sewer plant are all operated by overpaid, lazy union worker. It has to be robust and easy to use. Otherwise they'd might have to stay awake behind the controls.