Interesting thread at AVS about JBL Synthesis FR curve

Spkr_Bldr

Spkr_Bldr

Full Audioholic
In-room measurement in this case doesn't indicate how it'll measure on-axis at 1m. Typically flat in-room will only happen if it's tilted up in the top octaves on-axis, and since we're talking about a speaker with controlled directivity tweeter that's likely even more true here. However there probably is a couple extra db of bass there, which most people would prefer.
 
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fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Also, for some inexplicable reason, audiophiles prefer reduced high frequency content. It is referred to as "warm" - a pleasant term - while the high frequency content is "bright" - a less pleasant term. They are simply trying to sell more speakers by appealing to the common preference.

Personally, I hate the concept of using equalization that is not adjustable or defeatable. If I preferred "warm" and I don't, I would use an equalizer. So these speakers would never find a home in my home.
 
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fredk

Audioholic General
Typically flat in-room will only happen if it's tilted up in the top octaves on-axis
Most interesting. I had not heard that mentioned before. I have seen people criticize speakers with a slight rise in frequency, above say 10Khz, in anechoic measurments saying they are bright or harsh.

Now, I would think that the nature of the room would have a significant effect on what the final in-room response looked like.

fmw. What I have seen refferred to as warm sound is an enhanced mid range. I have also had at least one person tell me that warm described a flat frequency response.

Ancedotally it does seem that there are a number of people who prefer an enhanced mid range and bass. I get the impression that it is quite easy to develop a bias towards a particular sound signature. In part I think this is because our audio memory is so short, but there must be more to it than that.

I know that I seem to prefer the sound of live recordings. They have a crispness or brightness (used in the originally intended defenition) that I like.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1032816

Came across this thread at AVS about JBL using a downward curve in their flagship Synthesis system. This reminds me of someone in the forum mentioning once that Floyd Toole found that a curve like this actually represents a truly neutral response than a flat one.



Gus, I would say this is JBL going back to their roots, similar to the Altec Lansing A7.

Both JBL and Altec lansing were historically the "voice" of the cinema and theater. In fact the Altec Lansings were called "The Voice of the Theater and the A7 still is."

Now this JBL synthesis system comprises quite a few speakers. You can see the JBL ancestral roots in every one! Also there is use of EQ in all the systems. Also I note these systems are shown in large spaces. Just take a look at the efficiency of these speakers.

Now the curve you posted is not different from what engineers used to do with these speakers 30 and forty years ago. The approach to EQ was tame the horns and warm them up! This was often referred to as mellowing the speaker. I think that is what you see in the curve you posted.

I honestly have to say though that in a large space and in skilled hands the offerings of both companies could sound pretty fine.
 
Spkr_Bldr

Spkr_Bldr

Full Audioholic
Most interesting. I had not heard that mentioned before. I have seen people criticize speakers with a slight rise in frequency, above say 10Khz, in anechoic measurments saying they are bright or harsh.

Now, I would think that the nature of the room would have a significant effect on what the final in-room response looked like.
Absolutely, what's in the room will play a big role in upper octave absorption. A 20khz wave is 1/2 inch long, just look around you room at all the little spots that would absorb it. In-room measurements 'count' all the reflections, a typical gated 1m on-axis measurement doesn't. Also with a directional speaker like we're talking about here, the in-room will further be attenuated relative to on-axis.

But in this case they definately are shaping to their taste. That bass and mid-bass bloat is a little much. I myself like a similarly shaped curve, just not nearly as exaggerated. More like how Troels Gravesen voices speakers.
 
Spkr_Bldr

Spkr_Bldr

Full Audioholic
Also, for some inexplicable reason, audiophiles prefer reduced high frequency content.
I'd say it's humans that have that preference, not just audiophiles.

They are simply trying to sell more speakers by appealing to the common preference.
Well, duh :p

Personally, I hate the concept of using equalization that is not adjustable or defeatable.
I'd certainly agree there, in the price segment they're playing in they should give the owner more control.
 
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fredk

Audioholic General
A 20khz wave is 1/2 inch long, just look around you room at all the little spots that would absorb it.
Gocha. High frequency waves are more readilly and, therefore, likely to be absorbed and diffused.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
Came across this thread at AVS about JBL using a downward curve in their flagship Synthesis system. This reminds me of someone in the forum mentioning once that Floyd Toole found that a curve like this actually represents a truly neutral response than a flat one.
Indeed similar, but not completely like that curve to be pedantic (as I often am), the 'Toole curve' is just a 10dB roll-off above 10kHz, I believe the reason for that is because of recording practices. However, the 6dB boost below 100Hz is odd.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Indeed similar, but not completely like that curve to be pedantic (as I often am), the 'Toole curve' is just a 10dB roll-off above 10kHz, I believe the reason for that is because of recording practices. However, the 6dB boost below 100Hz is odd.
I believe that they are just trying to recreate that old JBL and Altec Cinema sound. These systems were never ultra high accuracy, and the engineers of old used to Eq this way. You have to remember sectoral horns really bore a hole in your head. That type of EQ "mellowed" the sound as they used to say.

I would never choose a set up like those JBLs for the types of music I listen to, and never for a small room. I don't think those set ups are for Mozart and Mahler symphonies, or those of anybody else. If you want a nostalgic rendition of Chicago, they will probably foot the bill.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
I believe that they are just trying to recreate that old JBL and Altec Cinema sound. These systems were never ultra high accuracy, and the engineers of old used to Eq this way. You have to remember sectoral horns really bore a hole in your head. That type of EQ "mellowed" the sound as they used to say.
That reminds me of some of the pro experience I've had, on the occasions when one would almost prefer having their ears torn off if certain speakers were not EQ'd.
 
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