Integrated VS Stereo Receiver?

speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I have a quick question for anyone that has direct experience with both integrated solid state amps and/or 2-Channel stereo receivers. Just bought me a set of Wharfedale Diamond 220's to use for my desktop setup. Here are some specs:

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/wharfedale-diamond-220-bookshelf-speakers

Be sure to notice the low sensitivity of 86db which means that they are going to need some good amperage.


I have a Cambridge SR 20 stereo receiver, but I will need to buy something like this in order to connect it to my Dell tower via USB:


https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10K-Headphone-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00LP3AMC2


Here are the specs of my SR 20 receiver:


https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779SR20/Cambridge-Audio-Topaz-SR20.html



Here is the integrated ampw/DAC the NuForce DDA 120 that I am seriously thinking about buying for my Wharfedale Diamond 220's:


http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NUDDA120


Now you have it. What would work best for my 220's? I don't listen at reference levels, but I do like to rock out sometimes. You know get the toe tapping going.....LOL!!!! :):):) Any advice here would be helpful b/c I am so ready to pull the trigger. Want to get my new desktop setup going asap. Thanks!



Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Does the Dell have spdif output?
No, it does not. But, it does have HDMI. Since my desktop setup is right next to my main setup I could just use my new Denon X3300 to power my new 220's via Zone 2. Keep in mind that I will only be using my Denon X3300 to power my Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary speakers and Klipsch center channel. There will not be any surrounds or powered subs whatsoever. As such, my Denon can easily power these speakers as I will never play them all at the same time. This might be the best way to go, no?


Phil
 
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WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai

Either that or use the Cambridge. I’d try both first since you already have them, before spending money on the NuForce. The specs on the NuForce a bit “iffy” anyway. I’m usually suspicious of an A-weighted noise spec.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Either that or use the Cambridge. I’d try both first since you already have them, before spending money on the NuForce. The specs on the NuForce a bit “iffy” anyway. I’m usually suspicious of an A-weighted noise spec.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Thanks Wayne. It really does make more sense for me to at least try to power my new 220's with the Denon via Zone 2. Thus, my Denon will only be powering my fronts and center only 10% of time. However, the Denon will be mainly used to power my fronts ~ 90% of the time when listening to my music. When on my desktop, I also listen to music a lot. But, most of the time it is with my new JBL Everest 700 headphones. I do not see where I would be over taxing my new Denon.

As you mention it the Denon idea albeit Zone 2 does not work well, then I can give my Cambridge SR 20 a try and go from there. Will hold off on the NuForce integrated for now. Will order a FiiO E10K USB/DAC to use just in case I need my Cambridge. Might just use the SR 20 in that configuration to begin with. It is not like I plan to play the 220's that loud very often. Just at times, I do like to rock out. :):):) Thanks!


Phil
 
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ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Isn't a sound card with digi outs less costly than the FiiO thingie?
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I would not waste money on exteranl DAC because the DAC inside the AVR is just as good.

Too bad the Cambridge Receiver is not an AVR (HDMI), like the Denon x3300. That's one reason I would never buy a stereo receiver or integrated amp.

So I would use the Denon AVR or I would try a $6.99 HDMI-to-Optical cable and bitstream the audio to the Cambridge stereo receiver and let the receiver perform the DAC.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-Digital-Optical-2-Pack/dp/B0052SCTLI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1495371426&sr=8-5&keywords=hdmi+to+optical+audio
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Isn't a sound card with digi outs cost less than the FiiO thingie?
I was thinking about that too, one would think most tower PC has spare slots for a sound card even if the existing one is build in with the motherboard.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Some good suggestions have been offered, another one is to get a low cost usb dac that has rca outputs. If you go that way and don't want to DAC to become the weak link in the chain, then consider the xDuoo-TA-01. The SR20 should have more than enough power for the desktop speakers including the Diamond 220. The relatively low sensitivity of the 220 does not matter much for desktop use, considering it's peak spl spec is 95 dB. You give it more power than it can take, sound quality will deteriorate rapidly and may be damaged.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If your equipment mix, existing and under consideration, I think the 3300 is the only piece that will achieve the levels you want, though not by a large margin. Its output is higher than the other amplifiers and it has the DAC that will handle all of the sources likely to be used.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Isn't a sound card with digi outs less costly than the FiiO thingie?
Honestly, I do not know anything about sound cards. Even if I did I have no way to install one other than paying someone to do so. I do have, however, a former coworker that could do that for me. The problem is he works so much he has little time to do so. BSA recommended I get a Samsung EVO 850 SSD. Maybe my former coworker could install both a sound card and a Samsung SSD. Will look into it. BTW, have a sound card in mind? If so, please provide me a link. Thanks!


Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I would not waste money on exteranl DAC because the DAC inside the AVR is just as good.

Too bad the Cambridge Receiver is not an AVR (HDMI), like the Denon x3300. That's one reason I would never buy a stereo receiver or integrated amp.

So I would use the Denon AVR or I would try a $6.99 HDMI-to-Optical cable and bitstream the audio to the Cambridge stereo receiver and let the receiver perform the DAC.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-Digital-Optical-2-Pack/dp/B0052SCTLI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1495371426&sr=8-5&keywords=hdmi+to+optical+audio
Yes, I could connect my Dell tower to my new Denon X3300 via hdmi. Then connect the X3300 to my Diamond 220's powered the X3300 b/c I will only be using 3-channels at the most. In fact, most of the time just 2-channels. Thus, I do not believe I would be over taxing the X3300 at all.

The question is, however, can the X3300 power my 220's well enough for my listening habits? That is why I was thinking about using my Cambridge SR 20 receiver and/or buy an integrated amp. If I connect my X3300 to my 220's I prefer to use digital coax and not toslink. Several here has mentioned to me that they could not tell any difference when using toslink as opposed to dig coax. Unfortunately, that has not been my experience. But, I will try both and check it once again.

Another option I have is to use the Pre-outs for Zone 2 and then connect an amp of some sorts. Wouldn't that work well too? Would still be using the DAC in the X3300 right? Instead of buying an integrated amp just buy a 2-Channel ss amp, no? As such, connect the Dell tower to the X3300 via hdmi then use the Pre-outs for Zone 2 to feed a 2-Channel ss amp. Good idea?


Phil
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Honestly, I do not know anything about sound cards. Even if I did I have no way to install one other than paying someone to do so. I do have, however, a former coworker that could do that for me. The problem is he works so much he has little time to do so. BSA recommended I get a Samsung EVO 850 SSD. Maybe my former coworker could install both a sound card and a Samsung SSD. Will look into it. BTW, have a sound card in mind? If so, please provide me a link. Thanks!


Phil
I've never replaced or added a sound card and have as much experience as you, but have confidence in my ability to learn. Lots of resources online to help.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I would not waste money on exteranl DAC because the DAC inside the AVR is just as good.

Too bad the Cambridge Receiver is not an AVR (HDMI), like the Denon x3300. That's one reason I would never buy a stereo receiver or integrated amp.

So I would use the Denon AVR or I would try a $6.99 HDMI-to-Optical cable and bitstream the audio to the Cambridge stereo receiver and let the receiver perform the DAC.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-Digital-Optical-2-Pack/dp/B0052SCTLI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1495371426&sr=8-5&keywords=hdmi+to+optical+audio
I like this idea if you want to use the Cambridge, but the linked product is actually two different cables: one HDMI cable and one Optical cable.
You would need one of these for the extraction of an audio signal from the HDMI:
https://www.amazon.com/DotStone-Extractor-Splitter-Optical-Converter/dp/B01KYURMEW/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1495383982&sr=8-11&keywords=hdmi+to+optical+audio

However, the Denon seems the best option. It has the power to drive the 220's hard. Wharfdale recommends a max of 100Watts.
It looks like you could get a pretty good idea of how well Denon can drive the 220's by seeing how well it drives the Dentons. Both are 86dB sensitivity with a max recommended power of 100Watts. The 220's are a nominal 8 ohm with a low of 4.1 Ohms and the Dentons are a nominal 6 Ohms, with no low specified (but this review indicates it is essentially a 4 Ohm speaker below 500Hz!):
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/loudspeakers/65-reviews/519--wharfedale-denton-80th-anniversay-edition.html?start=3

So if you set the Dentons to a full-range 2.0 configuration, I'd consider it reasonable to believe the 220's will obtain similar SPL (probably more) and suspect they will get as loud as you would want to drive them in your room!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Enjoy those Wharfedales, they have a great heritage of quality speakers!
If I'm not mistaken, Worf (aka Wharf) was responsible for the design/performance of the low frequencies with his very acute low frequency hearing and Dale took the upper frequencies with his ultra-sensitive high frequency hearing to provide the best of both worlds!

Synergy at it's best:




As you can see, Dale has a solid engineer background!

PS: Unforyunately, Chip, who previously collaborated on designs with Dale was no longer able to participate with Dale due to irreversible hearing loss:
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I've never replaced or added a sound card and have as much experience as you, but have confidence in my ability to learn. Lots of resources online to help.
Yeah, I seen where you took one of your Ultras apart. I commend you for doing so. But, as for me I would never even think about doing that. For one I am a diabetic and my vision is not the greatest. Plus, I am not the most patient guy with putting things back together. Usually leave that stuff for the professionals. Now if you lived closer I am certain we could work something out.....LOL!!!! :):):)


Phil
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, I seen where you took one of your Ultras apart. I commend you for doing so. But, as for me I would never even think about doing that. For one I am a diabetic and my vision is not the greatest. Plus, I am not the most patient guy with putting things back together. Usually leave that stuff for the professionals. Now if you lived closer I am certain we could work something out.....LOL!!!! :):):)


Phil
Ha! I saw a couple of your checks in that thread, I know you were shitting bricks reading it. :p

And I get you, definitely better safe than sorry when it comes to electronics. I've always been a tinkerer and even enjoy doing it. I like to see how things are put together and work.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I like this idea if you want to use the Cambridge, but the linked product is actually two different cables: one HDMI cable and one Optical cable.
You would need one of these for the extraction of an audio signal from the HDMI:
https://www.amazon.com/DotStone-Extractor-Splitter-Optical-Converter/dp/B01KYURMEW/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1495383982&sr=8-11&keywords=hdmi+to+optical+audio

However, the Denon seems the best option. It has the power to drive the 220's hard. Wharfdale recommends a max of 100Watts.
It looks like you could get a pretty good idea of how well Denon can drive the 220's by seeing how well it drives the Dentons. Both are 86dB sensitivity with a max recommended power of 100Watts. The 220's are a nominal 8 ohm with a low of 4.1 Ohms and the Dentons are a nominal 6 Ohms, with no low specified (but this review indicates it is essentially a 4 Ohm speaker below 500Hz!):
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/loudspeakers/65-reviews/519--wharfedale-denton-80th-anniversay-edition.html?start=3

So if you set the Dentons to a full-range 2.0 configuration, I'd consider it reasonable to believe the 220's will obtain similar SPL (probably more) and suspect they will get as loud as you would want to drive them in your room!
The extractor that you linked would use the toslink which is what I am trying to get away from. I much prefer dig coax in that regards based from my own experiences in the past. The toslink sounds a bit thin when compared to dig coax. At least, that it does to my ears. As such, I think that I am going to try to just use my X3300 to power everything.

Keep in mind, the X3300 will mainly be powering my Dentons most of the time anyways. Occasionally will add my Klipsch center mainly when watching BR and other times when watching TV. Then, at other times my new Diamond 220's for my desktop. Never all at the same time. Just do not see where this would over tax my X3300.

If I have the room, my plan is to order a set of Wharfedale Diamond 10.1's to use alongside my Dentons. Maybe use the Cambridge to power them, no? Not sure I will have enough room though. Been moving things around and making a lot of changes so far. Much more to come.

If nothing else, I will use the Cambridge to power my B&W CM 1 S1's and use them in my BR. Have plans for that later down the road, but perhaps the time is right now. Got a lot of things cleared out in my BR as of late. Thinking about buying me a smaller bed as my Queen takes up a lot of room in there. Again though, this is later down the road. Thanks!


Phil
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Ha! I saw a couple of your checks in that thread, I know you were shitting bricks reading it. :p

And I get you, definitely better safe than sorry when it comes to electronics. I've always been a tinkerer and even enjoy doing it. I like to see how things are put together and work.
My older brother is like that. Have a few friends that are professional installers (former coworkers) like that as well. One of them is degreed in computer technology and the other is a mechanical engineer. Then there is me where in my skills are in sales/management but degreed in criminal justice......LOL!!!!:eek::eek::eek:


Phil
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The question is, however, can the X3300 power my 220's well enough for my listening habits? That is why I was thinking about using my Cambridge SR 20 receiver and/or buy an integrated amp.
If that is the only concern, then I would say use the Denon 100%.
 

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