In-wall speaker install.

[panteragstk]

Hey guys, I recent got some in-wall speakers that I'm going to build an in-wall box for. To keep it simple I'll just use 2x4 for the top and sides of the box allowing the speaker to still be installed the way the manufacturer suggests. I also plan to isolate the two sections of the speaker using MDF as @TLS Guy suggested to get the most out of these. The box will be sealed all around with silicone so no leaks.

I have a ton of Polyfill for my numerous sub projects so I'm considering stuffing the "cabinet" with that.

I also looked at the boxes RBH sells for their in-walls as @AcuDefTechGuy suggested and it looks like they use something similar to the Sonic Barrier that parts-express sells. I think lining the "cabinet" with that would be good, but I know nothing about the product. Gets good reviews and I think it'll be perfect, but I wanted the DIY guys to chime in with any advice.

What is the best approach to get the most out of these speakers?

 

[TLS Guy]

Hey guys, I recent got some in-wall speakers that I'm going to build an in-wall box for. To keep it simple I'll just use 2x4 for the top and sides of the box allowing the speaker to still be installed the way the manufacturer suggests. I also plan to isolate the two sections of the speaker using MDF as @TLS Guy suggested to get the most out of these. The box will be sealed all around with silicone so no leaks.

I have a ton of Polyfill for my numerous sub projects so I'm considering stuffing the "cabinet" with that.

I also looked at the boxes RBH sells for their in-walls as @AcuDefTechGuy suggested and it looks like they use something similar to the Sonic Barrier that parts-express sells. I think lining the "cabinet" with that would be good, but I know nothing about the product. Gets good reviews and I think it'll be perfect, but I wanted the DIY guys to chime in with any advice.

What is the best approach to get the most out of these speakers?

I think you are on the right lines. Polyfill will be fine. Just fill the cavity without compression.

To really get the best out of the rig, you should measure the T/S parameters of the drivers, so it can be modeled.

 

[panteragstk]

I think you are on the right lines. Polyfill will be fine. Just fill the cavity without compression.

To really get the best out of the rig, you should measure the T/S parameters of the drivers, so it can be modeled.

Measuring the drivers would be ideal, but I don't posses the equipment for that. I've done room measurements before with basic equipment.

What would you suggest? I've considered getting a good measurement mic for REW and room measurements so this may be another good excuse to grab one.

 

[TLS Guy]

Measuring the drivers would be ideal, but I don't posses the equipment for that. I've done room measurements before with basic equipment.

What would you suggest? I've considered getting a good measurement mic for REW and room measurements so this may be another good excuse to grab one.

Actually it is more than ideal it should be considered essential.

This is what you need. It is very easy to use. For what you have invested the extra $100 s entirely worth it and justified.

If you get the measurements, then I will model it for you.

 

[panteragstk]

Actually it is more than ideal it should be considered essential.

This is what you need. It is very easy to use. For what you have invested the extra $100 s entirely worth it and justified.

If you get the measurements, then I will model it for you.

Sounds good. Thanks for the assistance. I'll be sure and get it soon.

I'm guessing the modeling will help with the cabinet dimensions? Or is there more to it than that?

 

[panteragstk]

So, I haven't had time to mess with getting the drivers measured, but I'm still curious as to what the goal is other than getting the "cabinet" in the wall right?

What am I missing?

 

[annunaki]

The modeling is designed to come up with the ideal enclosure size to help maximize the performance of the woofer. Most in-wall designs (if the designer is competent) will select a woofer that is going to work optimally in a standard 2x4" or 2x6"construction wall cavity. There are a lot of in-wall speakers out there though that just take off the shelf parts, slap a 1st or 2nd order filter on the tweeter and the woofer and call it in-wall to make some healthy profit.

Speakercraft makes some pretty high quality speakers for the most part with in-wall. I would check with them on the back boxes they recommend. Calculate the volume and then build your own or just buy them.

Modeling is almost always the best route to go if your abilities and resources permit.

 

[panteragstk]

The modeling is designed to come up with the ideal enclosure size to help maximize the performance of the woofer. Most in-wall designs (if the designer is competent) will select a woofer that is going to work optimally in a standard 2x4" or 2x6"construction wall cavity. There are a lot of in-wall speakers out there though that just take off the shelf parts, slap a 1st or 2nd order filter on the tweeter and the woofer and call it in-wall to make some healthy profit.

Speakercraft makes some pretty high quality speakers for the most part with in-wall. I would check with them on the back boxes they recommend. Calculate the volume and then build your own or just buy them.

Modeling is almost always the best route to go if your abilities and resources permit.

That was my first thought. They have enclosures for most of their speakers with the exception of these.

I called them and they said to put a 2x4 above and below and silicone the "cabinet" to prevent air leaks. Pretty simple to me.

Right now I have 3 of the Cinema 5 for the LCR and 4 of the LCR 3.5" for the surrounds.

I'll grab the modeling kit and see what results I get.

 

[annunaki]

That was my first thought. They have enclosures for most of their speakers with the exception of these.

I called them and they said to put a 2x4 above and below and silicone the "cabinet" to prevent air leaks. Pretty simple to me.

Right now I have 3 of the Cinema 5 for the LCR and 4 of the LCR 3.5" for the surrounds.

I'll grab the modeling kit and see what results I get.

Did they at least provide a recommended volume requirement? In all honesty the enclosure suggestion they provided is likely a lot better than some of the back boxes I have seen. If you added bracing to the cavity to reduce vibrations and panel movement it could actually work well.

 

[panteragstk]

Did they at least provide a recommended volume requirement? In all honesty the enclosure suggestion they provided is likely a lot better than some of the back boxes I have seen. If you added bracing to the cavity to reduce vibrations and panel movement it could actually work well.

No, the guy literally answered the phone "tech support" so I didn't pry too much as he seemed annoyed that he had to answer the phone. It was a strange interaction. I called one of their reps and got a lot better info, but nothing specific about enclosure volume.

 

[panteragstk]

Finally ordered the Dayton measurement kit. Once I get it later this week I should have time to measure all the drivers.

I have 3 towers and 3 LCR with a smaller mid (3") so I'll measure that as well.

 

[annunaki]

Finally ordered the Dayton measurement kit. Once I get it later this week I should have time to measure all the drivers.

I have 3 towers and 3 LCR with a smaller mid (3") so I'll measure that as well.

It is pretty easy to use. The hardest thing to set up is putting mass onto the cone. Modeling clay works well but does leave a bit of greasy residue behind. I would suggest putting some masking tape down first and then adding the modeling clay.

The larger woofers need more mass added. I use a small electronic scale to make sure I have the proper weight.

OR you can use a test enclosure.

In any case it is worth it.

 

[panteragstk]

Ok. So I got DATS in and have gotten started with the smaller speakers that will serve as the side and back speakers. They are speakercraft LCR3 Five.

I've taken off the back cover that covers up the crossover (nicely build speaker BTW) and tried to take the tweeter plugs off, but couldn't.

I clamped the plugs hooked up to the tweeter and got the following after following the included instructions. I'm not sure how to measure the Vas at this point. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[TheWarrior]

http://woofertester.com/wt2boxbuild.htm

You need to build a test enclosure for measuring Delta Compliance. According to John Krutke of Zaph Audio, this is the preferred way to test as adding mass requires a method of adhesion, which is almost guaranteed to increase damping, decreasing accuracy.

 

[panteragstk]

http://woofertester.com/wt2boxbuild.htm

You need to build a test enclosure for measuring Delta Compliance. According to John Krutke of Zaph Audio, this is the preferred way to test as adding mass requires a method of adhesion, which is almost guaranteed to increase damping, decreasing accuracy.

So I basically need to build a simple test box with a known volume just to measure each driver? Then @TLS Guy (who was so nice to offer to model this for me) can take those measurements and design the right size cabinet so I can get the maximum performance out of these?

Am I right?

 

[TheWarrior]

So I basically need to build a simple test box with a known volume just to measure each driver? Then @TLS Guy (who was so nice to offer to model this for me) can take those measurements and design the right size cabinet so I can get the maximum performance out of these?

Am I right?

Build a box in accordance with the guidelines, yes.

 

[panteragstk]

Build a box in accordance with the guidelines, yes.

I promise I'm not trying to be dense, but...what guidelines? I read the woofertester article you posted and it pretty much says make a sealed box for testing vas assuming that the test box won't be the exact size needed.

I'm not trying to overthink, but want to make sure I'm not..underthinking?

 

[TheWarrior]

I promise I'm not trying to be dense, but...what guidelines? I read the woofertester article you posted and it pretty much says make a sealed box for testing vas assuming that the test box won't be the exact size needed.

I'm not trying to overthink, but want to make sure I'm not..underthinking?

Sorry, was too brief... just make sure you also follow the VAS test link on that page.

 

[panteragstk]

Sorry, was too brief... just make sure you also follow the VAS test link on that page.

Thanks, I skimmed that before and read the entire thing now. It simply says "build a box slightly larger than planned" so I'll use some spare MDF and make one.

The front of this speaker is about 5.5" x 10" so I'll make it about 7x10 to keep it simple. Then about 5" deep should do the trick. I'll have to do the same for the much larger LCR.

That size is bigger than would allow in the wall (with the exception of width and height) so it should work.

 

[TheWarrior]

Thanks, I skimmed that before and read the entire thing now. It simply says "build a box slightly larger than planned" so I'll use some spare MDF and make one.

The front of this speaker is about 5.5" x 10" so I'll make it about 7x10 to keep it simple. Then about 5" deep should do the trick. I'll have to do the same for the much larger LCR.

That size is bigger than would allow in the wall (with the exception of width and height) so it should work.

You'd want to measure a single driver in half of that volume.