I want to go DIY - Subwoofer. Help Needed.

N

Nishik

Audioholic Intern
So i have been around the forums a few days now and learned a few things.
My recent posts were about DVD players, Televisions, and Subwoofers.
I thought i could just decide on one of the readily available - pre assembled subs, but i cannot decide between the 5 choices of

1 x SVS PB-13 Ultra, 1 x HSU ULS-15, 2 x Elemental Designs A7S-450's, 1 x Seaton Submersive, 1 x (Pair) Elemental Designs P7-650, 2 x Dragons

So i am planning to go for a DIY Sub.
Hope i am able to decide on something here, since a few people now have recommended me that it will be a better choice to go with since i will have a better sub.

I have no problem going with a DIY sub, its just that, i don't have the tools and sources to build a custom box.
I want to buy a sub, a pre made box, and stuff like ep2500 and DCX2496, and whatever more is needed.

I need your help guys, i seriously want to get this done, and have a good sub. I won't mind 2 subs.
My budget is $2k, and i am willing to go a little bit over it if its needed.

Thank you
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So i have been around the forums a few days now and learned a few things.
My recent posts were about DVD players, Televisions, and Subwoofers.
I thought i could just decide on one of the readily available - pre assembled subs, but i cannot decide between the 5 choices of

1 x SVS PB-13 Ultra, 1 x HSU ULS-15, 2 x Elemental Designs A7S-450's, 1 x Seaton Submersive, 1 x (Pair) Elemental Designs P7-650, 2 x Dragons

So i am planning to go for a DIY Sub.
Hope i am able to decide on something here, since a few people now have recommended me that it will be a better choice to go with since i will have a better sub.

I have no problem going with a DIY sub, its just that, i don't have the tools and sources to build a custom box.
I want to buy a sub, a pre made box, and stuff like ep2500 and DCX2496, and whatever more is needed.

I need your help guys, i seriously want to get this done, and have a good sub. I won't mind 2 subs.
My budget is $2k, and i am willing to go a little bit over it if its needed.

Thank you
The whole point of a DIY sub is to build a better box. This usually includes a slot vent, if it is a ported sub, to drastically reduce port compression. Also box dimensions have to be optimized to the driver. If you have no tools or carpenter skills, then you have two options.

1). Design your box and pay for it to be custom built.

2). Buy a sub and forget about DIY.
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
Nishik -- You are definitely going to get more performance for your $$$ this way. There are a couple of questions though...Are you planning on going with a pair of DIY subs or do you want to build one 'no-compromises' DIY sub?? Do you want ported or sealed design? Also, given your budget -- I would go with a Yamaha amp as they are quiet and will not require you to do a fan mod like you will have to with the EP2500.

With some of these questions answered there will be a more clear idea of the direction to point you in...
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
No tools?

My next question is how much do you really want tools?

I use a Bosch CS10, Bosch Plunge router, an Orbital sander, a jasper jig and a straight edge.

I put the piece on styrofoam to cut down plywood, but you can get lowe's or home depot to make cuts for you.


If you get lowe's to make the cut's then all you can skip getting a saw.

You could also hire a cabinet maker to build the subs for you.

Just give them the Kappa Plans and have them build a pair of those. Then you can pick up a pair of Infinity Kappa MidVQ.

Get a DCX 2496 and a Behringer EP2500.

Then you should be set.

You will want to put a spot for the binding posts somewhere on the sub. Don't put it in the port though.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Nishik -- You are definitely going to get more performance for your $$$ this way. There are a couple of questions though...Are you planning on going with a pair of DIY subs or do you want to build one 'no-compromises' DIY sub?? Do you want ported or sealed design? Also, given your budget -- I would go with a Yamaha amp as they are quiet and will not require you to do a fan mod like you will have to with the EP2500.

With some of these questions answered there will be a more clear idea of the direction to point you in...
Not sure about the Yamaha's stability in driving a sub. It should work fine for the Kappa's, but many other drivers might test it.

The fan mod is also trivial.
 
Chopin_Guy

Chopin_Guy

Senior Audioholic
After looking....agreed that a Yamaha might not be the best bet given the difference in price and the fact that the EP2500 is a beast in output potential. I think you would have to go to a much more expensive offering from Crown to make a step up from the EP2500.

I just have an inhert hesitation to modifying something like and amp even though after looking through the EP2500 fan mod -- it is definitely not all that bad of a procedure...

For the OP's price of $2k he could do dual EP2500s with 2 JL 13W7's or if a good price could be found, going up the Audio Pulse Axis drivers would be fantastic. Dual 15" Axis drivers in sealed boxes like Dawg's would be killer...
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
A couple 15" AE subs with dual 18" PR could be run off a single ep2500 and have some awesome output and fall well under $2k.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
To the other posters: it is clear that the OP wants pretty much everything ready to go. He just wants to throw some drivers into pre-made boxes and be done with it.

OP: I know exactly what you want. There are appropriate pre-fab sub boxes available. You should add in some braces(this is not hard; just buy a cheap mitre box with manual saw and buy some 1" x 4" oak boards from your local Lowe's or Home Depot. Please refer to bottom of this post for details on bracing.

Budget will be about $2300 total in the end.

I presume you desire compact size cabinets with very high output potential with very low distortion, and this is the premise for this post's instructions/parts.

Parts Express has the appropriate pre-fabbed small sealed boxes to start with, Part No. 302-810 ($160 each/ free shipping). It has a textured black finish pre-applied. You only need to cut a hole for the driver(using a cheap jig saw), add some *bracing and install a speaker wire connector plate/terminals.

You are going to have to go with a driver that has top notch objective performance. You simply can not go with a lower cost driver for a sealed application if you want high performance. Go with JL Audio 12W7. In reality, this driver will produce 2x the output of most high quality 12" drivers(430+56 shipping = $486 each), and it will do so in a small box, and with very low distortion.
Use this link, but call and have them physically verify they have 2 units in stock before you order. I have used them before - but you MUST verify stock before ordering. Don't trust the online stock counter.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4007_JL+Audio+12W7-3.html

For the amplifier, you need around 1000Watts minimum to get high performance in a sealed cabinet with this driver. For a solution that needs no modification for fan noise, the Yamaha P7000S($696 w/shipping) should work fine. It outputs almost 1k per channel x 2, 20Hz-20,000 Hz into 4 Ohms.

Buy from here(top notch customer service): http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP7000S

To save $54 dollars, get zzounds.com to price match this site: http://www.djdeals.com/yamahaP7000S.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the P7000S, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--23162

For the xover/DSP processing, use a Behringer DCX2496($268 w/shipping).
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496

To save $32, get the zzounds.com to price match this site:
http://www.djdeals.com/behringerDCX2496.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the DCX2496, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--21573

The DCX is not optional. You must have both a proper flexible crossover and you must be able to enter parametric band filters to get the low frequency flat response. This is true for all high performance sealed systems; they have built in processing. But we are simply using external components.

The above will give superb performance, down to about 20Hz. Using carefully analyzed EQ settings (chosen based on power vs. excursion safety vs. optimal flat response), the anechoic response will be about -3 at 32Hz, -6dB at 22Hz. In room response will boost the LF a bit, giving essentially flat in-room response to 20Hz, with the above drivers, cabinets and using my specified settings for the DCX2496.

Use these settings:
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=22Hz, Q=2.0, Gain= +3.5dB (This extends LF response)
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=85Hz, Q=0.5, Gain= -2.0dB (This flattens out the inductance peak)
-Crossover: whatever is appropriate for your system.

* To brace cabinet, you will knock out the single cross brace in the cabinet. Just use a hammer to forcefully remove it. Use the 1" x 4" oak and install it all the way around the inside of the enclosure, at least 2 sets of ribs down the depth of the cabinet. Install a couple of ribs on the back panel, also. To install the ribs, use PLH polyurethane construction adhesive. To temporarily hold the cut oak in place while the PLH sets, use 3-4 1" pieces of commercial grade 3M double sided foam adhesive per rib. The PLH adhesive is the strongest such adhesive of which I am aware. It is substantially superior to Liquid Nails commercial adhesive in terms of strength. I can provide some basic illustrations if the above description is not sufficiently clear. You may have to cut out some clearance from the ribs where the 12W7 motor initially sets down into the cabinet; the motor is huge. Use a cheap jigsaw to cut the clearance slots, if needed.


-Chris
 
Last edited:
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
To the other posters: it is clear that the OP wants pretty much everything ready to go. He just wants to throw some drivers into pre-made boxes and be done with it.

OP: I know exactly what you want. There are appropriate pre-fab sub boxes available. You should add in some braces(this is not hard; just buy a cheap mitre box with manual saw and buy some 1" x 4" oak boards from your local Lowe's or Home Depot. Please refer to bottom of this post for details on bracing.

Budget will be about $2300 total in the end.

I presume you desire compact size cabinets with very high output potential with very low distortion, and this is the premise for this post's instructions/parts.

Parts Express has the appropriate pre-fabbed small sealed boxes to start with, Part No. 302-810 ($160 each/ free shipping). It has a textured black finish pre-applied. You only need to cut a hole for the driver(using a cheap jig saw), add some *bracing and install a speaker wire connector plate/terminals.

You are going to have to go with a driver that has top notch objective performance. You simply can not go with a lower cost driver for a sealed application if you want high performance. Go with JL Audio 12W7. In reality, this driver will produce 2x the output of most high quality 12" drivers(430+56 shipping = $486 each), and it will do so in a small box, and with very low distortion.
Use this link, but call and have them physically verify they have 2 units in stock before you order. I have used them before - but you MUST verify stock before ordering. Don't trust the online stock counter.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4007_JL+Audio+12W7-3.html

For the amplifier, you need around 1000Watts minimum to get high performance in a sealed cabinet with this driver. For a solution that needs no modification for fan noise, the Yamaha P7000S($696 w/shipping) should work fine. It outputs almost 1k per channel x 2, 20Hz-20,000 Hz into 4 Ohms.

Buy from here(top notch customer service): http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP7000S

To save $54 dollars, get zzounds.com to price match this site: http://www.djdeals.com/yamahaP7000S.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the P7000S, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--23162

For the xover/DSP processing, use a Behringer DCX2496($268 w/shipping).
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496

To save $32, get the zzounds.com to price match this site:
http://www.djdeals.com/behringerDCX2496.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the DCX2496, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--21573

The DCX is not optional. You must have both a proper flexible crossover and you must be able to enter parametric band filters to get the low frequency flat response. This is true for all high performance sealed systems; they have built in processing. But we are simply using external components.

The above will give superb performance, down to about 20Hz. Using carefully analyzed EQ settings (chosen based on power vs. excursion safety vs. optimal flat response), the anechoic response will be about -3 at 32Hz, -6dB at 22Hz. In room response will boost the LF a bit, giving essentially flat in-room response to 20Hz, with the above drivers, cabinets and using my specified settings for the DCX2496.

Use these settings:
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=22Hz, Q=2.0, Gain= +3.5dB (This extends LF response)
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=85Hz, Q=0.5, Gain= -2.0dB (This flattens out the inductance peak)
-Crossover: whatever is appropriate for your system.

* To brace cabinet, you will knock out the single cross brace in the cabinet. Just use a hammer to forcefully remove it. Use the 1" x 4" oak and install it all the way around the inside of the enclosure, at least 2 sets of ribs down the depth of the cabinet. Install a couple of ribs on the back panel, also. To install the ribs, use PLH polyurethane construction adhesive. To temporarily hold the cut oak in place while the PLH sets, use 3-4 1" pieces of commercial grade 3M double sided foam adhesive per rib. The PLH adhesive is the strongest such adhesive of which I am aware. It is substantially superior to Liquid Nails commercial adhesive in terms of strength. I can provide some basic illustrations if the above description is not sufficiently clear. You may have to cut out some clearance from the ribs where the 12W7 motor initially sets down into the cabinet; the motor is huge. Use a cheap jigsaw to cut the clearance slots, if needed.


-Chris
Sounds like a very thorough approach. I really wish I had the time/funds and space to try out some of your proposals. Would be nice to have some illustrations for members.

I will say if you are open to more complexity or the cabinet maker approach we can help you with that too. And the driver he mentions will work in the Kappa box with a couple of mods.

Either way you will be getting the most bang for your buck. This sub will be comparable to the JL Audio 112(a bit better actually). http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=372

combined 2 of them would cost around 4k

For 2k that's a really good deal.
 
N

Nishik

Audioholic Intern
All i can say is WOW!
I just came home and i glanced at your post and i think i have the answer to my prayers! :)
I still have to read the post. I will soon post back.
Thank you so much!

To the other posters: it is clear that the OP wants pretty much everything ready to go. He just wants to throw some drivers into pre-made boxes and be done with it.

OP: I know exactly what you want. There are appropriate pre-fab sub boxes available. You should add in some braces(this is not hard; just buy a cheap mitre box with manual saw and buy some 1" x 4" oak boards from your local Lowe's or Home Depot. Please refer to bottom of this post for details on bracing.

Budget will be about $2300 total in the end.

I presume you desire compact size cabinets with very high output potential with very low distortion, and this is the premise for this post's instructions/parts.

Parts Express has the appropriate pre-fabbed small sealed boxes to start with, Part No. 302-810 ($160 each/ free shipping). It has a textured black finish pre-applied. You only need to cut a hole for the driver(using a cheap jig saw), add some *bracing and install a speaker wire connector plate/terminals.

You are going to have to go with a driver that has top notch objective performance. You simply can not go with a lower cost driver for a sealed application if you want high performance. Go with JL Audio 12W7. In reality, this driver will produce 2x the output of most high quality 12" drivers(430+56 shipping = $486 each), and it will do so in a small box, and with very low distortion.
Use this link, but call and have them physically verify they have 2 units in stock before you order. I have used them before - but you MUST verify stock before ordering. Don't trust the online stock counter.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4007_JL+Audio+12W7-3.html

For the amplifier, you need around 1000Watts minimum to get high performance in a sealed cabinet with this driver. For a solution that needs no modification for fan noise, the Yamaha P7000S($696 w/shipping) should work fine. It outputs almost 1k per channel x 2, 20Hz-20,000 Hz into 4 Ohms.

Buy from here(top notch customer service): http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP7000S

To save $54 dollars, get zzounds.com to price match this site: http://www.djdeals.com/yamahaP7000S.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the P7000S, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--23162

For the xover/DSP processing, use a Behringer DCX2496($268 w/shipping).
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496

To save $32, get the zzounds.com to price match this site:
http://www.djdeals.com/behringerDCX2496.htm

To submit price match request to zzounds.com for the DCX2496, use this webform: http://www.zzounds.com/spy/supplier_item_id--21573

The DCX is not optional. You must have both a proper flexible crossover and you must be able to enter parametric band filters to get the low frequency flat response. This is true for all high performance sealed systems; they have built in processing. But we are simply using external components.

The above will give superb performance, down to about 20Hz. Using carefully analyzed EQ settings (chosen based on power vs. excursion safety vs. optimal flat response), the anechoic response will be about -3 at 32Hz, -6dB at 22Hz. In room response will boost the LF a bit, giving essentially flat in-room response to 20Hz, with the above drivers, cabinets and using my specified settings for the DCX2496.

Use these settings:
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=22Hz, Q=2.0, Gain= +3.5dB (This extends LF response)
-Parametric EQ: Frequency=85Hz, Q=0.5, Gain= -2.0dB (This flattens out the inductance peak)
-Crossover: whatever is appropriate for your system.

* To brace cabinet, you will knock out the single cross brace in the cabinet. Just use a hammer to forcefully remove it. Use the 1" x 4" oak and install it all the way around the inside of the enclosure, at least 2 sets of ribs down the depth of the cabinet. Install a couple of ribs on the back panel, also. To install the ribs, use PLH polyurethane construction adhesive. To temporarily hold the cut oak in place while the PLH sets, use 3-4 1" pieces of commercial grade 3M double sided foam adhesive per rib. The PLH adhesive is the strongest such adhesive of which I am aware. It is substantially superior to Liquid Nails commercial adhesive in terms of strength. I can provide some basic illustrations if the above description is not sufficiently clear. You may have to cut out some clearance from the ribs where the 12W7 motor initially sets down into the cabinet; the motor is huge. Use a cheap jigsaw to cut the clearance slots, if needed.


-Chris
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
All i can say is WOW!
I just came home and i glanced at your post and i think i have the answer to my prayers! :)
I still have to read the post. I will soon post back.
Thank you so much!
I feel I must warn you that Wmax is a audio perfectionist. You will be doing some work for sure, but if you listen to him. Let's just say your subwoofer will be amazing for music and home theater.
 
E

Exit

Audioholic Chief
If you don't have the tools (i.e. table saw, etc.) you might want to consider a subwoofer kit where all the wood pieces are precut and you just have to assemble them. Elemental Designs, Dayton and probably others offer kits which have everything you need and you don't have to figure out all the design engineering. You would need to figure out if this option would save you enough money to be worth while for your circumstances.
 
sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
I want to stray off the subject a little bit just to say this, threads like this one , imho are exactly what makes up the best forums on the net , you guys are so so helpful in the diy department that nothing else any where any time can compare not even a little bit.I for one appreciate everything you all do to help us out , thank you. Audioholics and the members are truly number one , hands down. :)

EDIT * To the o.p. best of luck with your sub and don't forget to post some pics now that you have our attention. :D
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you don't have the tools (i.e. table saw, etc.) you might want to consider a subwoofer kit where all the wood pieces are precut and you just have to assemble them. Elemental Designs, Dayton and probably others offer kits which have everything you need and you don't have to figure out all the design engineering. You would need to figure out if this option would save you enough money to be worth while for your circumstances.
Another possiblity is you get tools :D

Look on craigslist and you might get a nice deal. I got a saw for like 20 bucks. It's not the greatest, but it's good enough.

CPO-Bosch on Ebay is my other friend.:)
 
J

Jeff R.

Audioholic General
I discussed a DIY option and was very close to having ED build my custom box. It was very reasonable. It think they only wanted like $200-250 with standard finish they offer. This was a very large slot ported box for 2 x 10" drivers. Just another option for you if you do not want to do the work. Only draw back in that ED is somewhat back logged and will likely take a month or so to get it to you. I have been waiting for my second A2-300 for 5 weeks since order date and it still has not shipped.
 
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
The method WmAx suggested for this build, should yield a fantastic setup, great performance - plenty of output and superb SQ... Dual JL 12's sealed will be just awesome...

If I may add to this suggestion, the drivers in question can handle tons of power, and if you can can possibly swing the extra funds, I would shoot for Dual - Yamaha P3500S's, one per driver.... As WmAx suggested, the P7000S minimum, but the more power the better if you can swing it...

That is if it can be wired up that way, but I assume it can...
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
If i were you i would look into this Elemental Designs kit,i'm saving for mine now.It has dual 13av.2 drivers and a 1300 watt amp for just over 1K,you could get 2 with your budget.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_136&products_id=849
While the 13av.2 Ed drivers have very high output; they will not have the SQ of the W7 drivers under high power conditions. They have very average linearity. Motor strength(BL) falls off rapidly over just 1/2 the rated xmax. In addition, the Ed setup would be far less powerful than the one I specified in terms of blending the subs with the mains (DCX2496) and less flexible for the same reason.

-Chris
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
The method WmAx suggested for this build, should yield a fantastic setup, great performance - plenty of output and superb SQ... Dual JL 12's sealed will be just awesome...

If I may add to this suggestion, the drivers in question can handle tons of power, and if you can can possibly swing the extra funds, I would shoot for Dual - Yamaha P3500S's, one per driver.... As WmAx suggested, the P7000S minimum, but the more power the better if you can swing it...

That is if it can be wired up that way, but I assume it can...
The P7000S is the best option among the Yamaha amps. The Yamaha amps are not intended to drive 4 Ohm loads in bridged mode, so a P3500s per unit would not really work. The P7000s will deliver a solid 1000 RMS per channel, however. If the user wants more power, twin EP2500 amplifiers bridged would deliver almost 2000 per sub, but this also requires a dedicated 20amp line to each EP2500. Running two Ep2500 amps off of a single line would never deliver their potential power. I carefully calculated output/clipping/power scenarios in a model before suggesing the 1000 watts per W7. This will work perfectly, if the conditions and settings I specified earlier are used.

-Chris
 
Last edited:
Warpdrv

Warpdrv

Audioholic Ninja
Gottit.... I wasn't sure how the Yamaha amps would do in bridged 4ohm load
 

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