I need a GREAT 2 channel power amp! What is great? Or two monoblocks...?

GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
So this is an active speaker?
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-Powered-Speakers-Previous/dp/B000MUXJCO

Just being powered does not make it active.

Likewise, the amps not being "built in" to the speaker, does not mean it is passive, if there is no resistive attenuation.

Wikipedia agrees with me

Note that these distinctions only apply to those components listed below that would be modeled as elements within circuit analysis. Practical items that act as transducers or have other connections to the outside world, such as switches, aren't subject to this form of classification, since they defy the view of the electronic circuit as a closed system.

Given that drivers (the actual loudspeakers) are transducers, all that's left is what's between the preamp and amp or the amp and the loudspeaker - either a passive component (true for the M-Audio and Untrue for the Orion)

There can be powered, bi amped speakers with passive line level crossovers. Again, these are not active even though the amp is directly connected to the driver. But for most purposes they're just as effective as an active crossover.

An active loudspeaker <i>needs</i> an active crossover. That is the only definition. The orion crossover uses active electronic boosting to get its frequency response.

The Orion is necessarily active, but not with built-in amps. It is not functional without amps, but it is not a resistive component either.

The M-Audio is passive, but powered. All of its functions are resistitve by nature, even though it has built in amplification.

You're right in that the amplifiers are an active component, but they are not a part of the speaker, even if they're built in. The speaker is the transducer, so if you want to really get anal, there is no possible such thing as an active loudspeaker. Only a powered or unpowered speaker with an active or passive crossover. But that's just arguing semantics. Since crossovers are considered "part" of what makes a speaker a speaker, it can be part of the speaker. The amp can never be part of the speaker, even if it's built in, it is functionally doing its job to the signal, but not to the speaker. The crossover's job is to correct the speaker's inherent response, the amp's job is to correct the preamp's lack of current/voltage.

As far as subwoofers go, we might loosely call unpowered subwoofers "passive subs" but that's exactly what that is, a loose definition that's easy for people to "imagine". In reality, unless the subwoofer is in parallel with the loudspeakers with resistive attenuation between it and the amp (and this includes natural inductive rolloff, as is the case with the RBH T-series speakers), it will ultimately be part of an active loudspeaker system.
 
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Gordonj

Gordonj

Full Audioholic
Active means the crossover comes before the amplifier. The crossover tells each amp to power each driver. Like in the Orion, the XO tells one 60watts amp to drive the the tweeters, one 60watts amp to drive the midrange, and two 60watts amps to drive the 2 woofers.

In a passive speaker, the crossover comes after the amp. Essentially one amp powers all the drivers, even when they are tri-wired. Even if you tri-amp the passive speaker, most of the power still goes to the woofer. The XO directs the power to each driver, but most of that power goes to the woofers.

That's my world.:D
I'm on the same page.

My world would say - passive or full range is crossed over in the speaker with a passive crossover and one amp channel drivers the speaker ( as you said).

If you don't run passive you are bi-amping or tri-amping, etc. and using an active crossover before your amplification (as you said).

Powered speakers have built in amps.

Sorry for the redundancy...:p

Gordon
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Hmmm, what a misuse of a common electrical engineering term, that somehow an Orion loudspeaker, that is an electrically passive component, is referred to as an active loudspeaker because it has an active crossover. I'll of course back down, but saying an active crossover and an active speaker are one in the same struck me as a stretch. Whatever.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Well, this is an audio hobby, not exact science. :D

I've never heard any critic refer the Orion as a "passive" loudspeaker with an "active" crossover. I've only heard the Orion referred to as an "active" loudspeaker.

But I guess that's why Gordon asked the question.

This is an audio hobby, not exact science. And people may have different definitions. :D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Hmmm, what a misuse of a common electrical engineering term, that somehow an Orion loudspeaker, that is an electrically passive component, is referred to as an active loudspeaker because it has an active crossover.
Like I pointed out, the Prion loudspeaker itself, is not a component in an electrical circuit - it is a transducer, and the term does not apply one way or the other.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
As far as subwoofers go, we might loosely call unpowered subwoofers "passive subs" but....it will ultimately be part of an active loudspeaker system.
Wait, so my subs w/o amps are actually "active"?
 
M

mibson

Audioholic
my post has been hijacked!

I appreciate all the input by my post has been hijacked!

The bottom line is my speakers(PSB Platinum T8s) are too good for the amps I’m using (upa-2 and/or Yamaha RX-V1). I knew this from the beginning and I planned to upgrade amps when I could afford it.

Im not trying to make my stereo louder, I want to be able to turn it up to where the speakers are not being pushed too hard but also the amps are not being pushed too hard. Right now my amps are being pushed too hard and I can tell.

My speakers can handle 200 watts of constant clean power (or more), but I don’t have 200 watts of clean power.

Im thinking, is there something better for me than a XPA-2? Im willing to spend more than $1000 but if I don’t need to I wont. I do NOT want an amp with a fan in it and I don’t mind an amp being big and heavy. I am leaning towards the XPA-2 at this point….

Another way to word this, if you had my speakers what would YOU use to power them?
 
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O

ohio

Junior Audioholic
Im thinking, is there something better for me than a XPA-2? Im willing to spend more than $1000 but if I don’t need to I wont.
Have you looked into ADCOM? The GFA-555ms should run your PSBs quite a bit harder than your V1, and if not the GFA-555se definitely can. Rotels are in the same range too. The RB-1562 has similar class D specs and price and the 1582 has the power in class A/b. Beyond that, I think you'd have to dig up more cash for Parasound, Bryston and the like.

Also at 90dB sensitivity and 4ohms for those T8s, I don't think you need to find more rated power than the V1 as much as an amp that's perfectly happy at 4ohm. Since you like the Yamaha sound, I'd bet their A-S1000 integrated would actually cover it.
 
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Gordonj

Gordonj

Full Audioholic
I appreciate all the input by my post has been hijacked!

The bottom line is my speakers(PSB Platinum T8s) are too good for the amps I’m using (upa-2 and/or Yamaha RX-V1). I knew this from the beginning and I planned to upgrade amps when I could afford it.

Im not trying to make my stereo louder, I want to be able to turn it up to where the speakers are not being pushed too hard but also the amps are not being pushed too hard. Right now my amps are being pushed too hard and I can tell.

My speakers can handle 200 watts of constant clean power (or more), but I don’t have 200 watts of clean power.

Im thinking, is there something better for me than a XPA-2? Im willing to spend more than $1000 but if I don’t need to I wont. I do NOT want an amp with a fan in it and I don’t mind an amp being big and heavy. I am leaning towards the XPA-2 at this point….

Another way to word this, if you had my speakers what would YOU use to power them?
The XPA-2 is a fine amp and can easily take care of your T8's. With that configuration you will have good headroom (500watts @ 4ohms), with more then enough power. And no fans and a good sounding amp that can easily take care of the load.

Gordon
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I appreciate all the input by my post has been hijacked!

The bottom line is my speakers(PSB Platinum T8s) are too good for the amps I’m using (upa-2 and/or Yamaha RX-V1). I knew this from the beginning and I planned to upgrade amps when I could afford it.

Im not trying to make my stereo louder, I want to be able to turn it up to where the speakers are not being pushed too hard but also the amps are not being pushed too hard. Right now my amps are being pushed too hard and I can tell.

My speakers can handle 200 watts of constant clean power (or more), but I don’t have 200 watts of clean power.

Im thinking, is there something better for me than a XPA-2? Im willing to spend more than $1000 but if I don’t need to I wont. I do NOT want an amp with a fan in it and I don’t mind an amp being big and heavy. I am leaning towards the XPA-2 at this point….

Another way to word this, if you had my speakers what would YOU use to power them?
Let me guess.

You want a truly fully-balanced high-end stereo 200wpc amp from the likes of Mark Levinson and Lexicon.

Well, ATI makes the OEM for them. ATI also make amps for JBL & Cary Audio. ATI now also owns the high-end Theta Digital and B&K.

So if you want a truly high-end amp, get this ATI AT2002 amp for $1495.

Actually, I would keep an eye for a sale. All the ATI amps I've bought were 50% off with full 7 yr warranty. They may just lower the price on this one to $1K.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...if an active crossover precedes it, yes, it would seem to be.
I'm perfectly fine with that. But is my Denon AVR-5308CI the "active crossover" in this case?

The signal goes from AVR-5308 to Crown XLS2500 Amp to Subwoofer.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I'm perfectly fine with that. But is my Denon AVR-5308CI the "active crossover" in this case?

The signal goes from AVR-5308 to Crown XLS2500 Amp to Subwoofer.
Going out on a limb here, yes, because the Denon acts as an active crossover limiting the bandwidth to the sub. Where the amp is irrelevant apparently, so long as the crossover is in the circuit before the amp, and it is.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Going out on a limb here, yes, because the Denon acts as an active crossover limiting the bandwidth to the sub. Where the amp is irrelevant apparently, so long as the crossover is in the circuit before the amp, and it is.
So......do non-powered subs have built-in crossovers, especially since the only frequency going to the subs will be ~ 20Hz-100Hz?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
So......do non-powered subs have built-in crossovers, especially since the only frequency going to the subs will be ~ 20Hz-100Hz?
I've never seen an unpowered sub with a built-in crossover, but my market knowledge is pretty limited. For example, the Velodyne SC-15 is unpowered, and does not have an internal crossover. What about your unpowered FA 18.0s? I didn't think they included crossovers in the unpowered versions either.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've never seen an unpowered sub with a built-in crossover, but my market knowledge is pretty limited. For example, the Velodyne SC-15 is unpowered, and does not have an internal crossover. What about your unpowered FA 18.0s? I didn't think they included crossovers in the unpowered versions either.
I just sent Nathan Funk an email and asked him about that. :D

I don't see the point of having a crossover in a unpowered sub since it only has one driver, but you never know.:D

BTW, I'm running dual Velodyne SC-600IF unpowered subs in my family room. Not bad.

Man, we are really jacking this thread pretty well! :eek: :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Just got email back from Nathan. The subs do not have any built-in XO.

Of course, the powered subs come with plate amps that have built-in XO. Since the unpowered subs don't have these amps, they don't have the XO either.

So......in the one definition which I subscribe to, my non-powered subs are all "active" subs since the XO in the pre-pro comes before the amp. :D ;)
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Man, we are really jacking this thread pretty well! :eek: :D
I mentioned sticking to the OP's topic once many threads ago, and was given a lecture in public by a moderator to the effect that meandering like this is encouraged.
 
Gordonj

Gordonj

Full Audioholic
So......in the one definition which I subscribe to, my non-powered subs are all "active" subs since the XO in the pre-pro comes before the amp. :D ;)
Subs are not active in this case. Saying that a sub is active would infer that the sub had a XO on board and they normally do not (unless from a powered version). But yes you have to have some sort of way to band limit the input freq. if that is by an active XO or a passive XO from a speaker is to be determined.

So i would just say "un-powered sub" or maybe - "plain-olde-dumb-sub" - that has a ring to it....;)

Gordon
 
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