I Feel Fuzzy

[Seth=L]

I really don't know what is at work inside my brain, maybe someone can help me here.

After 4 years of searching for the elusive Teac Reference gear my quest has come to an end. I've sampled a large portion of the line starting with the CR-H220 CD/Receiver, then a A-H300 integrated amplifier, AG-H300 receiver, PD-H300 CD player, AG-H500 receiver, PD-H570 CD changer, A-H500 integrated amplifier, RW-H500 CD recorder, T-H500 tuner, PD-H300 CD changer (broken), and finally an AG-H550. The AG-H550 was the last piece I acquired and was the foundation of my search from the beginning for it's stunning looks and expectations of excellent sound quality matching it's looks.

When I finally got the AG-H550 I enjoyed it, it sounded great, had plenty of power. It edged out the A-H500 for final output, but probably only because of the lack of a high pass crossover in the integrated amplifier.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago. I am browsing listings on eBay and come across this.

The Panasonic SA-XR70 is a 6.1 receiver with Class D amplifiers designed by Texas Instruments. I thought to myself "this looks like a good deal". I found it was a fantastic deal, certainly worth giving a try for the price and it had the original box, packing materials, remote, etc...

I hooked it up to the same speakers and subwoofer in the exact same position and was surprised at what I heard. I honestly didn't expect much. I figured if I didn't like it I could put it back up on eBay at no loss to me. Well let's just say it's replaced the AG-H550 after a few listening test. The bass is more defined (lower oddly) and the sound stage really opened up.

Now I feel fuzzy (title) and unable to comprehend exactly why the receiver sounds so much different. I've been told a few different things (most of which I don't fully understand because it goes over my head).

 

[MinusTheBear]

Perhaps you are experiencing a placebo effect.

 

[digicidal]

Although minus may be correct about the placebo effect... usually that only comes into play when trying to justify how much you overpaid for a piece of equipment... not how much you underpaid for it.

At a guess it has to do with the way the ClassD amp interacts with your speakers... and I would guess that much of the euphoria will rapidly dissipate if you crank that sucker up to a decently loud volume. However, if you never intend to do that... the cheap and easy power can be addictive I would guess.

Part of the reason that I'm determined to build myself a pair of ICEPower monoblocks one of these days. I've seen the modules up on ebay for about $700 a pair and it would be pretty hard to match that output for the cost.

I'd say you're just confused... but I bought a stupidly overpriced little tube amp awhile ago and I love it (within reason) so I guess the end result is... WHO CARES?!?! Just enjoy it and the great deal you got on it.

 

[GranteedEV]

Not placebo effect...when in doubt, look at the measurements!

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/switching-amplifiers-the-technology-and-the-issues/switching-amplifiers-the-technology-and-the-issues-page-3

and for some subjective comparisions:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/marantz-pm-11s1-integrated-amplifier/pm-11s1-listening-tests-full-range.html

Basically, this panasonic is the class D equivalent of a SET amp.

 

[markw]

Sometimes, it's best to just sit back and enjoy it wothout intellectualizing it.

I love listening to my vintage Marantz 22xx series receivers paired to a pair of equally vintage JBL L-26 Decades. I know that, given todays technology, these can be trashed by virtually anyone or anything "decent" made today but, for me, the way they do classic rock is pretty much unbeatable and provides me a comfortable, perhaps decadent, haven in toay's overcomplex world.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I probably missed it, but did you listen to both in Direct Mode or Stereo Mode?

Perhaps the Teac has some processing (DSP/EQ) and the Panasonic does not (Direct)?

I recall a similar experience, kind of.

I compared a $1,500 Pioneer stand-alone processor to a $500 HK receiver. The HK receiver had a Direct Mode, but the Pioneer did not give me a choice since it only had Stereo mode or some other modes. Well, the HK receiver sounded much better and less compressed - more bass and everything was clearer.

 

[Seth=L]

I wish there was more in the way of benchtest information about the receiver. S&V had a measurements for the SA-XR70, but they've magically disappeared.

 

[Seth=L]

I probably missed it, but did you listen to both in Direct Mode or Stereo Mode?

Perhaps the Teac has some processing (DSP/EQ) and the Panasonic does not (Direct)?

I recall a similar experience, kind of.

I compared a $1,500 Pioneer stand-alone processor to a $500 HK receiver. The HK receiver had a Direct Mode, but the Pioneer did not give me a choice since it only had Stereo mode or some other modes. Well, the HK receiver sounded much better and less compressed - more bass and everything was clearer.

The Panasonic has a HQ audio mode akin to direct mode, but it yields n sonic changes. The Teac was configured in a strange way. It didn't apply the high pass crossover while in stereo mode so I was forced to set all speakers but the fronts to none and apply Dolby Pro Logic to make the most of the receiver's power. The soundstage was set the same as if the Teac was in stereo.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Panasonic has a HQ audio mode akin to direct mode...The Teac was configured in a strange way...as if the Teac was in stereo.

That explains it.

I recently did Audyssey on my Denon AVP-A1HDCI with the Orion speakers.

With Audyssey & Audyssey Flat EQ, the Orion soundstage was a little compressed.

When I went to Direct Mode, which automatically turned off all EQs (Audyssey), the soundstage immediately opened up again.

In your example, the Panasonic was just more "pure" and direct so the soundstage had no compression. The soundstage immediately opened up.

The Teac most likely had some kind of signal processing or EQ going on so the soundstage was a little compressed (did not open up like the Panasonic).

That is why I prefer Direct and Pure Direct.

 

[GranteedEV]

I wish there was more in the way of benchtest information about the receiver. S&V had a measurements for the SA-XR70, but they've magically disappeared.

I really doubt it's too different from the XR50 discussed in the links I posted... it's the same line, different models. it's definitely adding a tube like coloration to the sound based on the speakers' impedance profile.

 

[digicidal]

I really doubt it's too different from the XR50 discussed in the links I posted... it's the same line, different models. it's definitely adding a tube like coloration to the sound based on the speakers' impedance profile.

Stop it... you're making me want to go buy one of them now. All rational discussion aside... if someone handed me a SET amp with close to 70W output (assuming a similar reduction from the stated max for distortion sake) and told me I could have it for anything less than $600... it would be a long done deal.

Of course, I would not get to look at those yummy glowing tubes (which I admit to being nearly 50% of my love of those 'crappy' tube amps)... so ~$300 would probably be more in line.

 

[Seth=L]

They frequently sell for around $150 on eBay, so it's 1/2 of your perceived value.

I am enjoying the hell out of the SA-XR70.