HT upgrade for a novice.

[Jake Franklin]

Hey all, been reading on this site for about a week have learned a lot but was hoping to get a little more specific guidance.

Posted is a screen shot of a list of my setup. I recently moved into my first house and for the first time really got to crank on my system and adjust the sound quality to a more permanent setting. Going to an open 12x20 room sounded a lot different than the apartments I was used to.

According to suggestions on this site it looks like the most worthwhile upgrade would be a newer receiver that supports lossless audio followed by a second subwoofer. Suggestions on both would be great. Would prefer to stay with klipsch just because I like the looks and enjoy having matching speakers.

I'll post a picture of the room soon but it only has three walls and on the wall opposite the tv/center channel the couch sits in a "pocket". I have moved the couch out about a foot to help with reverb but I think sound dampening curtains will be needed to get the boomy sound down. Other than that I know I need to upgrade my speaker wire, surrounds are about 50 ft of 16 guage so I think that would make a difference too.

Any and all suggestions are welcome and thanks in advance.

Price range for receiver and sub are 600-700 a piece. Wish I could go higher but I have an engagement ring to pay for lol.

Noticed a mistake in my fronts I listed. They are RF-10 towers. The R-10b is the sound bar i have in the bedroom.

 

[Jake Franklin]

Here are some pictures of the room. A little bit more info about what I'm looking for, I want at least a 7.2 channel receiver in case I decide to run 7 channels or two height channels on the front. Don't really want to go lower than 90 watts her channel which is what I have currently.

For the sub not sure if it would be better to get a "lesser" 12 inch sub or a better 10 inch for the same price. I listen to music more so now than ever since getting the house and would love something that thumps my chest, my current sub comes close but isn't quite enough. For movies and games it is pretty good.

Placement suggestions are also welcome but I have certain restraints for ascetic reasons from the permanent female roommate lol

 

[Jake Franklin]

Picture size is too large to upload from phone camera, will see if I can get picture of the room if that helps.

 

[shadyJ]

A few things to think about:

You will not be able to get a 7 channel receiver with 90 watts per channel amplification. You will need outboard amplification for that, or a very expensive AVR. The purported specs for all channels driven on most AVRs are usually completely bogus. In your price range, I would just look at what you can get from Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha.

For a sub in the 600 to 700 range, here is a recent article that is perfect for you. That should be able to help you. Any of those subs are a lot better than what is sold in stores for the same price.

50 ft of 16 AWG is pretty bad. That will most certainly affect the frequency response. Here is an article about speaker wire gauge vs distance. You will need heavy-duty wire for a 50 ft run.

 

[Jake Franklin]

Wow, not sure how I missed that article but you're right, got a lot of options to look into just based on that. And the speaker wire will get ordered as soon as my next paycheck gets deposited. Going to get some 10 guage and 14x4 for the front channels.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wow, not sure how I missed that article but you're right, got a lot of options to look into just based on that. And the speaker wire will get ordered as soon as my next paycheck gets deposited. Going to get some 10 guage and 14x4 for the front channels.

Is the 14x4 for passive bi-amping? I'd not bother, just a waste of wire really.

 

[Jake Franklin]

Yeah, already bi amping the fronts. Basically just a because I can thing since I'm not using back surrounds, would I be better off using 10 guage and not bothering to bi amp?

When I was playing with different wiring options I thought I could hear a little more mid range reaponse but it could have just been me wanting to hear a difference so I'm open to what others have found. Any suggestions on where to buy speaker wire? Blue Jean cables?

 

[shadyJ]

Blue Jeans is solid. Good wire and not over-priced.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, already bi amping the fronts. Basically just a because I can thing since I'm not using back surrounds, would I be better off using 10 guage and not bothering to bi amp?

When I was playing with different wiring options I thought I could hear a little more mid range reaponse but it could have just been me wanting to hear a difference so I'm open to what others have found. Any suggestions on where to buy speaker wire? Blue Jean cables?

I simply buy 100-250ft reels of 12g and cut to length needed, terminate with Sewell Silverback banana plugs when I anticipate changing frequently enough to bother. Passive biamping is much more marketing than substance IMO.

 

[Jake Franklin]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'm using banana plugs on the receiver end but those Sewell ones look like they're a little bit better quality.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXA770/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-RX-A770.html?tp=179&awkw=336652566204&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=193580248228&awdv=m&awug=9022129

Looking at this receiver, I've been very happy with the Yamaha i own and the new 770 is the same price as the 760 that's out now. If I decide to upgrade my fronts to RP-260f's down the road would this receiver be enough to properly push those speakers?

Also while browsing the SVS subs on Amazon I saw I could get a klipsch R-112SW with their wireless kit for 649. Having a little bit of freedom to place the sub would be nice and I think it looks amazing but would I be giving up that much quality going with that over the svs Sb2000 or Hsu vtf-2 mk5

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'm using banana plugs on the receiver end but those Sewell ones look like they're a little bit better quality.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXA770/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-RX-A770.html?tp=179&awkw=336652566204&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=193580248228&awdv=m&awug=9022129

Looking at this receiver, I've been very happy with the Yamaha i own and the new 770 is the same price as the 760 that's out now. If I decide to upgrade my fronts to RP-260f's down the road would this receiver be enough to properly push those speakers?

Also while browsing the SVS subs on Amazon I saw I could get a klipsch R-112SW with their wireless kit for 649. Having a little bit of freedom to place the sub would be nice and I think it looks amazing but would I be giving up that much quality going with that over the svs Sb2000 or Hsu vtf-2 mk5

Best thIng I like about the Silverback plug is the dual set screw vs crimp style, much more secure when tugged on IME. The Klipsch speakers are fairly sensitive and wouldn't worry too much about the amp section unless long distances between you and speakers at high playback spl.

 

[shadyJ]

... but would I be giving up that much quality going with that over the svs Sb2000 or Hsu vtf-2 mk5

Yes, you would. By the way, in your room and with the content you enjoy, you should go with a ported subwoofer. I would be looking at the Outlaw, Hsu, or RBH sub from that article. From SVS, look at the PC-2000 or PB-2000. You might also look at the Hsu VTF-3 mk5, its a bit more expensive at $900 shipped, but it will wreck any of these 12"s with no problem.

 

[Jake Franklin]

Okay, taking a hard look at the Hsu research vtf2 mk5. The 15 inch woofer on the vtf3 might be a little too much for my room size but I'm not sure. Thinking the vtf2 and the klipsch sub I already have will do what I need. Thanks for the help.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would personally consider leaving the avr for now and doubling the sub budget. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html
Also agree don't bother bi-wiring, and 12ga is plenty enough. Klipsch subs, for the most part are not highly regarded and as you've found out already, the bigger room is already a lot different. I think the klipsch are easy enough to drive and with a real subwoofer your system would be transformed enough to hold off upgraditis until you can afford more upgrades. And maybe matching earrings...lol

 

[Jake Franklin]

Well there are other issues with the avr, it only has one sub output and there is a handshake issue between that receiver my PS4 and the TV so unless I like the screen blacking out every couple seconds I have to Output the audio on my PS4 through an optical cable and Route the HDMI straight to the TV so I am even losing out on the HDMI audio quality.

I am planning on getting a 4K HDR TV for that room also and a 4K Blu-ray player. My girlfriend is much more into video quality so that would make her happy. It would be nice to have something that at least has 4k pass through and supports the new HD audio formats at least dts-hd.

With that being said should still just get a better sub and wait on the rest?

Also I am happy to report she doesn't wear earrings

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay, taking a hard look at the Hsu research vtf2 mk5. The 15 inch woofer on the vtf3 might be a little too much for my room size but I'm not sure. Thinking the vtf2 and the klipsch sub I already have will do what I need. Thanks for the help.

Hard to know what people think about a sub being too much for a room when the usual problem is using sub without enough capability...it's a matter of integration and use. The Hsu sub is a very good one, doubtful you'd go "wrong" using it, and actually just the opposite. It's about integration, not whether the sub diameter is of a certain size or not. I use multiple 18" subs in my main room because it (the room) is fairly large, and while I can make them "too much" I prefer to have them blend in....

 

[lovinthehd]

Well there are other issues with the avr, it only has one sub output and there is a handshake issue between that receiver my PS4 and the TV so unless I like the screen blacking out every couple seconds I have to Output the audio on my PS4 through an optical cable and Route the HDMI straight to the TV so I am even losing out on the HDMI audio quality.

I am planning on getting a 4K HDR TV for that room also and a 4K Blu-ray player. My girlfriend is much more into video quality so that would make her happy. It would be nice to have something that at least has 4k pass through and supports the new HD audio formats at least dts-hd.

With that being said should still just get a better sub and wait on the rest?

Also I am happy to report she doesn't wear earrings

Many avrs with dual sub outputs are merely an internal split like you can do with an adapter/cable. When an avr has actual separate delay/level settings for subs is when that makes a difference as to how many rca ports it has (you can easily have an internal splitter like a cable if the avr is not capable of separate level/delay settings for the ".2" subs....)

 

[Jake Franklin]

Okay, I didn't realize that I could just use an external splitter. I guess that makes sense since subs already have their own amp... Okay i guess it would be nice to have a sub that I didn't have to turn the gain knob to 3 o clock or better to get to where I'm happy with it haha.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me out.

Just measured and it will fit where the klipsch sub is now. If that's what I end up doing is the monoprice RCA splitter and 12 guage wire decent stuff? Looks like it has good reviews and I can get 250 ft for about 60 dollars. Any thing wrong with sticking that klipsch sub in the opposite corner of the room even if it's behind a recliner?

 

[Pogre]

Okay, taking a hard look at the Hsu research vtf2 mk5. The 15 inch woofer on the vtf3 might be a little too much for my room size but I'm not sure. Thinking the vtf2 and the klipsch sub I already have will do what I need. Thanks for the help.

Oh no, my friend. The 15" will blend in very nicely. If you can swing the dinero that's definitely what I'd go with... er, did go with.

Those are a pair of VTF-3 MK5's.

I had all the same reservations you did, but I had already upgraded subs twice before (from Klipsch to entry level SVS) and this time I went with something I won't be upgrading for a nice long time. It's a hit at first, but a good vaccination against upgrade-itis in the future. I'm not a booming banging bass kind of guy. I let room calibration do its thing and give the subs a 3db bump like most of us do.

The bass is tight, musical and deep in all the right ways and thunderous when you want it to be. I thought I'd be using it mostly as a sealed sub, but experimentation with the different settings I discovered I like both ports open and a high q. There's a lot you can do with them tuning wise.

I can almost guarantee you you'll be shocked at how much some good, clean bass will make your whole system sound better across the entire range. I was floored. Even if you went with the PB2000 or the MK-2. Good clean bass is underrated. Upgrading my subs made more difference than almost anything I've done, including amplification.

I don't know much about your particular model, but the Klipsch sub (RPW10) I had was blown away by a SB1000. That's entry level for SVS. It sounded so good by itself that I didn't even use the RPW with it because it made things sound worse. I got a second SB1000 and sold the RPW.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

+pogre