HT system, $2k budget

L

llamaattack

Audiophyte
Hi!

I'm very new to this and could really use some help picking out a setup for my living room. The room is about 16x14 (in a condo).

My goals are:

1. Great sound for movies.

2. Great sound for music.

3. Stream music from my computer.

4. Wireless rear channel speakers (I'm renting the condo and there is no good way to run the wires).

Currently I have the following:

Sharp Aquos LC-52LE700UN TV.
DirectTV Tivo
Playstation 3
Xbox 360
Nintendo Wii

My budget is around $2k, though of course I'd be happy to stay under it.

So....any advice?
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Warlord
I can point you to some items to check out, but you probably have much reading to do and people on here will want more details to really make the right recs for your situation.

This thread would be a good place to start
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/80742-$2500-complete-system-any-newbie-should-buy-take-advantage-summer.html

The Pioneer's are budget speakers getting rave reviews right now
Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Speaker System | Home Theater

I use the Rocketfish Wireless HD for my surrounds. 1 transmitter and 1 receiver on either side of the room (but 1 receiver can do 2 channels but it didn't work out for me with only 1). It works as advertised, probably better products out there, but I really have no complaints about it. You can find them for half of MSRP on Ebay. Also, check out Aperion Audio for wireless solutions.
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
There are lots of choices out there for streaming music from your computer. If you use iTunes as your front end for music, airplay is a good (and fairly straightforward) way to go.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Hi there! Welcome to the forum :)

That's a nice, manageable size for a room, and reasonable desires for your budget.

I'd recommend that you start with the Denon AVR-1912 for $330 from accessories4less.com as your AV Receiver.

First, a word about accessories4less (A4L). They are a fully authorized dealer for the Denon, Marantz and Onkyo products (and a number of other brands). They mark all of the items they sell as "refurbished". A4L is the authorized, online, "clearance" retailer for Denon, Onkyo, etc. Many of the units they sell are literally brand new and merely being cleared out of inventory. Any items that are "open box" or actually refurbished units are 100% fully functional and good as new. And everthing comes with a full 1 year warranty from the manufacturers - no 90 day BS here! :)

So A4L is the best way to get great discounts on fully authorized products that still have a full 1 year manufacturer's warranty. I know that sometimes people are turned off by the "refurbished" label. In this case, you should not let it deter you at all.

All of that said, Best Buy is clearing out many of the Denon Receiver models right now. In your case, I would urge you to stick with the AVR-1912 specifically. The AVR-1913 would also be fine...UNLESS you want AM radio. For some very strange reason that I cannot figure out at all, Denon removed the AM radio tuners from the newest AVR-xx13 models. If you don't care at all about AM radio, then the AVR-1913 is essentially identical to the AVR-1912 otherwise.

The AVR-1912 is a really nice AV Receiver with all of the features you're looking for. The big feature for you is its ethernet network connection. With that, you can connect to your home network. That will allow you to easily stream content from your PC, use Apple AirPlay, or use any of the built-in internet streaming or internet radio services.

Do note that it is a wired ethernet connection, though. If you have your AV equipment close to where you also have your modem and wireless router, then it is easy - you simply use an ethernet cable to connect the AVR-1912 to your wireless router. But if your wireless router is far away and you need to connect the AVR-1912 wirelessly, you'll have to purchase a bridge. I'm not sure how familiar you are with home networking. You're probably well familiar since you use your computer for playing content. But just in case any of this is new to you, a bridge is just a device that allows you to use an ethernet wire to connect the AVR-1912 to the bridge, and then the bridge connects to your home WiFi network. It's pretty easy, but I just wanted to make sure you are aware that the AVR-1912 only has a wired ethernet connection. It does not have WiFi, nor any way to connect a WiFi USB dongle. It does have a USB port, but it does not support WiFi over USB.

Other than that, it has Audyssey MultEQ for pretty good automatic setup and room correction. It has one component video input that gets up-converted to HDMI. So you can connect your Wii using component video for 480p output and still just have the one HDMI connection between the AVR-1912 and your television.

The HDMI ports all support 3D and HD Audio. And it's generally just a good AV Receiver with nice, easy to use menus, and high quality amplifiers built in. It's a solid choice. The AVR-1913 is fine if you don't need AM Radio. If Best Buy has a great price, then grab one! If not, accessories4less has you covered ;)

For speakers, I'll offer you a couple of good choices:

1) If you'd like larger, floorstanding speakers up front, then there is no better choice in your price range than the Pioneer 2nd Generation (all model numbers end in a "2" ;) ) Andrew Jones speakers.

You would want to get the SP-FS52 tower Front speakers (they are sold individually, so make sure you buy two!), and the matching SP-C22 Center speaker.

Best Buy, TigerDirect, parts-express, B&H Photo, and Amazon are the 5 current authorized dealers - along with buying directly on the Pioneer website. Prices fluctuate a bit, and any of those 5 retailers might have lower prices on a given day. You can often find the SP-FS52 tower speakers for $100 each instead of $130. The SP-C22 doesn't go much cheaper than the $99 MSRP, but it's sometimes as low as about $90. So if you want to save every dollar possible, just check all 5 retailers when you're ready to buy and see which of them has the best prices that day!

2) If you would like smaller speakers, or if you have less than ideal placement of your speakers, then I would highly recommend the Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE speakers . Ascend only sells direct on their website. And there is a small discount when you buy more than one product from them. The HTM-200SE are $298/pair. And then you can use the drop down menu on the page there to also get a Center speaker version for $158. Buying the pair and the Center together gets you a nice little $28 discount :)

When I mention ideal placement, I'm talking about following the THX Speaker Placement Guidelines as closely as you can.

I am also talking about possibilities like mounting the speakers on the wall, having the speakers placed inside a bookshelf or an entertainment unit, or otherwise having less than about a foot or more of free air all around the speakers. Floorstanding tower speakers like the SP-FS52 are designed to have air all around them. If you have to place them very close to a wall, they won't sound as good - there will be a bit of a "bloated" sound and too much bass and resonance. And any speakers that are rear ported - such as the Pioneer speakers - really should not be placed in a bookshelf or other type of shelving unit.

The Ascend HTM-200SE speakers are designed to handle less than ideal placement much better than most other speakers. They are sealed (no ports), and they have a "nested" driver layout that allows you to put the HTM-200SE speakers closer to a wall or in a bookshelf or shelving unit without degrading the sound quality too much. I really like recommending the HTM-200SE because they will work for almost any situation so long as your room isn't too big. Your room size is fine for them.

So, anyways, those would be my two top recommendations for your Front 3 speakers. It should be fairly easy for you to decide which option - the Pioneers or the Ascends - will work best for you :)

continued...
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
continued...

Next, let's get you a really good subwoofer. If there is one component where you should NEVER skimp, it is the subwoofer. Making a subwoofer that can play low and loud, but still stay accurate and clean at the same time is quite difficult. You really cannot cut corners. If you do, it is very obvious that the sound quality has been compromised.

For a room your size, I would highly recommend the HSU STF-2 . It's $350, which is honestly about as inexpensive as anyone can make a subwoofer before you really start to notice the quality going down. It's a very nice subwoofer that is just right for your room size. It might be physically bigger than you'd expect. Make sure you take note of its 17" tall x 14" wide x 17" deep dimensions and really understand how large that is. But again, there is no cheating physics and no cutting corners when it comes to good bass. It takes what it takes. And the STF-2 is of the highest value. No corners cut, and not a penny wasted.

Being in an apartment, you will also find it VITAL to damp your subwoofer's connection to the floor. Especially with a downward-firing desing like the STF-2, which must use "feet" on the bottom to give the driver room to fire downward. Damping just means having some sort of shock absorber in between the "feet" of your subwoofer and the floor. If you put the "feet" directly on the floor, every vibration of the subwoofer when it plays will get transmitted directly into the floor, and the floor will start to vibrate in sympathy with the subwoofer. When the floor vibrates, so do the walls, and so does the ceiling! They're all connected. This is called structure-borne sound transmission, as opposed to the airborne sound that we're all used to. It's just like when you put your ear to a train track and can hear the train coming from miles and miles away, even if you stand up and cannot hear the sound of the train just through the air. Structure-borne sound can travel really easily, and this is why you can so easily hear bass thumping away in other apartments, even when you cannot hear the higher notes. Bass really gets structures moving! But if you damp the connection between the subwoofer and the floor, you really cut down on this structure-borne sound transmission. That means happier neighbors, and it means you get to play your subwoofer at a reasonable volume without bothering them! So it is WELL worth it.

Like I say, damping just means having some sort of shock absorber. You can make your own by just having some sort of platform for the subwoofer to stand on, and then some layers of nice, thick carpet underlayment, or some packing foam or something like that in between the platform and the floor. You want something that is squishy enough to act as a good shock absorber, but still stiff enough to not get crushed by the weight of the subwoofer.

There are ready-made damping platforms. The most popular come from a company called Auralex. Auralex has the SubDude, which is 15" x 15", and the GRAMMA, which is 15" x 23". The STF-2 will JUST fit on the SubDude. Even though the STF-2 is 17" deep, the "feet" are in about 1.5" from the outer edges, so it JUST fits on the 15" long SubDude. If you want a slightly more stable platform though, the GRAMMA easily holds the STF-2, or perfectly fits the larger HSU VTF-2 MK4 subwoofer, which is a really terrific subwoofer for $550 (currently on sale) if you want to spend more and go even bigger and louder and deeper than the STF-2 ;)

Both the SubDude and GRAMMA are widely available and go for about $50. So if you don't want to spend that much, you can certainly make your own damping platform. But the SubDude and GRAMMA look nice and aren't insanely expensive or anything, so they're still a good option, and easy to recommend.

Now there's the matter of your Surround speakers. I'm honestly not informed enough about the current wireless option to offer good advice. Hopefully someone else can step in :eek:

If you find a solution that let's you connect any speakers you like as the Surrounds, then the Pioneer speakers have the SP-BS22-LR model that would match the SP-FS52 and SP-C22 Fronts. With the Ascends, you could simply get another pair of HTM-200SE, or opt for something a little cheaper, like the Emotiva XRM-4.1 , which are a good enough sonic match to the Ascend speakers for Surround duty, and very affordable :)

Lastly, head on over to monoprice.com to get all of your cables and wires and accessories. You won't find better prices than Monoprice. They almost look too good to be true! But Monoprice is the one exception to that rule. They sell the exact same Chinese manufactured cables and wires as pretty much every other brand out there. They simply cut out all the middle men and only take a very small margin. Monoprice shows you just how cheap cables and wires ACTUALLY are, and just how much everybody else is ripping you off on those items! These aren't cheap because they're bad, they're cheap because they're not marked up 1000%! Same stuff. Same Chinese factories. So buy from Monoprice. There's literally no benefit to paying more, other than looks, possibly ;)

You'll need a subwoofer cable . Make sure you figure out where things are going to be placed so that you can order the right length. Or just buy a few different lengths - they're so affordable! :D

You'll want several HDMI cables if you don't already have them. I'd make sure to buy "High Speed" certified. Again, they're so inexpensive, and High Speed are certified to always pass 3D and higher resolutions without problems, so better to be safe.

You'll need speaker wire . Again, figure out how much you'll need beforehand. And might as well order extra. Easy to forget extra length for height, or routing around corners or in behind things. Monoprice has clear jacket and white jacket. For any lengths longer than 40 feet, use 12 AWG. Under 40 feet 14 AWG is fine. With wire, the higher the Gauge number, the thinner the wire ;)

I'd also highly recommend grabbing some Banana Plugs - especially for the connection to the AV Receiver. I usually just use bare wire to connect to the speakers, but for connecting the other end to the AV Receiver, Banana Plugs are SO much more convenient. There's a video on the page I linked to if you need instructions on how to connect the speaker wire to the Banana Plugs. It's really easy.

I don't know if you already have Wii Component Video cables , but if you don't, Monoprice even has those! You should use Component Video if you aren't already. Make the Wii look as good as it is able. It's not HD, but 480p is better than nothing! Certainly better than the horrible Composite 480i cable that comes with the system.

That should about do it! Hope that's of some help. You should be well within budget with all of this. And it'll be a really nice system.

Enjoy!
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
With the black friday deals going on rit enow, you have a lot more options than normally...
E55ti Emp tec towers with the smaller center for like $600,
$450 709 from a4l {I like this receiver, some dont, but I do, have seen lots of them work for a long time with no problems}...
HSU vtf2 sub $600
then for surrounds, how about...
then for surrounds, wireless is tough, do at least have the option to wire them together, like left to right?
There are no wireless speakers that dont need at least power plugged in... I would figure out the wiring, you can always run them exposed thats not against the law...





Onkyo TX-NR709 7.2-Channel 3-D Ready Network A/V Receiver | Accessories4less
 
L

llamaattack

Audiophyte
Wow!

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm off to turkey dinner, but will post some detailed replies when I get home. I'm overwhelmed by how awesome all of you are. :)

For a couple of quick responses: I can definitely wire power to the rear speakers and could wire them together. The only problem is the connection from the front. I can't modify the walls in my place and the floor is hardwood so I can't hide it under the carpet. I'd just run it in the open, but then there's a reasonable chance I'd be getting a new audio system and losing a GF. :p
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
Wow!

Thanks for the responses so far! I'm off to turkey dinner, but will post some detailed replies when I get home. I'm overwhelmed by how awesome all of you are. :)

For a couple of quick responses: I can definitely wire power to the rear speakers and could wire them together. The only problem is the connection from the front. I can't modify the walls in my place and the floor is hardwood so I can't hide it under the carpet. I'd just run it in the open, but then there's a reasonable chance I'd be getting a new audio system and losing a GF. :p
Good audio systems are harder to replace . . . . :D
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Speaking of BF deals - I heard emp's 1010 sub in last AH GTG and for $300 you can't beat it.
will all due respect to vtf-2 a pair of 1010s will kick it's nuts
 
Send Margaritas

Send Margaritas

Audioholic
Wow, FirstReflection gets my vote for sainthood. His good deed for the day: check.
 
L

llamaattack

Audiophyte
FirstReflection, you are awesome.

First, I want to thank you for your responses so far. I feel like I'm learning a lot. :)

That Denon AVR-1912 from A4L looks great. From what I've read it sounds like a pain to setup, but I do nerd stuff for a living so hopefully I'd be able to stumble through it. :) It's fine that it has a wired only connection. I'm very familiar with networking, so setting up a bridge will be trivial.

I'm not concerned about AM radio at all. Other than that, are there any significant differences between the 1912 and 1913? Also, are there any other models I should look at?

Speaker time now. :)

The SP-FS52 look very nice as well. I took a look at the THX Speaker Placement Guidelines and I think my furniture and room setup can match the desired 5.1 configuration fairly easily. It'll require a bit of shuffling, but I think it can be done. Those speakers don't look particularly wide (but I'd want to look at the measurements), so I think both could have about 1 foot of space on each side.

The Ascends are also interesting. It sounds like if I can make the SP-FS52s work spacewise they are the better option. Am I interpreting you correctly?

How do the SP-FS52s compare to the EMP Tek E55Ti that another poster recommended? Objective or subjective thoughts are fine. :)


Your advice on the subwoofer sounds very good. I'm a car audio enthusiast (who knows nothing at all about home audio) and since I design the car systems I play with for audio quality I know that having a tight subwoofer can make all the difference in the world.

The HSU STF-2 definitely sounds large, but as you said, physics is physics. In talking about the layout of my room, I think I may have undersold the size. While the living room itself is 16x14, it open up to the kitchen which while not huge adds a bit of size. Do you think the STF-2 will produce enough sound to fill the room? If so, awesome! I just want to check.

You make a good point about sound dampening! I'm really glad you mentioned it. I hadn't considered it at all. The Auralex SubDude or GRAMMA sound like really good solutions. I definitely want to be able to turn the sub up without having to worry about the cops coming. :)

For the surrounds, I'm reconsidering the wireless thing. It would be far easier to go wireless with my room, but someone pointed me to some WireMate cordmold cover on Amazon (I can't link to it because I'm new) which also seems like a reasonable way to run the cable. By chance, have you ever played with that stuff? I'm hoping it would be an easy install, match the white molding on my floor and door frame, and allow me to run speaker wire.

If I can either use speaker wire or find another wireless solution, you think the SP-BS22-LR would be a good choice?

Thanks for the tip about banana plugs! I've never used those before and will try it! They look really convenient and clean.

Now...for some math:



Denon AVR-1912 $330
SP-FS52 $130 x 2 = 260
SP-C22 = $99
SP-BS22-LR $130
HSU STF-2 Sub = 349
Auralex GRAMMA $55
Incidentals (cable, plugs, etc) $20

Total: $1243 (let's just call it $1250).

Awesome! That's way under budget! So, here's the logical next question. I'm happy to be under budget. Perfectly happy. Do you think there there is anything that I should spend the remaining money on in terms of speakers, receiver, or sub? Or would I just be spending money and not able to tell a significant difference?

Thanks again for your help. If you are ever in Atlanta drinks are on me. :)
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The STF2 is a good sub for a small room but it does not have gobs of output, but there is a great sale right now on the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. Grab that for $500 shipped, is a big step up from the STF2. Also, there is disagreement on the usefulness of subwoofer isolation pads, and I definitely would not take out $50 for one in your budget. In my opinion, they are a scam for the most part and are not supported by any measurement. I would also mention that incidentals are going to be more than $20, depending on what you already have. Speaker cable, HDMI cable, wall jacks, speaker mounts, etc, all that can add up. For instance, if you need to mount some bookshelf speakers on your wall, basically the only decent affordable wall mounts are the AM40 pinpoint mounts, and they are $60 a pair. Also do not buy any cables at electronics stores, the markups are insane. Get your speaker cable from Home depot, get a roll of a bit more length than what you need, and get it in 14 AWG. If you want pretty looking speaker cable, get it from blue jeans cable, they have fancy looking cable and are not over-priced. For HMDI, get that from Monoprice.com or Blue Jeans.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Denon AVR-1912 $330
SP-FS52 $130 x 2 = 260
SP-C22 = $99
SP-BS22-LR $130
HSU STF-2 Sub = 349

Do you think there there is anything that I should spend the remaining money on in terms of speakers, receiver, or sub? Or would I just be spending money and not able to tell a significant difference?
While I consider the Pioneer speakers good performers, and better
than some more expensive brands out there. Some-how, they may
be a let down, compared to the Focal sound that you may have in
your car.

I would still think about 3.1 and starting with the Focal speakers at
AC4L, with a bigger sub.
Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
There is also this amazing sale on the EMP tek speakers, I would much rather have those E55Ti towers and E56Ci center over the Pioneers as well.
 
L

llamaattack

Audiophyte
Anyone else have thoughts on the EMP tek speakers (E55Ti) vs the Focal speakers (Focal Chorus 814V) vs the Pioneers vs the Polk TSi500s?
Also thoughts on the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus vs the STF2?

About the incidentals cost being low: I already have spare HDMI cables and I think fortunately I'll be able to use the top of some some short DVD cabinets for the rear speakers and not need to buy mounts. Anything wrong with that plan?

Thanks again for everyone's help!
 
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ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Agree

I favor the Outlaw, over the STF-2.
Likewise, or a pair of the EMP 1010i $600 delivered. Those Focals look nice too though, and they're new with five year warranty. Honestly I would go 3.2 to start with, all EMP, E55ti mains, E56i center and dual ES1010i subs. Total delivered $1317, thirty day in home trial and free return shipping, these are nice looking speakers, you really have nothing to lose with the EMP's. :) Sorry but I would not settle for the STF-2, that's just me, and who am I.......:D;)
Cheers Jeff
 
F

fishead

Enthusiast
Likewise, or a pair of the EMP 1010i $600 delivered. Those Focals look nice too though, and they're new with five year warranty. Honestly I would go 3.2 to start with, all EMP, E55ti mains, E56i center and dual ES1010i subs. Total delivered $1317, thirty day in home trial and free return shipping, these are nice looking speakers, you really have nothing to lose with the EMP's. :) Sorry but I would not settle for the STF-2, that's just me, and who am I.......:D;)
Cheers Jeff
Where are you finding a pair of 1010i's for this price?
I'm sold! Never mind, you have to follow a separate link to get the Monday price-I just added to my cart and it came out full price.
 
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