HSU VS JTR

[Verdinut]

1. Connect the subwoofer terminals as explained in my post # 228

2. Connect the XLS 1502 as per directions below:

Connect the speaker as shown. Read Page 7 of the Owner's Manual:

If using the Speakon output, connect the positive terminal
of the speaker to Speakon pin 1+ and the negative terminal of the
speaker to Speakon pin 2+, then plug the Speakon connector into
Channel 1 output of the amplifier.
Follow these quick steps to configure the amplifier for BRIDGE mode:
1.
Hold the MENU/SEL button for 1 second until the LCD screen displays the
MAIN MENU.
2.
Highlight AMP MODE and press the MENU/SEL button to enter the AMP
MODE menu.
3.
Press the NEXT button until BRIDGE is highlighted.
4.
Press the MENU/SEL button to select BRIDGE mode.
5.
Now the LCD screen displays the MAIN MENU. You may continue to the
CROSSOVER menu status screen which will now show that the amplifier is
in BRIDGE mode.

Note: Only Channel 1 output is used. Channel 2 Output of the amplifier is not used for the bridge mode.

 

[moves]

1. Connect the subwoofer terminals as explained in my post # 228

2. Connect the XLS 1502 as per directions below:

Connect the speaker as shown. Read Page 7 of the Owner's Manual:

If using the Speakon output, connect the positive terminal
of the speaker to Speakon pin 1+ and the negative terminal of the
speaker to Speakon pin 2+, then plug the Speakon connector into
Channel 1 output of the amplifier.
Follow these quick steps to configure the amplifier for BRIDGE mode:
1.
Hold the MENU/SEL button for 1 second until the LCD screen displays the
MAIN MENU.
2.
Highlight AMP MODE and press the MENU/SEL button to enter the AMP
MODE menu.
3.
Press the NEXT button until BRIDGE is highlighted.
4.
Press the MENU/SEL button to select BRIDGE mode.
5.
Now the LCD screen displays the MAIN MENU. You may continue to the
CROSSOVER menu status screen which will now show that the amplifier is
in BRIDGE mode.

Note: Only Channel 1 output is used. Channel 2 Output of the amplifier is not used for the bridge mode.

Thanks


Here are some pics of the first glue job:

 

[moves]

So I have a problem... I've switched the crown to Bridge mode correctly and I've wired the speakon to positive wire to +1 and negative wire to plus +2 and plugged that into the Crown. Went into the pioneer SC27 MCAAC room correction speaker setup and enabled the subwoofer and set the crossover to 80hz. The crossover on the Crown isn't activated. I've tried setting the high Pass on the crown but still no bass. I've tried some test tones with the Pioneer and there is a very small amount of thumping that isn't deep at all while the tweeter is making noise at the same time... Ugh I thought I had this. Any ideas?

I check the channel level of the sub on the pioneer and the sub sounds like deepish sound of running river water.

I plugged one amp into the Pio VIA RCA just to hear the woofer. I didn't finish the cabinets yet.

If the Dynaudio has two 2 ohm voice coils, they would have to be connected in series to obtain a 4 ohm impedance load for the XLS 1502. For this, you have to connect a red terminal of one voice coil to the black terminal of the other voice coil:


The speakon is connected positive to Pin +1 and Negative wire to +2 as per the instructions in the crown instruction book.



One DVC driver with Voice Coils in Series

 

[moves]

Here is the connection... the black wire on the subwoofer is connecting the positive of one coil to the negative of the other coil.

 

[moves]

So I've been strongly advised to connect 1 channel to each Voice Coil (VC). Apparently, it will be a safer load on the driver and is friendlier to the amplifier. I think I'll try that before I do the bridged mode and see what happens.

 

[moves]

Had an interesting discussion with TLSGuy and we thought we should share.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/conversations/help-please.50316/

 

[lovinthehd]

FWIW that comes up with a not found thingie.

 

[moves]

FWIW that comes up with a not found thingie.

Hm any idea how to share a private conversation?

 

[lovinthehd]

Personally I wouldn't want to, that's why it's private in the first place....but imagine if you manipulate the quote code you could do it (experiment with a regular post first). Then you could just copy/paste what you think is relevatory.

 

[moves]

Personally I wouldn't want to, that's why it's private in the first place....but imagine if you manipulate the quote code you could do it (experiment with a regular post first). Then you could just copy/paste what you think is relevatory.

We both agreed and it has some valuable information for others who will be going through the same thing I am.

 

[lovinthehd]

We both agreed and it has some valuable information for others who will be going through the same thing I am.

So try manipulating message and member number info within the quote structure....

 

[moves]

It's been suggested to me to connect each voice coil to a to separate channel of the 1502 XLS and run in stereo.
I want to run a miniDSP with this amp and the Dayton 18-22. This would be 775W per voice coil...

Is this the same as running the amp in Bridged mode with a 4 ohm load with the woofer connected in series but in safer way?

I was turned away from the bridging idea because it can be dangerous for the amplifier and the driver.... Just want to make sure there is enough juice for the miniDSP as well.

 

[TLS Guy]

It's been suggested to me to connect each voice coil to a to separate channel of the 1502 XLS and run in stereo.
I want to run a miniDSP with this amp and the Dayton 18-22. This would be 775W per voice coil...

Is this the same as running the amp in Bridged mode with a 4 ohm load with the woofer connected in series but in safer way?

I was turned away from the bridging idea because it can be dangerous for the amplifier and the driver.... Just want to make sure there is enough juice for the miniDSP as well.

I don't understand. Th mini DSP will not take any power. Just take the sub output to the miniDSP and connect the miniDSP to both inputs of the Crown. Simple.

 

[moves]

I don't understand. Th mini DSP will not take any power. Just take the sub output to the miniDSP and connect the miniDSP to both inputs of the Crown. Simple.

The only reason I am asking is because there are some members who mentioned that EQing with the mini DSP takes some extra power

 

[lovinthehd]

The only reason I am asking is because there are some members who mentioned that EQing with the mini DSP takes some extra power

I think those comments were about one of the dsp Behringer amps but it's been a while. Minidsp has it's own power supply in any case.

I am curious about running each VC with an amp channel....seems I read that can yield more issues than it's worth....

 

[moves]

I think those comments were about one of the dsp Behringer amps but it's been a while. Minidsp has it's own power supply in any case.

I am curious about running each VC with an amp channel....seems I read that can yield more issues than it's worth....

Running each VC with a separate channel can lead to issues? This is what TLSGuy and Crown was recommending.

 

[lovinthehd]

Running each VC with a separate channel can lead to issues? This is what TLSGuy and Crown was recommending.

Like I said, just something I read back when I was putting together my list of things to do for wiring my DVC drivers (of which I have several). Can you point me to the Crown recommendation? I can't read your convo with @TLS Guy but am curious what the reasoning is as to why it would be recommended over simply wiring in parallel or series. From what I remember the argument against went along the lines that if identical signal/power is fed to each voice coil, things are fine but variances between the signal/amp output can cause them to fight each other and not produce ideal results. Granted two channels of the same amp are probably quite close but not quite identical and since sub pre-out is a mono signal splitting the signal shouldn't be an issue (maybe the caution was from back when people more likely had a L/R input?). I also thought I read that you don't gain power from wiring each voice coil separately as you would with bridging....

 

[moves]

Like I said, just something I read back when I was putting together my list of things to do for wiring my DVC drivers (of which I have several). Can you point me to the Crown recommendation? I can't read your convo with @TLS Guy but am curious what the reasoning is as to why it would be recommended over simply wiring in parallel or series. From what I remember the argument against went along the lines that if identical signal/power is fed to each voice coil, things are fine but variances between the signal/amp output can cause them to fight each other and not produce ideal results. Granted two channels of the same amp are probably quite close but not quite identical and since sub pre-out is a mono signal splitting the signal shouldn't be an issue (maybe the caution was from back when people more likely had a L/R input?). I also thought I read that you don't gain power from wiring each voice coil separately as you would with bridging....

This is what Crown wrote. Their response was in red:

My initial idea to bridge was because I will be using a minidsp that also requires power to run. The driver has a 1000W tolerance so with the minidsp I thought the bridging would be ideal... do you still think that I should run each voice coil to a separate channel in this set up? I’m not familiar with a minidsp, what is that? Are you saying that this driver has 2- 4ohm voice coils or 2- 2 ohm coils? Yes, running one voice coil per channel is the safest solution as each coil will receive the same amount of power as it would have in bridge mode but the peak output voltages would be at a much safer level.

I thought I would also include this piece of convo with Crown. Their response is in red:

Also, just wondering why the negative binding post on channel 2 isn't used in bridge mode? The manual says to connect the negative speaker wire to +2 pin on speakon and the positive terminal on terminal 2 binding post of the amp.... Does it switch polarity when in bridged? The polarity is indeed inverted on channel 2, essentially when in bridge mode channel 1 is used for the positive portion of the waveform and channel 2 is used for the negative portion. Keep in mind that when you bridge an amplifier that as I mentioned previously the voltage output capability doubles. As an example…let’s say that in stereo mode the amplifier has the ability to put out a peak voltage of 130 volts per channel, when you put the amplifier in bridge mode you are able to achieve the peak output of each channel summed into one single output, so in this example you could see a peak output voltage of 260 volts. Most speaker components cannot handle these types of voltages, so a person needs to set up accurate limiter settings to avoid damaging the speaker components.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Dual VTF15h mk2s would certainly be enough for most people. If you wanted to equal two Captivator 1400s, just get four VTF15h mk2s. That will match the burst output of Captivators and majorly exceed them in continuous output. Furthermore, if the four subs are spaced apart, that will probably yield a flattish response naturally, even without any EQing, which gives them a qualitative edge. Captivator 2400s, on the other hand, would have a very real advantage in deep bass extension though, and would not get outpaced as much in continuous output vs multiple VTF15 mk2s.

Spreading them out doesn’t give the same increase in peak output. I still can’t imagine anyone being unhappy with 4 VTF15’s, but they shouldn’t expect it to equal the output of 2 captivators anymore either.

This is beyond the point of this discussion, but Ive seen a few different tests attempt to look at this and a whole lot of conjecture. My understanding is that you probably would see about a 3-4 dB gain in peak output on average above 50hz and below that point closer to 6dB. The exact point of this handover depends on the length of the room and placement of the subs (all four in corners tends to maximize this effect).

I think the sound will be the same in all these scenarios within their linear range. The obvious difference will be in peak scenarios. Headroom as some have said. The argument for larger subs like the JTR should be based on packaging needs. If you want that extra output and you don’t have room for 4 or the HSU’s, go with the Captivators. Otherwise, either can get you to the same results in the end.

You might also consider other reasons and decide if that is important for you. Jeff uses very high quality parts in his subs and his margins are tiny. Bad for business but good for consumers.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Like I said, just something I read back when I was putting together my list of things to do for wiring my DVC drivers (of which I have several). Can you point me to the Crown recommendation? I can't read your convo with @TLS Guy but am curious what the reasoning is as to why it would be recommended over simply wiring in parallel or series. From what I remember the argument against went along the lines that if identical signal/power is fed to each voice coil, things are fine but variances between the signal/amp output can cause them to fight each other and not produce ideal results. Granted two channels of the same amp are probably quite close but not quite identical and since sub pre-out is a mono signal splitting the signal shouldn't be an issue (maybe the caution was from back when people more likely had a L/R input?). I also thought I read that you don't gain power from wiring each voice coil separately as you would with bridging....

Think about this logically for a moment. Any difference in the signal that comes out is automatically distortion. Does it make any sense that such differences could or would exist.

If that was true then the use of bridged mode in amplifiers wouldn’t work and would likely lead to dramatic increases in distortion. The two halves of the amplifier (which operate in a kind of push pull scenario) would not be in sync. One would attempt to push while the other is still pulling. It doesn’t work that way.

In other words, what you read is incorrect and in fact doesn’t even make much sense. It sounds like it comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of how both speakers and amplifiers work. I don’t see a huge benefit to doing it, but I also see no detriment. The decision should instead be based on the approach that leads to the best load for the amplifier. If an amplifier puts the most power out at 4 ohms and your sub is a dual 4 ohm sub, then It makes more sense to power each coil with its own amp.

You can even feed different signals to each coil without introducing distortion. This is precisely how DVC subs drivers were used with passive crossovers for sub-sat systems. The only time this might create some cancelation is if each channel was the same amplitude information but different timing. However, this would cancel acoustically too. Amplifiers don’t add this kind of phase distortion unless you add.