How to increase bass clarity from center channel speaker?

[flycaster]

Yamaha RX-800 (Manual...http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/re/RX-V800kai.pdf). Speakers - All 10 year old Paradigms: SubW...PDR-10, CC...CC170, Mains...Monitor V3, Rears...Cinema V1.

Although I have the Avia I, I got lazy and calibrated the speakers just according to the Yammy test sound. Sound is pretty good, but I do have a slight hearing problem and made the center channel speakers just a little bit louder than the mains in an effort to hear speech better. However, I'm finding that when I turn up the overall volume to 75dB, bass sounds (especially when men are speaking) coming from the center channel seem to be too deep (and maybe a little muddy); turning down the volume a little bit does increase the clarity of speech (ie, reduces bass muddiness). I do believe, but not with a lot of certainty, that adjusting the Yammy Center GEQ-Center Graphic Equalizer (#5 on page 40) could make a difference in the CC's voice clarity by adjusting the bass frequencies, but I don't know how to go about it (and my sense of tonal differences is not the the greatest).

 

[twoeyedbob]

Make sure the sub isnt causing any colouration...
I had one for a few years
And unless everything on it was turned down really low
It made some really nasty noises....not a good example of a sub....
You'd notice a huge difference if you got something else
...sorry

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[flycaster]

I don't think it is the subW, itself. As a test, perhaps I should reset my speakers to Large and not have the subW on, then listen to see if there is a problem with bass vocal clarity???

 

[Grador]

I don't think it is the subW, itself. As a test, perhaps I should reset my speakers to Large and not have the subW on, then listen to see if there is a problem with bass vocal clarity???

That adds another variable to the equation. Try just unplugging the subwoofer and leaving the speakers crossed over.

 

[twoeyedbob]

Try disconnecting the sub first...have a listen...if the issue continues...
You could raise the crossover point (keep the sub off)...so the centre has less bass to deal with
Process of ellimination

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[theJman]

What do you have the crossover set for?

 

[flycaster]

My main speakers shut off at 88Hz and the subW is set to max frequency (140Hz), level set 75dB.

 

[theJman]

My main speakers shut off at 88Hz and the subW is set to max frequency (140Hz), level set 75dB.

The LPF is set at 88Hz? I've never seen it be anything other then divisible by 10.

 

[flycaster]

How about 90Hz.

 

[theJman]

How about 90Hz.

If you're merely guessing now I'm afraid that won't really help. If you ever find out for sure... what I was driving at is if the crossover is set high you can get a "chesty" sound to vocals, especially male voices. That has a tendency to make them come across as thick and heavy, removing a great deal of clarity in the process.

 

[flycaster]

On my Yamaha RX-V800 (See page 38 from the manual url above) I have selected all speakers to be Small and LFE Out (frequencies below 90Hz) to be through the subW (only). The subW's levels were calibrated to match the main speakers at 75dB, and its crossover is set to its max-140Hz.

 

[j_garcia]

On my Yamaha RX-V800 (See page 38 from the manual url above) I have selected all speakers to be Small and LFE Out (frequencies below 90Hz) to be through the subW (only). The subW's levels were calibrated to match the main speakers at 75dB, and its crossover is set to its max-140Hz.

Crossovers don't exactly work like that - frequencies below the x-over for the mains and somewhat above for the sub will still be played by those speakers, just at reduced levels. The sub is usually rolled off more steeply than the rest of the speakers because it is not intended to be audible too high up. It sounds like you have things set correctly.

The FIRST thing I would do is set the center to large and see how it does - if it is fine on its own, then we'll need to dig further. If the problem exists with that speaker by itself, then there's a good chance the speaker is the problem.

 

[twoeyedbob]

Why dont you run the auto eq setup first before going any further....i'm presuming your receiver has one...
Would be silly not to..

I had an eltax centre spkr with similar issues..(not enough bass or treble)...never really got it sounding spot on...also complicated by the pdr 10
Doing it's own thing in the corner

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[j_garcia]

Why dont you run the auto eq setup first before going any further....i'm presuming your receiver has one...
Would be silly not to..

I had an eltax centre spkr with similar issues..(not enough bass or treble)...never really got it sounding spot on...also complicated by the pdr 10
Doing it's own thing in the corner

He posted the manual for his receiver already.... It is a little older and does not have YPAO.

 

[twoeyedbob]

He posted the manual for his receiver already.... It is a little older and does not have YPAO.

A.i've no intention of reading someone else's manual on a smartphone ...cant even bring myself to read all of mine.
B.he said he'd been lazy and then mentioned 'avia' which i presumed was some sort of setup system.

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[j_garcia]

Didn't expect you to read it, but it is there and so is the model number. That would be a downside of phone posting. I didn't read it either, I looked up the model and saw that it has no YPAO.

Avia is a calibration disc.

 

[theJman]

On my Yamaha RX-V800 (See page 38 from the manual url above) I have selected all speakers to be Small and LFE Out (frequencies below 90Hz) to be through the subW (only). The subW's levels were calibrated to match the main speakers at 75dB, and its crossover is set to its max-140Hz.

The LFE and the bass are two different things, but for the sake of argument I'll assume you're using them interchangeably.

90Hz is on the high side, so you might want to try dropping that to 80Hz instead. If your speakers are strong below 80 you could even set it lower, but that will at least take some of the male voice range away from the sub. Adding 1dB to the centers output too might help even more.

 

[TLS Guy]

The LFE and the bass are two different things, but for the sake of argument I'll assume you're using them interchangeably.

90Hz is on the high side, so you might want to try dropping that to 80Hz instead. If your speakers are strong below 80 you could even set it lower, but that will at least take some of the male voice range away from the sub. Adding 1dB to the centers output too might help even more.

The F3 of his center is 70 Hz, so a 80 to 90 Hz crossover is appropriate.

However the area of concern for his problem is the 80 to 250 Hz range.

I suspect his speakers do sound chesty. I have never heard a paradigm speaker I like. They are all bloated in the bottom end and fizz at you besides..

Designing a good center is a huge hurdle and from what I hear there are very few good commercial examples.

A lot of members here confess to having to run their centers "hot" which is a huge red flag.

In the OPs case increasing the center volume makes the bass bloat worse.

My best suggestion is that he pulls that speaker as far away from the wall and boundaries as possible.

 

[flycaster]

Why dont you run the auto eq setup first before going any further....i'm presuming your receiver has one...

On page 40 of the manual, section 5, there are instructions on how to manipulate the Center Graphic Equalizer. I was thinking this migh help

 

[Grador]

On page 40 of the manual, section 5, there are instructions on how to manipulate the Center Graphic Equalizer. I was thinking this migh help

It might, but you've never responded back to any of our suggestions as we try and figure out where the problem lies, so it's really impossible to help.