How many of you use DSP modes of your AVR?

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I play a source in its intended 2 or 5.1/7.1 CH mode. Only play 7 CH stereo DSP for mood music like at a Christmas party...etc.
There you go. Another 7Ch Stereo mode occasional user. Stay away from Yamaha. ;) :D
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Good luck getting info that the soundtrack is encoded with DPL out of netflix or snagtv. I haven't seen that to date. I would like to so that I could use DPL.
With movies generally, using DPL is probably a good default choice. This is because it will render a mono movie as mono (center channel only), and very few (if any) movies were made to be 2 channel only; most of them will be DPL encoded if put on a 2 channel audio format thing (e.g., like the Hi-Fi tracks of VHS and Beta tapes). The vast majority of films are either mono or multichannel. Multichannel sound was promoted in the 1950's with some of the widescreen films (e.g., CinemaScope, etc.), as a way to entice people to theaters and not to settle for TVs at home, that had mono sound and a 4:3 aspect ratio picture. So when in doubt, try DPL with a movie if the signal is 2 channels. I have never had a movie sound strange or odd using it.

Here is an interesting quote for you:

The first commercially successful
multichannel sound formats were
developed in the early 1950s for the
cinema. At the time, stereophonic
sound, a concept new to the public,
was heavily promoted along with new
wide-screen formats by a film industry
feeling threatened by the rapid
growth of television. Unlike the two-
channel format later adopted for
home stereo, film stereo sound started
out with, and continues to use, a
minimum of four channels.​

http://pacificav.com/library/Dolby Surround History.pdf

Dolby later on developed a system of putting those 4 channels onto a 2 channel format, and we know that today as Dolby Pro Logic (in home theater terminology). The reason was due to the cost of the multichannel sound (which you can read the full article for a more complete story on this), and also it enables people to have a 2 channel source that can still give them the 4 channel theater sound (e.g., VHS, Beta, whatever). DPL gives one a 4 channel output from a discrete 2 channels, and has been the standard for such sources for many years.
 
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M

metalmancpa

Audioholic Intern
There you go. Another 7Ch Stereo mode occasional user. Stay away from Yamaha. ;) :D
Why such Yamaha angst? I guess in the end I'm a Yamaha guy. I had a chance to try another brand. I was looking into NAD, Denon, Yamaha, amongst others. After listening to a few (knowing that testing is irrelevant if it's not in your listening room), and capped with a $1,500 budget, the Yamaha RX-A3020 won.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
With movies generally, using DPL is probably a good default choice. This is because it will render a mono movie as mono (center channel only), and very few (if any) movies were made to be 2 channel only; most of them will be DPL encoded if put on a 2 channel audio format thing (e.g., like the Hi-Fi tracks of VHS and Beta tapes). The vast majority of films are either mono or multichannel. Multichannel sound was promoted in the 1950's with some of the widescreen films (e.g., CinemaScope, etc.), as a way to entice people to theaters and not to settle for TVs at home, that had mono sound and a 4:3 aspect ratio picture. So when in doubt, try DPL with a movie if the signal is 2 channels. I have never had a movie sound strange or odd using it.

Here is an interesting quote for you:
The first commercially successful
multichannel sound formats were
developed in the early 1950s for the
cinema. At the time, stereophonic
sound, a concept new to the public,
was heavily promoted along with new
wide-screen formats by a film industry
feeling threatened by the rapid
growth of television. Unlike the two-
channel format later adopted for
home stereo, film stereo sound started
out with, and continues to use, a
minimum of four channels.​

http://pacificav.com/library/Dolby Surround History.pdf

Dolby later on developed a system of putting those 4 channels onto a 2 channel format, and we know that today as Dolby Pro Logic (in home theater terminology). The reason was due to the cost of the multichannel sound (which you can read the full article for a more complete story on this), and also it enables people to have a 2 channel source that can still give them the 4 channel theater sound (e.g., VHS, Beta, whatever). DPL gives one a 4 channel output from a discrete 2 channels, and has been the standard for such sources for many years.
I'm going to try DPL out tonight on another obscure B-rated film and see how it sounds.
 
J

JMJVK

Audioholic
I sometimes used "DTS Neo 6 music" when playing music, prior to having a 4 speaker Stereo (A+B) setup in the living room. It helped to fill the room at low volumes, but never really liked it as much as a dual pair stereo.

I still use "DTS Neo 6 movies" when playing poorly encoded stuff from Youtube, (mostly old WWII documentaries and news). I've found it makes voices "sharper" and easier to understand. Otherwise, I pretty much stick to the original format. On certain materials, like Dave Brubeck's "Take five in a quartet" DVD, I favor the lossless 2 channel PCM over the lossy 5.1 AC3 track, and play it using my Stereo receiver instead of the AVR.

I've been using stereo receivers with 2 pairs of speakers, in a channel A+B configuration since I was a teen, and to this day, I don't think there's anything quite like it. It's like being immersed in sound, in the midst of the band. A few recordings I own are in lossless multi-channel format and will trump the twin stereo thing, but they are few in numbers.

I went AVR only for about 4 years, and had to go back to stereo. Don't think I'll ever abandon it ever again.
 
Lulimet

Lulimet

Full Audioholic
I use DPLII on movies that are 2.0 and sometimes I use 5 channel stereo or DPLII Music for music, but otherwise I don't lay any processing over the multi-channel receorded stuff. I do use Audyssey for movies and concert dvd/blurays but I never use it for music.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Just to be clear, I don't use any DSP over the multichannel stuff either. However, since the advent of HT, I've become spoiled in that I cannot tolerate a 2 channel movie soundtrack any more.

Pyrrrho, I never had the chance last night to experiement with DPL and DPLII . I'm buying the 2nd Hunger Games and watching that tonight. However, I will experiment with the DPLII hppefully this weekend.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Just to be clear, I don't use any DSP over the multichannel stuff either. However, since the advent of HT, I've become spoiled in that I cannot tolerate a 2 channel movie soundtrack any more.

Pyrrrho, I never had the chance last night to experiement with DPL and DPLII . I'm buying the 2nd Hunger Games and watching that tonight. However, I will experiment with the DPLII hppefully this weekend.
I've experimented a lot with DPLII, DTS NeoX, and a little with Audyssey DSX. Personally, in my room, I think they do a good job of adding meaningful sound to my height and occasionally rear channels when I'm watching TV or streaming from Roku. I came to that conclusion about the heights because I couldn't tell whether or not they were even on, until they were off. Same thing with the rear channels, on 5.1 DD content. For the most part, they blend into whatever I'm watching well and I only ever notice them when something sweeps around from the side, or if something is going on behind me.

Most BD's I watch direct, but occasionally I'll leave NeoX on and I can't say it detracts from the audio at all, even if it doesn't add anything.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
I've experimented a lot...
This one time, at band camp... :D


Okay, so as not to just derail with random innuendo - I use the DSP modes on mine, but only a small number of them. Prior to going to a 7.1 system, I tended to always listen in direct mode (so, whatever the original source was) for multichannel audio, and I would occasionally run DPLIIx for stereo sources. With 7.1, and with how my speakers are placed, I prefer running the THX mode on my receiver that converts 5.1 to 7.1 so that all four of my rear speakers are used. For two-channel, I still sometimes use DPLIIx and sometimes don't.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
This one time, at band camp... :D


Okay, so as not to just derail with random innuendo - I use the DSP modes on mine, but only a small number of them. Prior to going to a 7.1 system, I tended to always listen in direct mode (so, whatever the original source was) for multichannel audio, and I would occasionally run DPLIIx for stereo sources. With 7.1, and with how my speakers are placed, I prefer running the THX mode on my receiver that converts 5.1 to 7.1 so that all four of my rear speakers are used. For two-channel, I still sometimes use DPLIIx and sometimes don't.
Innuendo aside :)mad:), I kind of liked the THX modes I had in the Onkyo, but since NeoX and DPLIIX do similar stuff, I guess it isn't essential.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Just to be clear, I don't use any DSP over the multichannel stuff either. However, since the advent of HT, I've become spoiled in that I cannot tolerate a 2 channel movie soundtrack any more.

Pyrrrho, I never had the chance last night to experiement with DPL and DPLII . I'm buying the 2nd Hunger Games and watching that tonight. However, I will experiment with the DPLII hppefully this weekend.
The vast majority of the old stuff will be DPL encoded, not DPL II encoded. DPL II, when applied to those old things that are DPL encoded, will be sort of a combination of decoding and extra processing.

Here you can read about DPL and how it works:

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/208_Dolby_Surround_Pro_Logic_Decoder.pdf

Here is a relevant quote on the encoding of DPL:


Before we discuss decoders, however, it is necessary to see how the MP Matrix encoder works. Referring to the conceptual diagram in Fig. 1 (below) the encoder accepts four separate input signals, left, center, right, and surround (L, C, R, S), and creates two final outputs, left-total and right-total (Lt and Rt).

The L and R inputs go straight to the Lt and Rt outputs without modification. The C input is divided equally to Lt and Rt with a 3 dB level reduction (to maintain constant acoustic power in the mix). The S input is also divided equally between Lt and Rt, but it first undergoes three additional processing steps:


• Frequency bandlimiting from 100 Hz to 7 kHz.
• Encoding with a modified form of Dolby B-type noise reduction.
• Plus and minus 90-degree phase shifts are applied to create a 180 degree phase differential between the signal components feeding Lt and Rt.​

It is clear that there is no loss of separation between the left and right signals; they remain completely independent. Not so obvious is that there is also no theoretical loss of separation between the center and surround signals. Since the surround signal is recovered by taking the difference between Lt and Rt, the identical center channel components in Lt and Rt will exactly cancel each other in the surround output. Likewise, since the center channel is derived from the sum of Lt and Rt, the equal and opposite surround channel components will cancel each other in the center output.

The ability for this cancellation technique to maintain high separation between center and surround signals requires that the amplitude and phase characteristics of the two transmission channels be as close as possible. For instance, if the center channel components in Lt are not identical to the ones in Rt as a result of a mismatch in channel balance, center information will come out of the surround channel in the form of unwanted crosstalk.​


For what DPL II does, you can read this:

http://www.pacificav.com/library/Dolby Surround Pro Logic Operation.pdf

Although Dolby says it is fine to "decode" DPL encoded material with DPL II, properly speaking, it is not simply decoding; it is applying DSP processing to the signal as well. As you can see from the information regarding the encoding of DPL, the surround is mono, and there is no encoding of different information for the right and left rear channels. Yet DPL II will give you different sound from the right and left surround, which means it is not simply decoding the signal, but is applying extra DSP to the process. If you want it decoded and nothing else, you must use DPL, not DPL II. However, many people like the effect of DPL II on DPL encoded material (just like many people like other DSP effects), so you should use whatever you like.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Why such Yamaha angst? I guess in the end I'm a Yamaha guy. I had a chance to try another brand. I was looking into NAD, Denon, Yamaha, amongst others. After listening to a few (knowing that testing is irrelevant if it's not in your listening room), and capped with a $1,500 budget, the Yamaha RX-A3020 won.
No angst with Yamaha. We're just having fun. :D

For guys like PENG and me who love to use Audyssey Dynamic EQ everyday, we would never buy a Yamaha processor (or any other processor that lacks Audyssey) unless Yamaha buys into Audyssey one day.

Other than that I am sure Yamaha sounds just as great as any in Direct/ Pure Direct mode.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
How can you be so sure??:eek: :D
Okay, fine, I am NOT sure if Yamaha sounds as good as other AVR. :D

I am sure Yamaha does NOT have Audyssey XT32, dual sub EQ, and Dynamic EQ. :D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Okay, fine, I am NOT sure if Yamaha sounds as good as other AVR. :D

I am sure Yamaha does NOT have Audyssey XT32, dual sub EQ, and Dynamic EQ. :D
Thats Ok because I've been extremely happy with the results of my Yammy and I don't need those features in my environment.
 
DannyA

DannyA

Audioholic
I changed my surrounds to presence and moved them up by my mains so I no longer use surround. I mainly use 7ch stereo for music and 7ch Enhanced for movies. I have tried Pure Direct and 2ch stereo and they both sound good but I always seem to find myself liking the 7ch stereo.

Regarding 7ch stereo, I assume the L/R channel signals are simply sent to the additional speakers but what about the center? Logic tells me that both the L/R signals are sent to the center as well. Other than not being able to differentiate L form R on the center speaker, all other sound properties for the system as a whole, should be the same as 2ch stereo BUT with more sound produced due to the additional speakers. Am I correct or are there other things going on as well? How much of this depends on it being recorded 2ch stereo? In 7ch stereo mode, what happens to the signal when I play something not recorded in 2ch stereo?
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
Zero. :)

Every time I engage them I notice a change in imaging.
I know these DSP's measure well, I wonder if alterations that are not typically measured, such as phase, can account for this.

I used to use PLII but pretty much everything is multi-channel these days, and I it seems to lose the bass.

- Rich
 
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