HK AVR335 with 4 or 6 ohm speakers??

[niraj36]

I have a lower end Harman Kardon AVR receiver (model AVR 335) which is rated at 55 watts/ch into 8 ohms all 7 channels driven (I only use 5 channles). I would like to upgrade my speakers an am looking at the Monitor Audio Silver RS line which are 6ohm nominal. Would my HK AVR335 have any issues driving these speakers? A couple reviews I have read on the Monitor Silver RS state they can reach a impedence as low as 4 ohms. Thanks for your advice.

 

[tomd51]

The 335 is a nice receiver with a good feature set for the money as well as decent power for a small to mid-sized listening area. You'll likely be able to run these using the 335 at low to moderate listening levels for extended periods. However, if you plan to run close to reference for any decent length of time (which isn't necessary recommended for your hearing in general), the HK likely will be a bit underpowered for this.

One option to consider is running a separate 2 channel amp for the mains and run the rest of your setup off the amps of the HK. Removing the load of the mains (which will make up about 40-60% of your listening material) from the HK and dedicating it to an external amp will noticably improve the signal at moderate to high volume listening levels as well as extend the life of the receiver.

A solidv 100 watt, 2 channel amp will run you anywhere $150-$300. Probably a bit more than you wanted to spend, but for a relatively small amount of money, this would provide a substantial improvement in both sound quality and headroom (e.g., less audible distortion at higher levels)... -TD

 

[niraj36]

Tom,
Thanks for your advice. My listening room is small (11 x 19) 7 foot ceilings. I usually keep the volume level at low to moderate levels for every day listening but do like to turn it up a bit for watching movies (volume setting of -15 to -10 with my current small speakers). I would like to avoid buying an amp but would like to make sure that my HK AVR335 will be able to drive the Monitor Audio Silver RS speakers at moderate levels with enough power left over for the dynamic peaks that occur during a movie. I plan to use a powered subwoofer.

What are your thoughts on this setup? Should I look at speakers rated at 8ohms nominal?

Thanks, Niraj

 

[tomd51]

You're welcome. That is a relatively small listening room, so you likely wouldn't need much more power than the 335 or a comparable AV receiver unless you plan on running at close to reference level (-20 and lower) for extended periods.

Though many 8 ohm nominal speakers can dip down to 4 ohm for short periods, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a chance on running the Monitor Audios on solely the HK. These speakers are well reviewed and seem to be a pretty nice option, but unless you had a stronger AV (HK 635, 7300, Denon 3805, Yamaha 2500, Onkyo 703, etc.), you'd likely be stressing your 335 w/the MAs at higher levels.

Have you listened to these speakers yet? The reason I ask is that speaker choice is very subjective and if you have the opportunity to listen to these as well as others in their price range, you'll be able to determine the best fit for your system and budget. If you found some similar options that were a bit more sensitive, I would opt with an 8 ohm, higher sensitivity speaker, possibly something else from MA may suffice. If you find these are exactly what you want, you may want to consider a receiver upgrade or as I mentioned and external amp.

If you have the space, the amp is most definitely the best way to go. If not or you'd like to keep everything all under one umbrella (e.g. AV receiver), I would condsider one a bit more robust in the amp section. The HK may work just fine for your scenario with the MAs, but I wouldn't feel comfortable running them w/the 335s close to reference level, plus I think you'd likely be impacting the performance of the MAs doing so, thereby missing out on their true potential... -TD

 

[niraj36]

I have listened to the MA's. In addition, I am looking at the following lines
Warfedale Pacific Evolution
Warfedale Diamond 9
Energy Reference Connoisseur
KEF iQ Series

I have yet to listen to the KEF iQ's but I have listened to the others and the MA Silver's have left an impression.

Looking at the specs the MA Silvers have the highest sensitivity (listed at 91db) while the Warfedale's are around 88. Both these lines are 6 ohm nominal.

The Energy are 8ohm (4min) with 89db sensitivity and the KEF's are 88 (8ohm nominal 3.2 min).

I was searching the web for reviews and came across this one at Stereophile which have some actual impedence measurements for the MA Silver RS6's

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/index3.html

What are your thoughs on their comments?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[j_garcia]

At a recent listening session, we tried my 4 Ohm speakers with a 330 and it worked surprisingly well. 91.5dB sensitivity though, and in stereo only. I probably wouldn't want to listen to them for extended periods as the receiver did get relatively warm.

6 Ohm should not be an issue.

 

[tomd51]

I hadn't seen the review from Stereophile, I did, however look at the one here from Home Theater Mag stating their sensitivity to be a bit lower between 500Hz-2kHz than the 91dB rating from MA's website. Nevertheless, these aren't inefficient speakers by any means, so a decent AV receiver should be able to power them fairly well.

As you have listened to these and do prefer them, I would go for it. As I mentioned earlier, if you feel the HK is straining a bit during moderate to higher listening levels, you can always look at a receiver upgrade or adding an amp to the mix.

Your speakers, particularly the L/Rs, are going to be the biggest determining factor on how your system sounds. I would put more emphasis on building around these than I would working around the limitations (if there are any) of your current receiver.

If you do decide to go w/them, let us know after you've calibrated and given them some good listening tests in your setup what you think of them... - TD

 

[niraj36]

tomd51... what volume setting would you consider moderate to high?

j_garcia... what volume level were you running your 4ohm speakers at?


I am trying to get a idea of how far I can safely turn up the volume with the AVR335 and 6ohm speakers

Thanks all for your replies

 

[j_garcia]

I can't tell you what level the receiver was at exactly, but it wouldn't correlate to a different room anyway. Average listening level in a room that is just a bit larger than yours with an 80Hz x-over.

 

[tomd51]

tomd51... what volume setting would you consider moderate to high?

Moderate to high listening levels usually will correlate to about 70-90dB in-room, though one's hearing sensitivity may raise or lower this value. You can determine this with an SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meter and either the test tones from the receiver or a calibration CD/DVD.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what the corresponding volume level number is because this value is different for each receiver manufacturer and the SPL is affected by the size of the room and sensitivity of the speakers, you you'd have to determine this yourself w/an SPL meter in your own listening environment. If you'd like some information on that, let me know as I just sent someone else a link regarding this a few days ago.

As far as safely running the 335 w/the Monitor Audios, I'd roughly guess that any louder than 85dB for a long period may be stressing it to its limitations. For a more powerful receiver or if you were able to off load the mains or L/C/R load to another amp, you be able to run close to reference level for lengthy durations w/out activating any automatic power-off protection circuits. -TD

 

[PENG]

I have a lower end Harman Kardon AVR receiver (model AVR 335) which is rated at 55 watts/ch into 8 ohms all 7 channels driven (I only use 5 channles). I would like to upgrade my speakers an am looking at the Monitor Audio Silver RS line which are 6ohm nominal. Would my HK AVR335 have any issues driving these speakers? A couple reviews I have read on the Monitor Silver RS state they can reach a impedence as low as 4 ohms. Thanks for your advice.

According to the S&V (Mar 2004) lab measurements, the AVR330 did 5X66W at clipping and at 1 kHz into 8 ohms but it's PCM Stereo performance was not so good, putting out 85W into 8 ohms and 25W into 4 ohms at clipping and at 1 kHz. It also activated its protection mode when driving multichannel 4-ohm loads with steady state test signals after about half a second.

The 335 is a newer model but in terms of power output it is basically the same as the 330 so I don't think it is truly 4 ohm capable. Although your speaker can reach an impedance as low as 4 ohm, they are 6 ohm nominal with a decent 90 dB sensitivity. The 335 should be able to drive them reasonably well. As Tom said, you can add an external amplifier if you need more power.

 

[niraj36]

Thanks to all for your replies. You advide has been truly helpful. FYI I asked the same question to HK's online tech support desk and here is their response:

"Although our AVR receivers are UL rated for 8 ohms only, they can handle
lower impedances. You should not have a problem using most 4 ohm
Nominal Impedance speakers provided that you have PLENTY of cooling and
space for the receiver. Do not place anything on top of the unit, have
plenty of room on top and have at least one open side to an
entertainment center when the unit is in use. Lower impedances mean
higher generated heat that must dissipate. Since the receiver is UL
rated for 8 ohms only, power specifications for lower impedances are not
published."

I think i feel more comfortable that my AVR335 can run larger speakers at decent levels without any issues.

 

[tomd51]

Glad we could help, niraj.

I'm sure the 335 will be fine unless you drive it pretty hard for pretty extended periods. But once you've set things up and given a good listen to some movies and music that you typically listen to, you'll likely be able to notice if your receiver is straining. If that's the case, you can always jump to a model w/some bigger amplification or add an external amp, the 335 would get you a pretty decent return on resale.

Enjoy and let us know what you think of the MAs once you've got them all set up... -TD

 

[niraj36]

Is there any risks to damaging the speakers if the receiver is straining to drive them?

 

[tomd51]

Yes, there can be. The more a receiver strains to reproduce the signal, the more likely the signal will contain distortion, which in turn can negatively impact your speakers. Speakers are typically "blown" not from playing them too loud, but from playing them at a high level without sufficient amplification. A good rule of thumb is you can never have too much power for your speakers, at least for most speakers (not including sat cubes, computer speakers, etc.).

For example, if a reputable speaker manufacturer has a recommended max power handling of 150 watts for a given speaker, you could use an amplifier rated up to 200w/channel as the additional headroom may not necessarily be used, but you would also not be straining the amplifier and more often than not, you'll get less distortion staying within the boundaries of the amplifiers rating.

So while some folks concern themselves with getting an amplifier or speakers that match each other power-wise, you're always better off having more amplification than not enough... -TD

 

[j_garcia]

It will also depend on the specific speakers and your listening levels, room size, etc... If you only run 2 4 Ohm speakers with a higher sensitivity and the rest 8, I think it would handle it; but a full compliment of 4 Ohm speakers I would not try. All 6 Ohm might not be good either, but a mix of 6 and 8 should be fine.

 

[tdamocles]

You can try here to get some sort of comparisons also.

 

[klsoundtech]

what is the proper way to connect external amp to an hk avr 335 pre-out?thanks for the input

 

[j_garcia]

what is the proper way to connect external amp to an hk avr 335 pre-out?thanks for the input

Just connect RCA cables from the preouts to the amp's inputs.

 

[klsoundtech]

thought it was easy as that,info much appreciated