Hijack posts from Hsu/SVS thread...

J

jakeman

Junior Audioholic
Sheep said:
Wow, this is a whole new standard of hate.

We would have never gotten away with this before, maybe the mods want us to blow off steam and get it all out.

SheepStar
Distaste yes, hate no. :)
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
jakeman said:
Distaste yes, hate no. :)
Well stated, jakeman. And yes, the anger is understandable. But to whom is it not evident who the instigator and uncivil one is (ones are?)? Just take a step back, read the thread, and it's easy to see where it headed south. I take the good and helpful stuff, and you know what with the rest.
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
For the record, I never called CraigSub a liar. I did accuse him of babyish behavior (referring to his reaction to Ilkka's presence). I did question his graphs. My post was definitely inflamatory and rude, but I was irked by the way Craig was seemingly unable to take criticism. What I had failed to take into account was the history between him and Ilkka that dictated his actions.

My points were as follows:

1. Craig should be more immune to criticism, espeically if it's from someone that has bothered him in the past.
2. The measurements of the Hsu products didn't fit the paradigm of normal Hsu performance. I would like to know why.
3. The graphs were indeed showing a low resolution and I thought that it would be good to get higher resolution ones.

I feel that these are all reasonable requests. Also, as I have pointed out in a PM to another user here that accused me of having some agenda, I must stress that I have no such agenda. I cannot speak for Ilkka or Maniac Miner. I do personally own a Hsu product (STF-1). The reason I questioned the measurements is that the Hsu graph seems to have some pretty big nonlinearities. Hsu subs are known for their flat and accurate response. Just as if one would question a frequency response graph from a B&W Nautilus with big humps, I questioned the Hsu graph.

Ilkka, I supported your choice to question Craig's measurements because I too felt there was something "off" and that some explanation about techniques was warranted. However, if you are going to be a post-whore and seemingly post inflamatory things for the hell of it, I'd rather you not post. Igniting a flame war is NOT productive.
 
JeffD2.

JeffD2.

Audioholic
Agreed John. Hate takes soooo much energy. Just not worth it in the grand scheme of life. :rolleyes:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
JeffD2. said:
Agreed John. Hate takes soooo much energy. Just not worth it in the grand scheme of life. :rolleyes:
Besides that ... there is a cocktail with my name on it ...
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
jaxvon said:
For the record, I never called CraigSub a liar. I did accuse him of babyish behavior (referring to his reaction to Ilkka's presence). I did question his graphs. My post was definitely inflamatory and rude, but I was irked by the way Craig was seemingly unable to take criticism. What I had failed to take into account was the history between him and Ilkka that dictated his actions.

My points were as follows:

1. Craig should be more immune to criticism, espeically if it's from someone that has bothered him in the past.
2. The measurements of the Hsu products didn't fit the paradigm of normal Hsu performance. I would like to know why.
3. The graphs were indeed showing a low resolution and I thought that it would be good to get higher resolution ones.

I feel that these are all reasonable requests. Also, as I have pointed out in a PM to another user here that accused me of having some agenda, I must stress that I have no such agenda. I cannot speak for Ilkka or Maniac Miner. I do personally own a Hsu product (STF-1). The reason I questioned the measurements is that the Hsu graph seems to have some pretty big nonlinearities. Hsu subs are known for their flat and accurate response. Just as if one would question a frequency response graph from a B&W Nautilus with big humps, I questioned the Hsu graph.

Ilkka, I supported your choice to question Craig's measurements because I too felt there was something "off" and that some explanation about techniques was warranted. However, if you are going to be a post-whore and seemingly post inflamatory things for the hell of it, I'd rather you not post. Igniting a flame war is NOT productive.
Here here! I'll drink to that! :)

Posto Numero 3 thousand, 0.

SheepStar
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
jaxvon said:
For the record, I never called CraigSub a liar. I did accuse him of babyish behavior (referring to his reaction to Ilkka's presence). I did question his graphs. My post was definitely inflamatory and rude, but I was irked by the way Craig was seemingly unable to take criticism. What I had failed to take into account was the history between him and Ilkka that dictated his actions.

My points were as follows:

1. Craig should be more immune to criticism, espeically if it's from someone that has bothered him in the past.
2. The measurements of the Hsu products didn't fit the paradigm of normal Hsu performance. I would like to know why.
3. The graphs were indeed showing a low resolution and I thought that it would be good to get higher resolution ones.

I feel that these are all reasonable requests. Also, as I have pointed out in a PM to another user here that accused me of having some agenda, I must stress that I have no such agenda. I cannot speak for Ilkka or Maniac Miner. I do personally own a Hsu product (STF-1). The reason I questioned the measurements is that the Hsu graph seems to have some pretty big nonlinearities. Hsu subs are known for their flat and accurate response. Just as if one would question a frequency response graph from a B&W Nautilus with big humps, I questioned the Hsu graph.

Ilkka, I supported your choice to question Craig's measurements because I too felt there was something "off" and that some explanation about techniques was warranted. However, if you are going to be a post-whore and seemingly post inflamatory things for the hell of it, I'd rather you not post. Igniting a flame war is NOT productive.
I was actually hoping someone would ASK about the three graphs .. perhaps something like "Where were those graphs taken?" ... but that never happened.

I GP'ed an STF-1 2 years ago .. it is flat to about 28 Hz ... GREAT little sub.

Anyway, those graphs are impossible to glean any useful info from. They were not intended to be useful. They were posted for fun.

I gotta say this .. we had one heckuva thread for a week.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
I gotta say this .. we had one heckuva thread for a week.
And many more. Don't let this burst your bubble. Your doing a fine job, better then I thats for sure. :)

SheepStar
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
jaxvon said:
For the record, I never called CraigSub a liar. I did accuse him of babyish behavior (referring to his reaction to Ilkka's presence). I did question his graphs. My post was definitely inflamatory and rude, but I was irked by the way Craig was seemingly unable to take criticism. What I had failed to take into account was the history between him and Ilkka that dictated his actions.

The record stands corrected. No direct accusation was made by you. Inflamatory, rude, and irked commentary could be upgraded to 'inquiry' as an option, you know. ;)
 
R

Ron Temple

Senior Audioholic
Glad all you guys are kissing a making up...what a sidetrack...let's go to the Steam Vent and duke it out. Everyone's a big enough guy to defend themselves, what's ridiculous is all the anal and I mean prostate stimulating crap that get's passed between people who like subwoofers.

It's hilarious:D

Insults, agendas, sh*t flying from all directions. I'm so glad I jumped on board this hobby. It's sooo important.:p
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
craigsub said:
Besides that ... there is a cocktail with my name on it ...
Craig: Nice work on the blind test. I'm enjoying a greater Manhattan right now with a Rocky Patel...pure decadence. Cheers.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Sheep said:
Here here! I'll drink to that! :)

Posto Numero 3 thousand, 0.

SheepStar
Sheep: as long as this thread has been momentarily steered off track (in a good way), I don't believe you're old enough to drink. So as to not "leave ya' hangin'", I'll have one on ya'! Cheers.
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Johnd said:
Craig: Nice work on the blind test. I'm enjoying a greater Manhattan right now with a Rocky Patel...pure decadence. Cheers.
At this time tomorrow, I will be enjoying a nice Cuban, Ketel One martini, and whatever game is on ... these biz trips are SO stressful ... ;)
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
JeffD2. said:
Agreed John. Hate takes soooo much energy. Just not worth it in the grand scheme of life. :rolleyes:
Jeff: That's good, positive energy...and a truism to cap it off. So who are the babes?
 
J

jakeman

Junior Audioholic
Ron Temple said:
Glad all you guys are kissing a making up...what a sidetrack...let's go to the Steam Vent and duke it out. Everyone's a big enough guy to defend themselves, what's ridiculous is all the anal and I mean prostate stimulating crap that get's passed between people who like subwoofers.

It's hilarious:D

Insults, agendas, sh*t flying from all directions. I'm so glad I jumped on board this hobby. It's sooo important.:p
Good post Ron. I've noticed you really do have the right attitude toward this stuff. By the way at this rate this thread will surpass the main thread. ;)
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
jakeman said:
Good post Ron. I've noticed you really do have the right attitude toward this stuff. By the way at this rate this thread will surpass the main thread. ;)
There was a main thread ? Can you post a link ?
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
OMG, 13 pages of what?! And now you guys are in steam vent to tug it out?

I vote for the mods to lock up this thread.
 
J

jmprader

Audioholic Intern
After Mr. Bott closed the AVS thread (Praise Jesus, Allah, Bhudda, God, gods, the Beatles or whichever religion you prefer...or not), I was wondering what to do with all the popcorn I bought (Sherv had previously declined to share his, obviously having a deeper understanding that hostilities would resume in the future).

Today was a long grind and I couldn't check in to the original thread until a bit ago. I come home to find this...Geeez my popcorn popper cannot pop fast enough to keep up...so I'm going to limit myself to one long rant of a post here (in what I guess is the 'steam vent'). Hope many of you who are really more interested in quietly enjoying Craig's thread will do the same.

I previously engaged in some brief PM'ng with some other usually polite posters along with a couple of the trolls who were over at AVS (both groups now having appeared/been redirected here...the trolls clearly having nothing better to do in life, I guess). I also have posted PM's to Craig and at least one of his AVS detractors/trolls over another degenerative thread and subsequent troll sightings.

Here is my take on PM interaction:

Craig is a straight talker when responding to PM's. I don't always agree with him, but he's a straight shooter with good intentions. If you ask him a question, he will answer it. I give him a lot of points for voluntarily doing his sub reviews in the midst of a bunch of cross-eyed, inbred hillbilly equivalents intent upon taking potshots at anything he posts. He, for the most part, has sucked it up and ignored them as long as possible even as they get their bellies full of their own moonshine and blast off with their all too predictable rants.

The detractor(s) I have PM'd just can't seem to respond in a similar manner to Craig. Double talk, quizzical BS, pseudo-science (...and mark my words, they will pronounce the "p" when reading this). You want to see a few representative responses to queries? PM me for some revelatory insights. Ken Lay's lawyers would love 'em and Martha Stewart might never have worn an ankle bracelet if these duffus'es had law degrees and any form of courtroom manner.

Out of respect to the OP and those who are here to listen and enjoy the hobby, I have chosen not to respond directly to anything, and I mean anything that any of these zealots/miscreants post. I won't name them, it's not necessary, and I don't and won't respond to any of the idioctic, self-serving diatribe they post.

One relatively neutral party, with whom I had a polite and humorous PM exhange, referred to the practice of "tilting at windmills" being similar to the BS the anti-Craig numbnuts post. That is what subverts otherwise polite and interesting threads from the sublime to the ridiculous. While it has been many years since I had serious discourse with respect to the work of Cervantes, the simile was irresistable and I had to relay it to my spouse (who, by the way, is better looking and a lot more fun than the mythical Dulcinea). She is curious as whether you venomous creeps didn't get too much sun in the deserts of Spain last summer, or is it just the long winter that shuts down the synapses until only the most primitive actions are possible?

A couple of posters and I arrived at a potential solution. Because the errant ways of the miscreants may be due to severe climactic conditions (I'm from "sunny" California, so what the heck do I know...), we were considering the formation of a pool of voluntary contributions from non-inflammatory posters and lurkers. This pool of funds would be made available to procure at least one of the ever offending Nimrods some "trim" so he will thaw out and maybe get a real life. I have already identified multiple potential services in the proximate geographical confines of one poster, and standard services are available at lower cost than in many other areas of this planet...and it's legal! A B-school buddy is within 100 miles and knows how to arrange it... Please pardon me if my terminology and "means to an end" crosses the "borders" as to tasteful decorum.

In any event, except for this posting in answer to the morons that continue to dog otherwise enjoyable threads, I will continue to hold true to my current AVS by-line "dedicated to ignoring the anti-Bob's".

Craig, I hope Audioholics permanently pulls the plug on these idiots as to your thread. Then they can go gnaw themselves in the darkness elsewhere...get jobs, counseling, girlfriends or boyfriends, meaningful and purposeful lives, lobotomies...anything.

My .02. I'm done here.



PS: full disclosure is I own a pair of HO turbos and a couple of other Hsu subs. Except for a problem (not SVS's fault) , I almost owned an SVS dual SS package last year, and I enjoy some friends SVS's, Velo's and other known subs on occasion...it's not about the firms, kids. I have a solid background in the history and evolution of Hi-fi. I have a fundamental understanding of speaker performance criteria, the impact of room acoustics and other aspects of the world of Hi-Fi and HT, have good ears for an old guy and had a high quality system before most, if not all, of the whiney boys F***g up Craig's threads were born. My professional career has given me a clear understanding of what constitutes a BS artist. Any questions?

...now I'm done. Please pardon any grammatical or spelling muffs.
 
ssabripo

ssabripo

Audioholic
furrycute said:
OMG, 13 pages of what?! And now you guys are in steam vent to tug it out?

I vote for the mods to lock up this thread.

as my neighbor's kid says:

WORd!! :D

seriously though, I dunno why I just spent the last 10 min reading thru the babble of the last 8 pages...i should be getting some zzz's instead. Man, talk about some serious stuff :p

you would think that someone slept with somebody's wife or something....holy smokes you people need a life...or a Porsche :eek:

(wait....I recall Chase is getting a Z06 C6, so he is excused)

ps- JM....I told ya you would seriously need Costco size popcorn buddy...."trim"? LMAO!! that was classic! :D I see you got a little rapper in you! :p Hey, we can always arrange trips to sunny South Beach here in Beautiful Miami. Plenty of outstanding Trim at relatively modest prices!! :eek:
 
Last edited:
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
I just glanced throught he first page, and gave up after that.

I mean for crying out loud, this is the steam vent, not a tech junkie's backyard. So what if one sub can extend 1Hz more than the other sub. And double so what if one sub can output 1db more than the other sub at the same frequency?



I say ditch them both and aget a Velodyne DD-15 and be done with it once and for all.
 

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