Help with reading standing waves, EQ, and bass settings

[moves]

I have been pondering and researching your problem. Those last pictures are helpful. Although it is a small room, it is very open and would not therefore likely develop intense standing waves. I was particularly concerned about your statement that your problem is relived to a high degree by using a mediocre sub rather then the bass extension of those speakers.

Did you carefully audition those speakers before purchase and under what conditions?

I ask this because I'm frankly concerned that those speakers despite looks and high price are not actually very good.

I had a bad feeling about your graph with concerns that it might actually show speaker resonance with a strong second harmonic.

Now I have not heard those speakers, and I can not find any third party measurements. I have come across quite a few subjective reports that say those speakers have "bloated" bass.

I have heard quite a few smaller Totem speakers. My overwhelming impression has been good but not quite right. I had a pair in for repair a little while back and to be honest the crossover was not quite optimal by measurement.

Now as I understand it, Totem are low on science and high on subjective tuning by ear. This can work to an extent with simpler designs.

You are not going to produce a complex design like that without careful measurement, thorough design calculations based on a thorough understanding of the physics of sound reproduction.

I have a number of concerns about this speaker. Yes, just concerns as that is as far as I can go with the information I can gather.

I have concerns there may be a strong cabinet resonance.

Due to the low F3 from that woofer I'm concerned that this is a high Q extended bass alignment, which I avoid like the plague.

I'm concerned about the crossover from woofer to mids at 180 Hz.

These are a problem for two reasons. The high component values tend to push driver Qs upwards and as Billy Woodman if ATC continually points out those passive low crossover points frequently results in electrical resonances in the crossovers. I think this is what Floyd Toole is referring to with his remarks about exotic high end speakers requiring arc welding amps to drive them because of incompetent design.

These low crossover points also make it next to impossible to get good sub integration. You end up with two crossover points too close together. This results in peaked band pass gain which is very hard to deal with and impossible without aids like mini DSP.

Lastly in general I have frequently found high priced exotic speakers to not be very good.

Lastly a hall mark of problem speakers is exacerbation of room problems, whereas better more competent designs minimize them.

The bottom line is that I have concerns that those speakers despite good looks and a high price, may not be your optimal option.

Thank you for your input. I auditioned them well and did not notice bloated bass. I spent about 2 hrs worth of time at this man's house and thought they worked well.

Currently, my left ear is maybe 8 inches above the left woofer where the woofer is just off axis to the left. When I stand up, I don't hear it being as boomy. Also, it is not boomy on everything, I am using Michael Jackson's - "a place with no name" from HDTracks as a demo because it is very boomy. On other music, I find that it is mostly controlled. On heavy house or some hip hop, it is a little boomy.

I am not sure what kind of science Totem uses but I am sure that they use measurements and not just rely on out it sounds.

I am not sure about the issue with the sub integration because I don't know how the physic of it works but I guess I will just see once I get a larger room.

Overall, I am happy with them. I had an older pair of Totem Forests and traded it with cash for the Winds. The seller was asking $7800 CAD for them bought new 9 months ago (retail 10700 after tax CAD) I gave him $5500 with my Forests. I probably should have just waited and kept my Forests as they were very nice but I pocket was itchy. So basically, 9 month old Totem Winds for about $7200 CAD The price was a little high in my opinion by maybe about $600 - 700 but I had my speakers with me as well for him to try and it was just convenient to have gotten rid of the Forests as the same time.

They will be fine. I got a noise complaint yesterday at 6:30 p.m. after demoing the speakers to a buddy for about 2 hrs.... oops....

 

[TLS Guy]

If that is the case with the high Q, would this circuit work
https://www.minidsp.com/applications/advanced-tools/linkwitz-transform

I didn't see that it was a ported speaker and since the circuit was designed for sealed enclosures it came to mind as I use it with my subs.

I really don't know. I certainly can not be certain it is high Q. However Totem are not forthcoming about this speaker at all.

This is the most detailed description I can find from Home Theater review.

[The woofer and midrange drivers are also housed in separate but interlinked sub-enclosures, and the cabinet is of a monocoque design, a construction technique that supports structural load by using the loudspeaker's external skin, as opposed to an internal frame. This design, along with a unique "skid plate" bottom plate, helps to dissipate unwanted sonically deleterious internal vibrations.]

To say my BS alarms on over drive is grossly understated. I have never heard of any sealed speaker reaching the low 20s without a lot of EQ and therefore an active design. Interlinking the bass and mid/woofer enclosures sounds highly irregular. I have never known putting speakers of different T/S parameters in the same or connecting enclosures result in anything good.

Then the idea of using the speakers skin and a skid plate to control cabinet resonance sounds highly fanciful.

I have to say I have severe reservations about all of this as at first glance it makes no sense at all.

Lastly if you are going to market something like this and claim extraordinary performance it really is incumbent on the designer to be forthcoming on the principles of the design so it can be opened up to peer review, and measurement.

Pending all of this I have to regard this speaker as odd ball in the extreme and of untested virtue and performance.

 

[moves]

Soooo I think i screwed up... I had the negative from the speaker going into the 8 ohm load on the back of the mac and the positive into the 4 ohm. :S...... Now I got the negative coming from the speaker into the COM port on the back of the MC amp.... my ish was out of phase. It sounds better now.