Help needed to expand my PC based 2.0 audio to HT setup.

[Bexiesbruv]

I currently run an external dac to my Sony 7075 (circa 1978) and a pair of Ditton LS10 bookshelf speakers (circa 1988)
I attached a powered Sub woofer today (I have another thread regarding its demise after an hour) and really enjoyed what it did for my listening experience.
I have been toying with the notion of un-cluttering my desktop by removing my amp and speakers and buying powered (bi-amped) studio monitors (Used http://www.krksys.com/krk-studio-monitor-speakers/rokit/rokit-5.html or 6 G3 are the likely purchase). the Sony and Dittons will be donated to my daughter along with my Acoustic Research legend record Deck and my collection of few hundred vinyl albums from the 70's onward. She expressed a desire to "get into" vinyl.
It should be noted, I also have a Sony STR DE 545 bought in 2000 that has quite a bit of dust on, but I would think the speakers are all still good, it was only used for a few months then boxed.
I also have some floor standing speakers from Fisher, SES and Wharfdale.
Now, the issue is the sub. I would like to add one, but not necessarily the matched one from KRK Systems.
How do I match a sub to the speakers and what type of sub do i need to look for that would allow for balanced or unbalanced input and output to the Rokits?
The external dac is rca only.
Eventually, I want to move the set up to my TV (about 8 ft from the PC) and add surround sound and watch movies (exclusively) from the PC. I have no cable or satellite TV, nor a cd or dvd player (except in the PC) watch a bit from Netflix and have all my movies accessed from Plex or a dedicated player like VLC.
Budget is about $350 for the powered speakers (used)
I am OK with about another $700 and would prefer better used/unboxed/refurbished equipment.
TV room is about 16ft square and the TV is going to sit in the middle of one wall.
My main motivation here is the recent movie "Interstellar". I cannot bear the thought of buying it on DVD and watching it on my PC through my current hi fi set up. I never should have gone to watch it at the movie theater. Also, I am in Canada and so buying from the US is likely not going to be practical.

Well there it is, any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Bex

 

[Bexiesbruv]

One more thing. My PC has an HDMI out to my TV right now.

 

[TLS Guy]

Speakers make or break a system. You have been used to some very decent speakers. Not the top of the Celestion line, but very good.
They were made before Celestion was turned into a jink line by Goldmark Industries Hong Kong.

So you had better make sure the replacements are as good. The Celestions have a nice balanced laid back sound. I bet the replacements will be much more in your face. My guess is they will sound very different, so you had better audition first.

You might want to just add a good sub first and see how you get on.

By the way I don't see how you connected that receiver to a sub, unless the sub had speaker level inputs.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

I have auditioned them and I believe I will be OK with them, thanks.

As for connection, the dac went from the usb on my pc via an rca piggyback from the sony straight to the sub then I figured out that I have to run speaker wire back to my Sony amp from the sub and from it to the speakers.

Thanks for the comment about the Dittons, first time anyone has been positive (on a forum) about them. I do like them, a lot, but want my daughter to have them. I am confident she will enjoy them too.

But lets play devils advocate right now and assume I keep the Dittons.
What do I look for in a sub that will match them? How do I do that.
Remember also, I want to move the whole thing over to my TV in the not too distant future. I do have another couple pair of (Mission and JBL) bookshelves as well.
Could I use the Missions as a center speaker, (I read that someone did this) wired in parallel (or is it in series)? with the Wharfdales or fishers as the fronts and another sub? Then use the JBL's for rears?. Or are the speakers specific to the job they are required to do?

Would I be better off with a PC based AV set up?
I dont want or need a radio receiver in all of this.
I really dont have a clue do I?

 

[TLS Guy]

I have auditioned them and I believe I will be OK with them, thanks.

As for connection, the dac went from the usb on my pc via an rca piggyback from the sony straight to the sub then I figured out that I have to run speaker wire back to my Sony amp from the sub and from it to the speakers.

Thanks for the comment about the Dittons, first time anyone has been positive (on a forum) about them. I do like them, a lot, but want my daughter to have them. I am confident she will enjoy them too.

But lets play devils advocate right now and assume I keep the Dittons.
What do I look for in a sub that will match them? How do I do that.
Remember also, I want to move the whole thing over to my TV in the not too distant future. I do have another couple pair of (Mission and JBL) bookshelves as well.
Could I use the Missions as a center speaker, (I read that someone did this) wired in parallel (or is it in series)? with the Wharfdales or fishers as the fronts and another sub? Then use the JBL's for rears?. Or are the speakers specific to the job they are required to do?

Would I be better off with a PC based AV set up?
I dont want or need a radio receiver in all of this.
I really dont have a clue do I?

First of all using a computer to control HT is in its infancy and the province of skilled DIYers.

Not that specialized computers are not useful as part of HT and audio, they can be.

I have two of them in my rig, one dedicated as an audio workstation, the other as a dedicated HTPC. Both are my DIY design and construction.

How ever I do not use a computer as the main controller. I'm thinking about it, along with a lot of other in the DIY arena, because of the fact that receivers and pre/pros are not really able to be updated, although Denon have introduced one with limited capability for that. What is really required are controller devices that are truly modular with plug in and out modules. No such devices exist.

So if you are going the HT route, then you need a receiver. If you plan on using powered/bi-amped speakers then you need a receiver with 7.1, or 7.2 preouts.

You can certainly connect your computer to this device and in fact improve on it. I think a well designed and built HTPC is pure joy.

Now I really hate choosing people's equipment for them. Only you know your budget, tastes and what you want to achieve. As far as speakers, you now tell me you have a set of Mission speakers. What are they? It seems to me most likely they would make good mains. You could use one of the Celestions as the center. Use one not two connected to the center channel. I think they will match well actually. You could use the JBLs as surrounds.

As far as a sub, you need a good one. If you have carpentry skills DIY is the performance per dollar.

By the way you well end up with a radio whether you like it or not most likely, but you don't have to use it.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

Yeah. Sorry Too omit the info about speakers. I have them lying about all over the place. The missions are also bookshelf. The fishers and another set of celestions (not wharfdales) ate floor mount.
Here is what i thought i could do.
My pc is also a Plex server.
Irun hdmi from it to my tv.
I can run sound through hdmi Or the external dac.
But this still only gives me stereo plus the sub. So i wondered if there was an external sound or video card that would do the Job.
It's there Just a controller that everything could plug into.
I have no issue with folks suggesting equipment. My budget outs about $700 for used quality.
Iam sitting on some info about some jbl speakers. More about that When i have it.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

Sorry about the typos.no glasses and typing on a phone

 

[TLS Guy]

Sorry about the typos.no glasses and typing on a phone

There really is not. The codecs have to go somewhere.

Now you could build an HTPC. This would allow you to play from streamed sources, your storage and play CD, DVD,s and Blu Ray discs.

You need to load good software, I use arcsoft for the codecs. Most of the software is lousy so you have to be careful.

Now your next problem is that without a receiver you have a problem. You could connect the HTPC to the TV, but then you have limited options for audio out, only optical to your DAC and this does not have satisfactory program and a lot of sources will only output stereo.

Now this HTPC build will cost you just north of $1000 USD with software.

For your budget you can buy a very nice new receiver. I would not buy a used receiver.

You have speakers, you have a TV. You can connect your current PC to the receiver with HDMI and youare set. In addition you will have a lot of functionality you don't have now. Then you can look for a sub or build one. Your in Canada, and so I would price Yamaha, Denon and Marantz receivers and see what strikes your fancy and you likely will have money left over for a sub.

That is what I would do. If you try something different it will cost you more and not have the functionality. In HT you really do need to go Peripherals to receiver or pre/pro and out to TV as an end device and the speakers. On my TVs I only use the on/off button, no other controls once set up.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

Chatting with my Son on the way home I realised my attempt to cover both options (audio and HT from my PC was going to be futile. He and I could build a HTPC. He has put together a very good gaming system and I built my work station PC but I believe you are correct. Its just plain easier to run two systems. Music from the PC and HT to a receiver from the pc and all the speakers I already have should work OK.
This last is a surprise though. I honestly thought I had to have dedicated speakers with particular characteristics for rear, front etc.

What is the term Pre/Pro please?

Give me a starting point (models) for the purchase of a receiver within the names you have mentioned if you will please.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think those speakers will work. The Celestions and the Missions should be a good match. See which ones you like best, I suspect the Missions have the edge. Anyhow use the ones you like best for left and front right. The rear speakers are not critical. My hunch is to best those speakers would require a significant investment. There is a lot of junk out there now with poorly made Chinese drivers, although some drivers are OK.

I'm not going to pick your receiver, I don't study them in detail and don't use one. However try and stick as close to the mid price point or above in the range. I think cheap receivers are trouble and would avoid them. This side of the border $400 and up can get you good gear.

A pre/pro is basically half of a receiver. They have no power amps, and so need external amps to get sound out of them.

I need six amps to drive my front two speakers, and 14 amps for the total system, so a receiver does not fit my bill.

I personally think that computers are useful in audio. I have mine integrated into the system and neither has its own speakers. I don't see the point.

This is the audio workstation.

The DAC is the blue unit above the tower.

The HTPC is the unit above the APC UPS, and to the right of the audio workstation.

This is the build album for the HTPC

The HTPC has an SSD and a large storage magneto/optical drive.

You can see the whole studio album, if you click on the SmugMug link at the bottom of my posts.

You will note by the pictures on page four a changed the screen to a larger one a year ago.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

Nice.
I visit a lot of homes with movie theaters installed, but rarely do they appear to be used. Its just something to put in the home building plans (lots of oilfield money around here). So there is plenty of money spent but not, in my opinion, much thought gone into the system, at least not by the owner. Its more a "I want a home theater, build me one".
Yours looks and very personal. Certainly not as massive as some I have come across but way, way more impressive. Thanks for sharing.

Back to my purchase.
So, I only need a receiver, speaker wire, connects and some stands to put the speakers on, and a sub.
Why might I need wireless or bluetooth in the receiver. I can't think of a reason, but I want to be sure I know, before I dismiss.
I am pretty sure all the speakers I have are 8 ohm so do I need to be looking at that for output on a receiver?

 

[Bexiesbruv]

Also. Looking at whats around, what type of sub do I want to be getting. So far I have not seen any receivers that show anything other than a single rca input. How does a powered sub work in my situation? The two I messed with at the weekend were both powered....were they not for home theater...just for audio?

 

[Topken]

I have to chime in here for a moment. Depending on your needs a $1k+ HTPC might not be needed at all. Something a whole lot cheaper might suffice quite easily.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

I have to chime in here for a moment. Depending on your needs a $1k+ HTPC might not be needed at all. Something a whole lot cheaper might suffice quite easily.

Please elaborate, any and all info is helpful.
I am still trying to figure out if there is a difference between a sub for music listening and one for audio in a movie.

 

[Topken]

HTPC I might be able to help with speakers/subs I have no idea about but you are on the right forums for that. What do you need the HTPC to do? And remember since the HTPC is a PC it can easily handle Audio playback duties as well. Also how are you going to setup your media? AKA going the NAS route or disc route? Will you be ripping your movies to a NAS/PC for playback or do you need a disc drive? Also any Live Sports watching via something like the HD homerun or something? Any 3D videos? I need to know so I can help with the device. 1080p playback by itself does not need anything more then something like a Fire TV Stick running XBMC/Kodi. they recently changed the name of it. While something like 3D MVC format requires an i3 running Windows.

 

[Bexiesbruv]

I have an HDMI out to my TV from the PC.
I share my TV screen with my PC.
I use Plex or simply drag a VLC media player window to the TV and watch a movie with sound coming from just the TV.
I have no other speakers or receiver.
I want to be able to create a surround sound system based around the PC but it appears that might be expensive or impracticable.
I am ok with Ubunto or Windows and have no issue with a dual boot system.
I have all my media on two, 3TB USB drives.
I watch some Netflix and Sportsnet, no cable or satellite.

I am interested in what you have to say but frankly, in light of what I have already been told, I am moving toward
1. Repairing one of two (broken) powered Subs I have.
2. Making use of the various speakers I have lying around that I now understand are likely better quality than my current budget will allow for.
2. Using the bulk of my budget ($700) for the purchase of a receiver.

Many thanks

 

[Topken]

When using HDMI from the PC it acts like any other AV equipment so a simple AVR+ speaker setup will be perfectly fine. If not a a simple USB device with toslink out would get it working. So yeah it won't be any more money to keep your current pc in the mix. Compared to buying something to replace it. Like I said I can't help with the speakers/sub but the others here should be able to help. Your current PC will work perfectly fine in a AVR setup. I was thinking USB soundcard incase you have to plug the PC into the HDTV bypassing the AVr and could run a cable from the soundcard to the AVR most avrs have at least 1 toslink in unless thats being phased out or has been phased out. I currently have no knlowdge of any of this. Currently don't have an AVR+ speaker setup just a HTIB in the living that only has a single Toslink input. Once we move I will be looking at replacing that with a proper AVR+ 5.1 speaker setup. I am also looking at getting a soundbar for the bedroom as well.