help me

[Wafflesomd]

Ok, I've pretty much givin up on finding speakers, I just suck at it. So I'm lloking for help from you guys.

I would like two floor speakers and 4 bookshelf speakers.

I would like to keep the floor speakers wattage under 200w each.

And I would like the bookshelf's to be 100w or less each.

I'm on a budget as well, hopefully someone can help me.

I should probly specify my recievers. I have a pioneer vsx- 815, and some old JVC 340w, 170w per channel. they are both 8 ohm impedence.

 

[jaxvon]

Okay. What is your budget? And why the wattage restriction? It doesn't really matter what the 'wattage' rating is, as long as your amplifier doesn't overpower the speakers and the speakers aren't horribly inefficient.


BTW, nice avatar. Those are some good cans!

 

[Wafflesomd]

Why thank you, yah, these MDR V6's are some seriously nice cans.


Well, the pioneer puts out 100w per channel the jvc does 170 per channel, I mean, isnt it better to have the wattage near the stated wattage of the speaker?

Hmmm, budget wise? Well, I'm 17, and can work with my dad and make about 200$ every other week.

 

[markw]

Get off that wattage kick.

Read some of the FAQ's on this site to get some idea of what they are all about.

But, in the meantinme I'd suggest you look for a pair of Athena AS-F2's floorstanders. They sound like something you could live with.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Alrighty, those look good.

So those would take car of my floor speakers.

What else would you reccomend

 

[markw]

Their booksehelves are nice. The AS-B2's are the larger of the two. While you're at it you might want to consider their center if HT is in the offing.

...you might want to click on and check out my HT system.

 

[Nick250]

Why thank you, yah, these MDR V6's are some seriously nice cans.


Well, the pioneer puts out 100w per channel the jvc does 170 per channel, I mean, isnt it better to have the wattage near the stated wattage of the speaker?

Hmmm, budget wise? Well, I'm 17, and can work with my dad and make about 200$ every other week.

It's still unclear to me how much you want to spend for speakers.

Nick

 

[jaxvon]

I have the "Professional" model MDR-7506 that I use every day for pleasure listening and the occasional studio stuff.

Anyway, to the topic at hand. I see you have the Pioneer VSX-815. I have the bigger brother, the 1015tx. These are both good units. Any quality 8-ohm speaker (excepting B&W, as they have wacky impedance fluctuations) speaker should be driven reasonably well by your receiver.

I see that you can save $200 a week. That can add up to a lot if you save up for many weeks! Just how much you're willing to drop is up to you, and we'd be able to give you less vague advice if you could tell us where you're looking for a total budget right now. Do you plan on just getting some towers at first, or the whole shebang? Do you have a DVD player or something of that nature already?

 

[Wafflesomd]

Ok, I'm just gonna set my bdget at 700$.

And right now, I'm really just goin for towers, my room isnt big enought to justify a home theatre setup, and I dont really watch movies, it all just music.

Besides, I've come to learn that most stereo systems are better for music and 5.1 o 7.1.

 

[rikmeister]

well i would save and look on audiogon for some demos or used.

right now you can get good prices on von schweikert with model changes. just saw b&w 803 for around 2000.00 there and they are much much more than that new. you could look at quads 1090 for floorstanders and around 550.00 for the bookselfs excellents speakers. if you buy good ones you can resell and upgrade later on. if you buy cheap well you will get something for them but the shipping will cost more than you can sell them for in reality. but it right the first time and you are set for years. otherwise just buy some insignias and be happy for lots less. used is the way to go.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Insignia's are a bad thing. M y freind went out and got 4 of them. They dont go so well with my amp. My pioneer gives me the Overload error message when I have those in 4 channels, and hit it up to -35 dB.

And that last post, you are way outa my price range.

 

[jaxvon]

Okay. You can do pretty well for $700 and a pair of floorstanders. I would try to find the local hi-fi dealers and do a little tour. Many of them are willing to sell floor model speakers at discounted prices. I would think that you could find a nice pair of speakers for $700, especially if you could offer cash.

Remember, be patient. You will find the speakers you like.

Oh, and try to find 8-ohm towers. Though that might be difficult. If your JVC does 4-ohm towers, then you can just use it for now. And down the road, you can get a quality amp to drive the towers from the pre-outs on your Pioneer.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Hmmm, anyone know of a way to find some hi fi stores or sellers in your area?


But yah, I had a fun moment once I got my pioneer. Granted, I'm an audio noob, the only thing I really know is that I like getting me and my freinds stuff loud.

Anyways, I get my pioneer, and I was in awe at its 700w, 100x7 wattage rating. But I was a little confused, I see these awsome hi fi towers, but they are rated at, say 400w.

It then hit me, thats what the pre-outs are for......

Yah, it was a fun moment realizing that these 100x7w channels are kinda useless when you get into the big stuff.

 

[Sheep]

Hmmm, anyone know of a way to find some hi fi stores or sellers in your area?


But yah, I had a fun moment once I got my pioneer. Granted, I'm an audio noob, the only thing I really know is that I like getting me and my freinds stuff loud.

Anyways, I get my pioneer, and I was in awe at its 700w, 100x7 wattage rating. But I was a little confused, I see these awsome hi fi towers, but they are rated at, say 400w.

It then hit me, thats what the pre-outs are for......

Yah, it was a fun moment realizing that these 100x7w channels are kinda useless when you get into the big stuff.

Time to really screw with your head.

That receiver is only capable of 100 watts x 2 channels. It will not put out 100 watts on every channel, ACD(All Channels Driven).

SheepStar

 

[Wafflesomd]

Yah, I dont get it, its rated 100w through 7 channls.

In that case, how many watts are going to the channels, if all are enabled.

Well since someone will probly explain it to me, can someone maybe also explain bi-amp to me. I read the review on this receiver, but I dont quite get it.

 

[markw]

Yah, I dont get it, its rated 100w through 7 channls.

In that case, how many watts are going to the channels, if all are enabled.

maybe 25 - 30 if you're lucky.

 

[Darth Mike]

wafflesomd,

I'm 18 bro, I know what a stiff budget feels like. So it seems, you are more into loud and high SPL over sound quality, or maybe a mix of both. Be careful you don't wanna hurt your ears, most of the time if you realize its too loud, chances are it's already too late. I'm more into very good SQ with reasonable output capabilities, over amazingly high SPL and less quality. I was there once, but I got into the hobby at a younger age, now I have a lesser ability to hear high frequencies, and the desire to listen to a system that is as close to lifelike as possible for the least coin.

I don't know how much knowledge you have with audio so I'll explain a few things:

Your oldschool JVC amp will undoubtedly drive a set of speakers a small amount louder than your Pioneer reciever. But the question is; Is that small increase in volume worth the loss in quality? Being older and not of super high quality, the JVC will probably not be quite as clean sounding, really, the extra volume will not be noticed much. Yet the increase in quality from the Pioneer will be easily spotted.

I would suggest that you go for the higher quality but lower power output ability of your reciever. With the budget you have, I'd also have to say to go for a speaker with the highest sesitivity rating you can find, because that will get the most out of your amp.

Also, look into the impedence capabilities of your amp and see what it can handle. Buying an 8ohm speaker for an amp that can handle 4ohms is kind of a waste of power if you are going for loud volumes, but make sure you don't go under the recommended impedence range as there are flaws in the "protect" mode of amps and they don't always shut down fast enough, you will be paying for a repair bill if you overdrive the amp.

Speaker efficiency is very important when you desire to get the most volume possible from your amp. When a manufacturer determines the efficiency of a speaker the standard method is to play a test tone thru a speaker at 1 watt and measure the spl with a microphone at 1 foot away. So a 90dB@1ft.&1w sensitivity rated speaker will play louder with the same amount of power as an 87dB@1ft.&1w rated speaker of equal size and specs.

Remember:

To get 3dB more volume output you have to double the effective power going to a speaker, and for every 3dB increase in volume there is a very SMALL increase in loudness.
example: a 200 watt RMS speaker getting 100 rms watts playing at 100dB would need 200 watts RMS to play at 103dB

To get twice the volume out of a capable speaker you have to increase the effective power to it 10 times.
example: a large 500 watt RMS speaker getting 50 watts RMS playing at 90dB would need 500 watts rms to play at 180dB

So sometimes a small power increase really isn't worth the sacrifice of money or sound quality.

Determining a speaker's ability to handle power:

An amplifier's true ability of output lies in its RMS power figure. The higher the RMS wattage, the more continuous power it can pump to a bigger, higher rated speaker at all times. If you find a speaker you love the sound of but your amp is too small to match the RMS power, no biggie, just upgrade your amp later when you can... But try to make sure the amp you have can do at least 70% of the speaker's RMS power reliably. But, in order to get the most from a speaker, use the "3/4 rule", I didn't make this up, I found it through the polk audio website, it may be elsewhere as well.

“The 3/4 Rule”: divide the continuous rating by .75 to calculate the maximum amplifier size.

Here's an example as a rough estimate of matching an amp to a speaker power wise using that method:

You have a 100 watt RMS per channel amp, and two sets of speakers to choose from....

Speaker A has an RMS power rating of 70 watts and an effciency rating of 90dB@1ft.&1w

Speaker B has an RMS power rating of 100 watts and an efficiency rating of 87dB@1ft.&1w

Which one do you choose? Speaker A, because @70w RMS you can safely use an amp as close to a 93 watt RMS [70/.75 = 93.3] as possible. An amp that is 100 watts RMS is a reasonably close figure. As a bonus the higher efficiency rating of speaker A will allow it to play louder with that same 100 RMS watts. Speaker B would need twice the power to play at the same level as speaker A since it is 3dB less efficient, and given the "3/4 Rule", it would ideally need 133 RMS watts [100/.75=133.3]to get the most out of it. But, to make up for it's inefficiency compared to speaker A, speaker B would need 200 RMS watts to play just as loud. Therefor speaker A hands down is FTW...

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you.

-Mike

 

[Wafflesomd]

Wow, that was a heck of a lot to take in, but I'm pretty sure I get the things you said. I'm gonna read it over a couple times.

Hmmm, thats kinda dissapointing, looks like that big "100wx7" label got me

I'm still a little unsure of what to actually get, I'll take a couple trips to say, circuit city, best buy, and some other electronics stores.

 

[Wafflesomd]

Hmmm, I dont actually think I'm in the look out for loud really.

After what you've told me about my pioneer not being actually 100wx7, I've had
two 165w and two 125w speakers hooked up to it, on 7 channel stereo, and it gets loud enough that i can stand in the same room with them.

 

[JAD2]

Want a simple way to know what output you have closer to reality.
Look at the back panel or owners manual for max wattage ratings, what the unit consumes. You cannot have real output wattages exceeding speaker ratings per channel.
Take that number, max wattage and multiply it 70-80% and then divide the number of max channels it can drive into it. That number will be the max watts per channel it could possibly put out.

Unless its rated 20khz-20,000hz on the 2 channel output mode, it wont put out anymore than the surround rating you figured out will per channel.

You want something affordable for speakers , look to ebay and Polks. R-30's and R-15's will do the job for under your max. They are neutral sounding speakers that sound way to good for their price. Once you go over these speakers and higher ended ones that are always suggested, they tend to get bright, too much accent on high end tones. Lest for me they are way to bright and even the RTi line of Polks is a tad too bright for me!!