Help me choose Espresso Machine

BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm a little late as usual, but I can sympathize with being a cheap bastard. I'm typically that way too. I see you already bought a machine. I was going to say if you're looking cheap, I bought one of these about 4-5 years ago to replace a $29 Mr Coffee Espresso machine that was as low as you could go-
Cuisinart EM-100 1000-Watt 15-Bar Espresso Maker, Stainless Steel: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining

That one is still serving me well, I used to just use on weekends and when I work from home 1 or 2 days a week. For the past 10 months I've been using it daily since our one year old started going to daycare. I've been lucky to have no problems with it, and works well for me. But I'm also not very picky on my coffee, I do not like espresso straight up, I need it in a mocha of some sort. I do not have a good grinder, so I buy beans pre-ground from Caribou or various Lavazza off of Amazon. But I might have to look into the Fairway beans and give those a try, especially since they will pregrind them (I have a cheap grinder as a gift, not a burr grinder).

I would say typically the biggest issue with the cheap machines is the milk frothing. It can be time consuming to get it hot enough. So if it seems like it's taking a while, well, that's not unusual.
Sorry for Hijacking back Coffee Roasting turned thread :)

Thanks for chiming in. I looks our mutual idea of price for coffee makes is in the same ballpark :)

I will tell you this and many others will confirm this - don't buy pre-ground coffee. Simple reason - ground coffee goes stale within a week (two tops), while whole can be fresh for several months.

One thing you can do right now to improve your coffee is invest in a decent burr-grinder
I saved few bucks on mine (still very good model) - which I somewhat regret now - I should have bought this one from the start
Amazon.com: Gaggia 8002 MDF Burr Grinder with Doser, Black: Kitchen & Dining

People bought it under $200 - watch for good deals on it

I bought ground coffee from amazon before and never liked the results - it was ALWAYS stale :(
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Sweet Maria's (local for me) is where the guy from Coffee Critic just recommended I go for a grinder.

**Coffee Critic is changing ownership too, over the next few days. I was unable to place an order, but he said they would call back and get me what I need if they have it.

I buy ground from Critic because they grind when you order (ideally, I pick it up there, but it is a 2hr drive) and I only order in small batches. It gets to me the next day and retains the flavor long enough for us to finish a bag, because it doesn't last :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Sweet Maria's (local for me) is where the guy from Coffee Critic just recommended I go for a grinder.

**Coffee Critic is changing ownership too, over the next few days.
If you don't like how the Coffee Critic's quality is after the ownership change, you might try roasted coffee from Sweet Maria's. They roast small amounts of different varieties each week. I haven't tried their roasted coffee, but I would guess their product is first rate.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
If you don't like how the Coffee Critic's quality is after the ownership change, you might try roasted coffee from Sweet Maria's. They roast small amounts of different varieties each week. I haven't tried their roasted coffee, but I would guess their product is first rate.
That's what the guy I talked to said also, since Sweet Maria's are even closer to me (about 40 min). They said the current/former owner would still be involved with the new place, so I will see how things go after the switch.

I've got another place in town that is excellent; probably the best in town here. They pretty much just serve though, they don't really have much in the way of beans. I don't think they roast or grind on site. **Looks like they get their coffee from a place on the coast, which is also about 40 min away.

What we've been buying recently is the New Guinea Garuda blend from Peets, but it isn't quite as good as Critic's Blend http://www.peets.com/shop/coffee_detail.asp?id=52&cid=1000154
 
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avnetguy

avnetguy

Audioholic Chief
Two of my fav beans are Mexican Altura H.G and Brazil Santos.

Steve
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Dan, I haven't had espresso making ability in years. But thanks to opening my eyes to the possibility of lighter roasting for that application. "A man, a plan, a canal, Panama!" There is my mnemonic for retaining your recommendation, now I'll never forget it. :D

Swerd, lots of good info, I imagine you must be right about any given machine's idiosyncrasies, but in a number of cases, 2 minutes after the onset of 1C you are already at 2C when using the Behmor at highest heat, including that Peruvian I like.

My line voltage is steady and closer to 119 volts, so I'm lucky that way, and that is a good point to bring up. I've seen some Behmor owners complain about underroasting, and voltage is sure a hot topic. Oh, I'm so punny. Still, I found the Behmor to be very "conservative", and I'm not going to waste people's time here detailing that unless they are very serious about buying one. The few traits I will share: It's quite easy to hear 1C, and even 2C. 1C is always louder than 2C in my experiences. 1C is always similar because it's always H2O and CO2, where 2C is the (individual) bean matrix itself breaking down. It's pretty much always quieter and quicker, I think.

Are there roasting tips given at all on the coffee bags from SM's? The RM labels have mini-descriptions, and always (or at least almost always) give recommendations for roast level. Sometimes it's "city roast is great, but acidity can still hold up to darker roasts" or something like that, to something much more specific like, "we recommend taking this right to the cusp of 2C". One or maybe even possibly two bags even say something like "For Behmor users, we recommend such and such roast profile". I think the next episode of my roasting life will do with shaving small increments off the roast time.

How much degassing time do you guys find you need? I've seen some people say as low as 6 hours, but I'm pretty sure I need at the very minimum an overnight wait, and I'm almost as convinced that even a 2nd day makes it taste better. I'm sure that depends on the bean and roast, but anyway. I did not know AA vs AB was bean size. That makes me wonder what the Peaberry would be.

Oh that Kona was gifted out of nowhere when a mutual friend (who made the whole thing happen, and was the one to hand me the beans) told her how I was getting into roasting. Coincidentally, she is the artist friend that I started a projector thread for some years ago here. Anyway, I just now shot off an email to see what kind of info I could possibly obtain in case anyone here wanted to buy some. I'm not even sure if they're available to normal consumers or not, we will see.

I don't have clever mnemonics for Chiapas and Kenya, but at least I can always dig back into this thread later on. Thank you.

edit: Friend got back to me, I think* she was implying that it's $15/lb, and you weren't kidding about the price!! Oi! I have a phone # now, I can give by PM, but after shipping, my guess is that no one is interested even if the shipping was free. I'll update if info changes. I will say the coffee was totally amazing. But that's pricey.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Swerd, lots of good info, I imagine you must be right about any given machine's idiosyncrasies, but in a number of cases, 2 minutes after the onset of 1C you are already at 2C when using the Behmor at highest heat.
That's one of the different features of the Nesco roaster, it goes slower between 1C and 2C. It theoretically gives you more time to hit different levels of medium roast.
Are there roasting tips given at all on the coffee bags from SM's?
Yes, the SM bag labels have roasting tips and taste descriptions. Here is an example from one of the bags I recently got:

Costa Rica Finca Salaca Las Brisas
City+ to FC. Crisp red apple, white grape, blackberry, creamy body, baker's chocolate finish, as the cup cools it reminds you of chocolate milk​

Here is the longer version from the web site. Most of the taste descriptions seem like too much ridiculous verbiage, but when I find I like a particular coffee, I go back and read it again and it makes a lot more sense. I told you the guy who runs SMs talks a lot :D. But there is a method to his madness.

I recently made a big order because SM's said their Central American coffees for the year are all delivered. No more until the next crop.
Guatemala Huehetenango Finca Rosma 5 lbs
Costa Rica Finca Salaca Las Brisas 2 lbs
Costa Rica Tarrazu Finca La Ortiga 2 lbs
Panama Volcancito Don K 2 lbs
Kenya Nyeri AB Gatomboya 2 lbs
Guatemala La Maridad SWP decaf 1 lb
So I stocked up :D. We'll see how well it stands up through the winter and spring. I had the Guat Finca Rosma earlier this summer and loved it, and another delivery came in, so I got 5 lbs. Thanks for the offer on the Kona, but I think I have enough.
How much degassing time do you guys find you need? I've seen some people say as low as 6 hours, but I'm pretty sure I need at the very minimum an overnight wait, and I'm almost as convinced that even a 2nd day makes it taste better. I'm sure that depends on the bean and roast, but anyway.
Like you, I rest the coffee at least overnight. The Centrals seem to do well with 1 or 2 days rest, but the Kenyans seem to do better with at least 3 days.
I did not know AA vs AB was bean size. That makes me wonder what the Peaberry would be.
Peaberries are said to be smaller and more round. Most coffee cherries have 2 seeds, but the peaberries have only 1. If I remember correctly, the peaberries are found on the growing tip of a branch, so they are less common and require more hand work. They are said to have more intense flavor.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I never knew that about peaberries, and thanks for the heads up on the Kenya rest period. SM is the first coffee site that I ever learned about, and it was their DIY roasting page that got me to finally try all this out. If they had a deal that was equivalent to RM's it is certain I would have bought from them firstly. It is just a matter of time before I order from them, and I sort of had it in my mind that it could be as soon as my next purchase. I believe I currently have about 12.5 lbs right now, among 7 varieties, and I never considered seasonal stock before, so thanks for the heads up there as well.

That feature of the Nesco is really neat, and does make a lot of sense. Now I wonder why the Behmor always ends with highest heat (any intermediate level is always before), at least according to the approximated graphs in the back of the manual. I wonder what the philosophy behind that is.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I never knew that about peaberries
Last winter, I read Home Coffee Roasting by Kenneth Davids. It has lots of useful info.
That feature of the Nesco is really neat, and does make a lot of sense. Now I wonder why the Behmor always ends with highest heat (any intermediate level is always before), at least according to the approximated graphs in the back of the manual. I wonder what the philosophy behind that is.
The Nesco is about as simple and low powered a roaster as there is, and that's why I originally got it. That, and the catalytic converter to minimize smoke.

Other home roaster people believe its underpowered. It may depend on how dark you want to roast, and how much you want to roast at a time. The Behmor is the cheapest drum roaster available, and it has a lot more user controls. For roughly $300, DIY people expect more of that. You've already spent time learning how to use it, and you do get results you like.

The only thing I would suggest is finding a faster way to cool the beans. Imagine hot coffee beans sitting in a wire mesh colander on top of a fan. Arrange the fan so it pulls air down through the beans. The green thing in the 2nd photo is a cheap plastic bucket (5 gallon?) with the bottom cut off. There are many other simple, elaborate, or just entertaining DIY ideas here:



 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I appreciate the suggestions, Swerd. I should have been much clearer about how mine works. The Behmor ends with highest heat during the "roast-application" (for lack of better words!), which is immediately followed by a cool-down application. There is an "emergency" button we could hit simply called "off", but it should never be used outside of emergency because damage could be inflicted upon the machine, and I'm pretty sure that's what the manual said.

So if I knew that a certain amount of time would be perfect for x minutes on x beans, I could just let the heat/cool cycles run by themselves, but what I do is instead hit the cooldown button manually when I want to "pull the roast". Which is probably a technically incorrect term, as there is usually some "coasting", and therefore we need to sort of predict the cooldown about 10-15 secs in advance.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I had heard of the Civet coffee, but elephant is new...and just as odd. The first thing I thought of was Cheech & Chong.
 
A

armaraas

Full Audioholic
I'm pretty sure I saw something a few years back about some guys making coffee from bat guano in Minneapolis. I'm not finding much on it now, so maybe it didn't become all that popular...
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
So I got the machine few days ago and started to make few cups by now..
Urgently need to get a tamper - machine didn't include one and thou tampering is optional, I still need some to be done to fit 15-16g of coffee into it

If I learned anything by now is placing less than 15-16g of coffee into shot will result in undrinkable disaster :)

I will keep on learning and practicing

My Cappuccinos and Lattes are big success with the lady of the house :D
 
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