Help me choose Espresso Machine

MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
It certainly is possible to make good cup of Joe with Chemex, but the issue of time comes at high cost. I need my coffee cup done in a couple minutes (total prep) not few hours :)
Never was a big fan of drip coffee in general - I need something with more oumth or as coffee geeks would say - higher extraction :)

Update:
I ordered Black Saeco Aroma. Will keep you posted as this will be my 1st real espresso machine :)
Many reviews mentioned good grinder is required for a good cup - I think I got that covered already.
The black Saeco Aroma was featured on Alton Browns food network show Good Eats. It's the machine he used for his Espresso episode.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The moka pot technique I use I found here:
Moka Pot – Stumptown Coffee Roasters
Thanks for that link. The various brewing techniques shown on that web site look useful. I gave my daughter a moka pot last year, and I'll have to send her that link.

Speaking of web sites… Last night, for fun, I was browsing through the Seattle Coffee Gear web site. It looks like they specialize in espresso machines and seem to know that subject well.

Just for fun, I watched two of their videos on coffee roasters. They were disappointing and full of wrong information. The roaster I use, a Nesco, was one of the 4 they featured in their video, and I am very familiar with its traits. Their video showed their profound inexperience, yet they made their "review pronouncements" as if they were experts. It seemed they only briefly read the manufacturers directions and used each roaster only one time. That video was a disservice to anyone looking to buy a roaster.

So it's useful to know what each web site and vendor specializes in.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
When I first saw this thread, I said to myself; Self, You need an Espresso maker.

Then I read through the thread and pooped my pants a little at the cost. I then ran to Starbucks's and got a coffee.

I am now finished with my quest for an Espresso maker...
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
When I first saw this thread, I said to myself; Self, You need an Espresso maker.

Then I read through the thread and pooped my pants a little at the cost. I then ran to Starbucks's and got a coffee.

I am now finished with my quest for an Espresso maker...
Espresso makers are only for serious caffeine freaks :rolleyes:.

For the price, you can buy an awful lot of extra large mochachinos and tip well each time :D.
Haven't seen Nesco design yet - this might be something I'd be able to add later one
Only seem drum machines before like this one:
Gene Cafe Roaster -Black - Drum Roasters - Coffee Roasters

That said I did hear about using popcorn machine for roasting coffee - seemed a bit unconventional :)
There are all kinds of DIY roasting methods from cast iron skillets to popcorn makers (plain or hot-rodded) to (my favorite for simplicity) the heat gun/dog bowl method.

Dedicated home roasters fall into two types: hot air or drum. All home hot air roasters do small amounts, about ¼ lb of green coffee, and most drum roasters do more, from ½ to 1 lb.

In general, it is said that hot air roasters do better at generating bright tasting coffee (high in fruit-like acid flavors), and the drum roasters do better at generating more body in the coffee and less of the bright fruit-like flavors.

All coffee roasting makes smoke. The more beans you roast, and the darker the roast level, the more smoke you make. The Nesco roaster has a catalytic converter that makes it the only (nearly) smoke-free home roaster. If you live in an apartment, or don't have a kitchen exhaust fan, that's something to remember.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I know Swerd would know this already, but for PD or whoever, a shot of espresso has less caffeine than a cup of coffee. OZ for OZ espresso is stronger, but no one drinks coffee by the OZ or 1.5 oz or whatever.

The Behmor that I use, and that apparently a bunch of AHers use, doesn't produce smoke, it has some "smoke suppression system".

I looked at the Gene Cafe, and dismissed it pretty quickly for reasons I cannot recall, but I do know that a 0.5 lb limit by itself would take it out of the running for me.

So the two main issues for me with using a popcorn maker were, yep, the very small batch (I don't want to roast more than once a week), and I don't like the idea of slowly melting plastic right above the beans I will be brewing. Because that plastic will melt according to the vids I've seen, also at SM's.

I do not encourage roasting at your place BSA, unless you can do it outdoors. This includes the non-smoking roasters, and the reason is because the smell is very strong. Some beans smell stronger, and of course the more you roast at a time, the stronger it will smell. When I roast outside, even with zero smoke, I make sure all windows are closed.

The Behmor is a drum roaster, and perhaps Swerd is right about it being inferior in making bright coffees, but the inventor had lighter to medium roasts in mind when designing it. I'm just about certain he says right in the manual that this isn't really designed for darker roasts, and as you know espresso roasts are darker, and go dark enough, you start getting closer to imminent fire.

If you do go for the Behmor (and I picked it over the Gene, even if I was willing to spend more), check out Roastmasters for a great deal: free shipping, no tax, 8 free lbs of single origin coffees, $299 in all. If you think of those 8lbs as roasted already, that could already and very easily be half the cost of the whole bundle. Oh and then there is a $10 coupon for future beans, which I've already redeemed. I only have 1 lb left of those, and since have also picked up Ethiopia Yrgacheffe Kochere, Ethiopia Sidamo Natural Guji Cooperative, Costa Rica La Minita Tarrazu, Tazmania Kilimanjaro Peaberry, and some Kona from my friend's dad's farm in HI.

I am drinking the best coffee I ever have in my life. French press only here. I always weigh beans before grind, and always time the brew. Though I do have a vacuum maker, it's rarely used now. I've had two espresso makers in the past. A really cheap one that was still working very well when I gifted it to a friend during a move, and a super automatic that kicked the bucket. Surely I'm partly to blame for less than ideal maintenance, but lever action is definitely the wtg, The Warrior speaks the truth. I just didn't want to spend that much.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
JM – I didn't know that you roast coffee, or if I did, I forgot about it. You have a Behmor, cool. Now we can high jack this espresso thread and talk about roasting normal coffee :D.
The Behmor that I use, and that apparently a bunch of AHers use, doesn't produce smoke, it has some "smoke suppression system".
I should look into that.

JM is right about the strong odor. Roasting coffee does not smell at all similar to brewed coffee. And even with smoke suppression systems or catalytic converters to minimize or eliminate the smoke, there will still be plenty of strong odor in your house.

Earlier last summer, I had thought the main bearing on my Nesco was giving out and I thought about getting a Behmor or Gene Cafe. I think I liked the Gene Cafe partly because I have a down-draft kitchen exhaust fan on the stove top, and its easy to hook up dryer vent hose to the Gene Cafe and vent everything.


Instead I got another Nesco because I didn't want to learn to roast on a different machine. So now I have a back up roaster. I roast twice a week, about 4¼ oz (120 g) each roast.

My favorite coffees have been from Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Kenya. What are yours? I also prefer medium roasts.

When spoke about the differences between hot air and drum roasters, I was speaking in very general terms. You can vary things a lot and get different results with home roasting, and that's a good part of the fun.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I didnt read through everyones posts so I dont know if someone mentioned this one , but my brother has this one {had to call him for the modell, not sure if it is cheaper somewhere else I just amazoned it} DeLonghi ESAM3300 Magnifica Super-Automatic Espresso/Coffee Machine: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining his only complaint is loud when it grinds but wtf its grinding beans....
I have an electra belle in my bar :D got it for half price at an estate sale, it was sitting on the counter never hooked up or plugged in , I had to run it a dran and a water feed as well as the wining 20a plug, but it is beautiful and works great, I don't even know if they make them anymore...
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I didnt read through everyones posts so I dont know if someone mentioned this one , but my brother has this one {had to call him for the modell, not sure if it is cheaper somewhere else I just amazoned it} DeLonghi ESAM3300 Magnifica Super-Automatic Espresso/Coffee Machine: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining his only complaint is loud when it grinds but wtf its grinding beans....
I have an electra belle in my bar :D got it for half price at an estate sale, it was sitting on the counter never hooked up or plugged in , I had to run it a dran and a water feed as well as the wining 20a plug, but it is beautiful and works great, I don't even know if they make them anymore...
I think my colleague has same machine - or a very similar DeLonghi super Automatic - He likes it a lot, but it does take a lot of counter space

Yes, They still make these - Elektra: Belle Epoque
but they cost arm and a leg :)
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Yes, They still make these - Elektra: Belle Epoque
but they cost arm and a leg :)
Thats the baby, they are stupid expensive, but I bought it at an estate sale in south western CT, the house that it was in sold at auction that day for 1,300,000, I honestly think the guy could have gotten it for $1.2 but he went from 1.1-1.3 I think just because he was sick of bidding!!!!
I bought that machine, a hutch, 4 queen ann chairs, and a BUNCH of mechanics tools for a little over $8000, sold the chairs at auction for $6000, and I could sell the Hutch for $5000 but my wife loves it, so it stays....

The machine my brother has, works very well, I know he paid around $900 for it!!! My machine works well to, but cleaning it is a chore sometimes, because you need to use some food grade nickel polish, and then food grade grease... But it makes a good cup {actually 2}, and everyone that sees it is amazed...

this is mine http://www.famasalescoffee.com/elektra-verticale-oc/
that price is insane there is one on ebay for much less http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elektra-Belle-Epoque-Chrome-120V-Espresso-Machine-RARE-/230887120839?pt=Small_Kitchen_Appliances_US&hash=item35c1f1dfc7
 
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J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
My favorite coffees have been from Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Kenya. What are yours? I also prefer medium roasts.
The hijack is on! :D We have very similar tastes, I think. The first bag I went through was Guatemala, because I remember at the last coffee specialty shop I used to go to, their Huehuetenango was one of my very favs, if not favorite. I don't know how different the Hue is from other Guatemalas, but anyway . . . well, let's just say quite a bit of that bag was sacrificed to the very steepest part of the learning curve. :p

Then of the recent first large purchase of beans-only, that I all listed, the Costa Rica was the second I chose to roast. La Minita and/or CRs were always some of my favs.

All of my roasts so far are pretty much somewhere between City at the lightest and Full City+ at the darkest. The FC+ is usually had on accident when I'm probably really trying for a Full City, but as I'm learning each bean for the first time, I keep coasting for a bit longer into 2C than I originally intended. This is one downside to the whole drum-with-cooldown machine roast compared to the popcorn machine, because I have to "learn" to cooldown about 10-15 secs before, but I can't know that without experience, whereas with the latter, we could just dump them out to cool pronto.

So anyway, my first batch of CR coasted a bit longer than I wanted. 2C is often a little tricky for me to discern, because I swear sometimes, depending on the particular bean/amount/heat, the first few 2C snaps I'm almost mistaking for the end of 1C. I know the sounds can be very different, but the end of 1C and beginning of 2C, well I dunno. Of course with other roasts I have a solid half minute or longer between the cracks. Anyway, the CR's 2C caught me a little off guard. Thankfully, I have a roasting log with detailed notes, so every batch should improve.

Now, two of the happiest surprises for me (and who knows how much is due to roasting technique, and how much is really because of the bean differences) were the Peru Fair Trade Organic, and the friend's Kona. The PFTO really had this complex spice, along with this wonderful and to me unmistakable dark chocolate element. (I would say the Brazil Yellow Bourbon Natural Faz Grota Funda also was chocolatey, but more a milk chocolate rather than dark, and without that complex spice.)

I was actually quite apprehensive of roasting the Kona. You see, to me, roasting on the highest heat profile is easiest, because at least that variable isn't one so to speak (the others ramp up heat with time). HI coffees are the softest in the world as I understand it, so I used the lowest of 5 heat profiles available to me. It represented by far the most gradual and slow procession into 1C as a result, and just as gradual to get out of it. But man oh man, this coffee was just spectacularly rich. Quite frankly, I preferred it to the most expensive beans I had yet bought at $7.93/lb, the Sidamo that I was drinking roughly at the same time (had both available as roasted at that moment).

Of the beans I haven't roasted yet, I am by far the most curious about the Kilimanjaro Peaberry, because they are so tiny! I remember LOVING this coffee when I last had it many years ago. Unfortunately, the next roast will probably be CR again, because I am visiting someone for a holiday event, and this will be one of a couple/few gifts I will have in tow. (CR is chosen for an undisclosed peculiar reason.)

Next purchase, I'll get some Kenya. ;) If you have a particular variety from anywhere to recommend, I'll go for it. I had to stick with RM as I had the coupon to redeem last time. Lemme know what specific level of roast you go for with it.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Too late to edit, but: the PFTO I believe was the La Florida variety, and not the Aprocassi.
 
Dan

Dan

Audioholic Chief
I know Swerd would know this already, but for PD or whoever, a shot of espresso has less caffeine than a cup of coffee. OZ for OZ espresso is stronger, but no one drinks coffee by the OZ or 1.5 oz or whatever.

The Behmor that I use, and that apparently a bunch of AHers use, doesn't produce smoke, it has some "smoke suppression system".


So the two main issues for me with using a popcorn maker were, yep, the very small batch (I don't want to roast more than once a week), and I don't like the idea of slowly melting plastic right above the beans I will be brewing. Because that plastic will melt according to the vids I've seen, also at SM's.

I do not encourage roasting at your place BSA, unless you can do it outdoors. This includes the non-smoking roasters, and the reason is because the smell is very strong. Some beans smell stronger, and of course the more you roast at a time, the stronger it will smell. When I roast outside, even with zero smoke, I make sure all windows are closed.

The Behmor is a drum roaster, and perhaps Swerd is right about it being inferior in making bright coffees, but the inventor had lighter to medium roasts in mind when designing it. I'm just about certain he says right in the manual that this isn't really designed for darker roasts, and as you know espresso roasts are darker, and go dark enough, you start getting closer to imminent fire.

If you do go for the Behmor (and I picked it over the Gene, even if I was willing to spend more), check out Roastmasters for a great deal: free shipping, no tax, 8 free lbs of single origin coffees, $299 in all. If you think of those 8lbs as roasted already, that could already and very easily be half the cost of the whole bundle. Oh and then there is a $10 coupon for future beans, which I've already redeemed. I only have 1 lb left of those, and since have also picked up Ethiopia Yrgacheffe Kochere, Ethiopia Sidamo Natural Guji Cooperative, Costa Rica La Minita Tarrazu, Tazmania Kilimanjaro Peaberry, and some Kona from my friend's dad's farm in HI.

I am drinking the best coffee I ever have in my life. French press only here. I always weigh beans before grind, and always time the brew. Though I do have a vacuum maker, it's rarely used now. I've had two espresso makers in the past. A really cheap one that was still working very well when I gifted it to a friend during a move, and a super automatic that kicked the bucket. Surely I'm partly to blame for less than ideal maintenance, but lever action is definitely the wtg, The Warrior speaks the truth. I just didn't want to spend that much.
I roast too. I used to use the Nesco but the thing has a plastic flywheel near the heating element that turns the auger. It melts after a while and you need to ship it to Minnesota for repair. They will not ship parts. It cost half as much as a new one to repair. So now use the iRoast but I think they have been discontinued. It roasts less evenly than the Nesco and is sensitive to the amount of coffee you roast (I keep it at 140 g per roast) but you get more control of the roast than the Nesco. It doesn't smell to bad, you can always use the kitchen exhaust fan. I use the clever coffee brewer which is similar to the Melita method. I think French press is great and I have one but it is more sensitive to the grind (it wants a uniform coarse grind) and my cheap blade grinder is not up to it.

I rarely do espresso and I use an old Moka pot. The fancy makers are too much for me. I have tried some espresso roasting with less success than coffee. I used to think espresso was always a dark roast. I ordered some espresso already roasted from Sweet Marias for a friend and was surpised to see how light the roast was (probably full city or FC+). It made excellent espresso. JM, try a lighter espresso roast and see if you like it since you seem to like lighter roasts for regular coffee.

Also for the uninitiated some myths about caffeine content and coffee. The darker the roast the less caffiene there is, since it is degraded during the roast. Thus the typical espresso roast has less caffeine dry gram for gram than regular coffee. However it is a much more concentrated brew so on a liquid ounce for ounce basis so that more than makes up for the difference. I warn friends who drink my light roasts that the caffeine content is quite high!

JM based on your likes you might like a Panamanian sweet marias often has, Carmen Estate. A lot like the Huehuetenangos, consistently good when it is in.
 
adk highlander

adk highlander

Sith Lord
I think my colleague has same machine - or a very similar DeLonghi super Automatic - He likes it a lot, but it does take a lot of counter space
That is the one I have. It is super loud when grinding. It is only an issue when I am up early and the family is still sleeping.

I have had mine now for over 6 years. It has just started to bleed a bit of water out of the wand when producing a cup so the seals are starting to go. I am hoping to squeeze out another year or two before I have to replace it.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
hijack continued… (Hey Dan, my brother in audio, coffee, and in real life :D)

Since I quit buying any roasted coffee last March and relied on roasting my own, I've also had similar learning curve problems. By June, I was pretty consistent. I had to learn how to listen for the 1st crack (1C), and that took two things. First I had to use a kitchen scale to weigh out the green coffee. Any other method of measuring the beans was too inconsistent. My Nesco roaster has a relatively puny 800 watt electrical heater and only two heat settings – ON and OFF. The rate at which it roasts beans varied greatly with the amount of beans I started with. With 113 grams (4 oz) everything worked well, but with 142 g (5 oz) the roast went too slowly. So I settled on 120 g (4¼ oz) and eliminated that variable. After that, I could learn when to expect 1C. That also took some practice, but the time into the roast when 1C started varied too much until I started using 120 g each time.

My roaster makes a fair amount of noise. Listening for 1C when you weren't quite sure what it sounded like or when it would happen was hard. Eventually I noticed that the roasting beans expanded by quite a lot in the minute or so before the onset of 1C. The Nesco roaster uses a glass cylinder to hold the beans, and it's easy to see the top of the bean bed rise by about an inch.

When you see that, it's crack time. With most coffees, when I hear the onset of 1C, I start a 2 minute timer, and when 2 minutes have passed, I hit the cool down button. I've gone as far as 2½ minutes but not further.

I suppose I should experiment to see just how long it takes to get into 2nd crack (2C), but I don't think I want to roast that dark. When I first started roasting, I was happy if I got a medium roast instead of light or dark! Then I learned how there about 4 levels of medium roast. I guess I get City or City+, but I'm not sure how much longer I'd have to roast to get Full City or FC+. The only way to learn is to make some smoke.

All this is academic because you use a different roaster, with its own quirks and traits that you had to learn. From pictures of the Behmor, I think seeing the beans expand may not be as easy. Getting good results from any roaster well requires that you get to know it.

The other roasting tip I learned is about line voltage. These electric heaters are voltage dependent. What is the AC voltage you have, and does it vary? I got an inexpensive Kill A Watt meter and found that my voltage doesn't vary enough to be a problem. It usually reads 116-118 volts while the roaster is heating. Good, that's one more variable eliminated.

You mentioned cooling the roasted beans. The Nesco roaster has a 5 minute cool down cycle, but the cool down is slow. After about 2½ minutes of cooling, I stop the machine and dump the beans into a colander and sit it on top of the exhaust fan grille on my stove top. That cools the beans to room temperature in less than 2 minutes. Others have rigged fans or vacuum cleaners to pull air through a colander to cool the hot beans.

I've had at least 4 different Guatemalan beans since last spring and all were at least very good or excellent. So I can't go wrong with Guatemalan coffee. There are several coffee growing provinces, Antiqua and Huehuetenango are two with the most plantations, but I think there are other regions. I've also had similar very good experience with Costa Rican coffees.

I've tried other beans from Columbia, El Salvador and Ethiopia that were not bad, but not outstanding. I am open to try them again. Coffee is like grapes and wine making, each variety is different and they can vary each season.

The Kenyan coffee was the biggest surprise for me. It has strong flavor described as cherry, blackberry, or red wine-like. I found I can easily taste that if I let the cup cool some. Your mileage may vary, but I loved it. I have had Kenyan Nyeri AA Gatombaya and a Nyeri AA Tegu that were excellent. I recently ordered a Kenyan Nyeri AB Gatombaya from Sweet Marias, but haven't roasted it yet. Apparently the letters refer to bean size and not taste quality, but the AB beans did cost a lot less than the AA beans. I also had coffee from Rwanda which I thought was highly Kenyan-like and cost much less. When I roast the East African coffee, I find they go into 1C about 1 or 2 minutes earlier than most of the Central American coffees.

In the past, I found coffees from Panama Carmen Estate and Mexico Chiapas were very good, but I haven't seen them this year at Sweet Marias.

I'll keep my eyes open for coffee from Peru. I once read that Hawaiian coffee can be good, but the supply is small and the Japanese are fond of it and bid the price up more than it's worth. Your Kona contact sounds great.

All I know about roasting and green coffee varieties has come from reading at the Sweet Marias (Oakland, CA) web site. The owner is very knowledgeable and very wordy (I think he drinks a lot of coffee), but I have gradually found that the info there is detailed and reliable. Their bean quality and freshness is excellent according to others who have tried other sources. I live in Maryland, but have always ordered green coffee from them. Shipping costs $9 for up to 20 lbs., so it pays to make larger orders. I'll look into Roastmasters. I see it's in Connecticut and shipping may be less.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I order my coffee from here. They have a large variety from most regions and sell whole bean and green as well as ground to your specification. I actually need to place an order today...

The Coffee Critic ~ Daily In House Roasting With One Of A Kind 12.5 Kilo Probat Roaster

I tried a few of them and my favorite is actually one of their own blends - Critic's choice. It comes in dark, light or a 50/50 blend of the two; I normally get dark.

I've been told a number of times that Ethiopian is some of the best, but I wasn't fond of the taste. There is actually an Ethiopian coffee house in the area, maybe I will have to try it from there.

The best coffee I've had is at a little Italian restaurant in North Beach in San Francisco that we go to, and damn it is delicious.
 
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A

armaraas

Full Audioholic
I'm a little late as usual, but I can sympathize with being a cheap bastard. I'm typically that way too. I see you already bought a machine. I was going to say if you're looking cheap, I bought one of these about 4-5 years ago to replace a $29 Mr Coffee Espresso machine that was as low as you could go-
Cuisinart EM-100 1000-Watt 15-Bar Espresso Maker, Stainless Steel: Amazon.com: Kitchen & Dining

That one is still serving me well, I used to just use on weekends and when I work from home 1 or 2 days a week. For the past 10 months I've been using it daily since our one year old started going to daycare. I've been lucky to have no problems with it, and works well for me. But I'm also not very picky on my coffee, I do not like espresso straight up, I need it in a mocha of some sort. I do not have a good grinder, so I buy beans pre-ground from Caribou or various Lavazza off of Amazon. But I might have to look into the Fairway beans and give those a try, especially since they will pregrind them (I have a cheap grinder as a gift, not a burr grinder).

I would say typically the biggest issue with the cheap machines is the milk frothing. It can be time consuming to get it hot enough. So if it seems like it's taking a while, well, that's not unusual.

I'm a cheap bastard and this blend so far is my favorite :) - very smooth and has a nice flavor
Fairway Life Begins at Ladder 40 - Fairway Market
I buy from local fairway store in BK, but they also sell it online ^^

Fairway also runs 10% Cyber Monday promo (only today)

my next best favorite is this place: Fresh Roasted Coffee Beans - Nicoletti Coffee
tiny and old (VERY italian :) ) mom and pop store - and they know their stuff
 
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