Help me build a system for our lake pier/dock!

Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
As the title says. We are fortunate enough to have a water front lake house and just had the pier/dock redone after Hurricane Matthew decided to remove a good portion of it last fall. As such, I want to go in and add an audio solution that is easy to use BUT can be locked out for NO usage (or a max volume set up) when we have renters. Here are some crude schematics and guiding principles:

Guiding Principles
- My parents are older and not very tech savvy. As such, they need to be able to easily connect cell phones or iPods to play music. Both have android devices. They also love the local beach music and oldies stations (and they do play jam after jam, so I can't even be mad!)
- This system will be somewhat "shielded" but also completely outdoors. See schematics to understand opportunities for tucking the speakers and other hardware to help with elements.
- We rent the house, and would either prefer that we have a way to lock the system out, not to be used by renters or buy a receiver that supports a maximum volume setting. We don't want to piss off the neighbors and allow the renters to have a house party (or destroy the system).
- A remote mounted receiver setup is an option (like having the receiver in the house and just doing a signal run and then distribution device out to the pier/dock) but you have to be able to control volume, input, or at least device/channel from the pier. This to me defeats the purpose of remote mounting the receiver.

Schematic:
White Lake House & Pier Diagram.jpg


So the above is a top down schematic of what we are working with. Nothing is to scale or even close to scale, it was more to depict listening areas and understand the different "wants" that the system could fill. So let me walk through the areas.

The teal areas are the desired listening zones, with the number behind them representing the importance in terms of the system we are discussing in this thread. If I can find a good solution for just the actual covered pier and sun area (designated as 1) then I am a happy camper.

The two area 1s are a covered area and an open area. This is the primary listening zone. The roof area is open right now through the rafters and has a plug or two for a power supply. I could easily drop a shelf/floor between the rafters to place my receiver or any distribution hardware up there. I would also look to tuck at least two speakers into this area, pointing down. Two small outdoor bookshelves would more than fill the space, it's probably 14x14 max. The sun area is another 10 or 12 foot deck off the end for lounging that would also easily be covered by maybe two small outdoor bookshelves. The right speaker setup under the covered area may be enough, but I'd rather have a second set firing out over the sun deck so we can keep volumes lower but still have good coverage.

The screened porch area (designated 2) currently has its own setup that is both old and a pain in the butt. I'd love to have it connected as my Zone 2 such that it could be playing a different source. This could also be the location for the entire system's receiver if need be, but again it is a screened porch and as such, has rain blown in all the time.

Area 3 is an open sun deck that will probably get less usage now that the "end" of the pier is completed and the Sun Area is available. there is no overhead coverage here so a speaker would either literally have to hang off the side and project back towards the area (not a bad idea) or be hidden under the deck and hope you can hear the sound well through the decking (which is composite the full length). Either solution would be a problem if the water level rose or a high wind storm caused some serious waves. Not a priority area at all.

Area 4 is generally able to be heard from the screened porch, but the way the deck and such runs you could easily run some wires under ground or back from the pier, run them up a tree, and attach a speaker or two to a tree. Not a terrible idea and I may look to do that just so we can keep the volume level overall lower between the screen porch and the overwater deck while still hearing the music.


So this is where I am at. Looking for any and all solutions as well as hardware recommendations. I'd love to be into this entire system for under $1,000 including 6 outdoor speakers and the receiver. I have a lot of speaker wire or have no problem buying long runs from monoprice or somewhere. Also not opposed to running the wire in PVC if necessary.

Thank you all for any and all help!
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm no expert, but it seems to be a good idea to install marine speakers due not just being outdoors, but near or on the water as well.
Here are some marine speakers, which I know nothing about directly, except I trust the brands enough to recommend:
You'd need at least one pair per area where you'd want to play music. Keep attention to impedance - they are all 4ohm speakers.
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_96633_JBL-MS6510.html
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_89034_MB-Quart-NK1-116.html
https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_105425_Infinity-622M.html

Thou probably cost prohibitive your budget - this system seems very interested, but I could imagine it would both very convenient to use and massive pain to install
 
Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
I don't think marine speakers are needed. The ones mounted over water are no different than a general exterior speaker in terms of the only water they may have to deal with is rain. Actually, for the set under the overhang, they'll likely deal with less water than the majority of outdoor speakers.

That distribution system looks interesting, but I don't need the 6 controls or zones, and 18W is not going to be enough juice to power any speakers loud enough to hear well. While I don't want the system to boom, when at the end of the pier, you have all the sounds of the water, boats and jetskis a bit out running wide open, and the two neighbors both have pier speaker systems.

I think I am going to order these for the end of the pier. The smaller ones to play over the sun area, and the larger to play in the covered area. They have great reviews everywhere including The Wirecutter recommending them as their best outdoor speaker. I can test them at home and I have (I hope, somewhere) and extra receiver I can test over 4th of July weekend to see if 1: they are the right application for the job and 2: if I want to buy more sets to cover the other mentioned areas, even if it is as a separate system. Plus for $150, if I don't use them at the lake, I can use them at the house.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-io525w-5-1-4-2-way-indoor-outdoor-speaker-pair-white--310-002
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-io655w-6-1-2-2-way-indoor-outdoor-speaker-pair-white--310-010

Still need solutions for the receiver and setup. BoredSysAdmin thanks for the thoughts and that 6 zone system. Going to see if I can find a similar 3 zone system.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
what 18w? In specs it says RMS Power @ 4 OHm 50w x 12. Considering Infinity for example has 92db sensitivity, 50w is nothing to snare about. - you'd get 102-105 db spl running full steam.
Or if you use these Parts express 8 ohm speakers you could run it bridged at 100w x 6 channels.
 
Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
Yea I must have saw the 18 zones and replaced the 25w RMS rating at 8ohms.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Back on subject, and free from the pointless opinion which doesn't add to anything...

This system screams Sonos to me.

Speakers being available in many shapes and sizes, I would go with any decent set of outdoor rated speakers which fit the location. You have tons of choices from a long list of manufacturers, which will do a good job.

But, the zones and control interface isn't going to be super easy really for a reliable setup.

So, I would go to Sonos.

Get a Sonos zone player with amp for each zone you want control to. They should sit, if at all possible, hard wired to the home network, then speaker wires should be run to all the locations which speakers are needed. Install the speakers in those locations. They are now a hard wired part of the system and if the speakers fail, the electronics inside remain safe and undamaged.

There will need to be good wireless access to the home network from outside, so if it is a distance, you will want to install a outdoor rated wireless access point so that people can get access to the Sonos system from wherever they happen to be. This will be plenty easy and versatile for use and allow for audio to be played directly from phones, or from the Sonos itself depending on how they want the music played back.

It's not super cheap, but it is well supported, versatile, and it is up to date with the current trends in audio playback.
 
Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
BMXTRIX, thanks for the reply and you hit on one of the most important things I forgot to mention: no wifi or home network. I know, right? But due to the infrequency with which we are down there, and the fact that our cells launch mobile hotspots (plus the neighbors let us use their wireless which is very nice of them), we don't have a home network.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
BMXTRIX, thanks for the reply and you hit on one of the most important things I forgot to mention: no wifi or home network. I know, right? But due to the infrequency with which we are down there, and the fact that our cells launch mobile hotspots (plus the neighbors let us use their wireless which is very nice of them), we don't have a home network.
You don't need a home network really, but I would still go this route. Wi-fi has greater range and higher reliability than Bluetooth devices. So, you can have one phone as a hotspot, if you want, or you can connect phones to the 'SONOS' network and play back and setup control through that. The network can actually link to a phone as the network connection if you want to play back directly through Sonos or do firmware updates, etc.
This really is a 'best' current solution IMO.
All other reliable options still really exist in the wi-fi world as there is nothing else that can reliably cover such an area. You need wi-fi. You don't need wi-fi with Internet access, you just need to put a router in place and a wireless access point or two to cover the outdoor area and you will be good to go.
 
Crackerballer

Crackerballer

Senior Audioholic
You don't need a home network really, but I would still go this route. Wi-fi has greater range and higher reliability than Bluetooth devices. So, you can have one phone as a hotspot, if you want, or you can connect phones to the 'SONOS' network and play back and setup control through that. The network can actually link to a phone as the network connection if you want to play back directly through Sonos or do firmware updates, etc.
This really is a 'best' current solution IMO.
All other reliable options still really exist in the wi-fi world as there is nothing else that can reliably cover such an area. You need wi-fi. You don't need wi-fi with Internet access, you just need to put a router in place and a wireless access point or two to cover the outdoor area and you will be good to go.
Jesus I didn't even think about just setting up the wireless network for the Sonos use without internet. Definitely going to do some digging and see what I can get to. Thanks a ton.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
No problem at all. Likewise, you can set the main wireless unit to point to a phone to provide an Internet connection if you want. That way the Sonos could still get online and stream from sites like Pandora if you wanted to do things that way. You really have an unlimited number of setup options, but certainly even if you went with a solution which is a bit less money, like Chromecast Audio, you still would want to setup that wireless network because it has the greatest range and reliability.
 
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