HELP: Legacy OR Monitor Audio 5.1 set-up? Huge $ decison that I do not want to regret

[addictaudio]

Hello to all. Long time lurker, but 1st time poster. So just joining now, and would please appreciate any and all input that you all can provide.

I really enjoy a nice midrange/mid-bass with clear crystal bright highs. I guess that in the audio world I favor brighter more forward speakers. Thus, ribbon tweeters will most likely satisfy my desire in this department. The speakers will be installed in a relatively small den (14 x10 with 8-9 feet ceiling). The listening position is around 7-feet from the center and towers. The surrounds will be mounted to the side of the couch. There is around 3-feet left behind most of the couch which leads to French doors that remain closed.

I will be using a Denon 4311 as the AVR. I also ordered an Emotiva XPA-5 to power the five speakers. The system is hooked up with an Oppo DBP 103 and Sony XBR 929 55-inch TV. The power conditioner is a Panamax M5300 PM. Speaker cables are Audioquest Type 2 and HDMI cables are Audioquest Cinnamon series. The bass is handled by an SVS PB12 +2 (one subwoofer box with two 12-inch woofers).

I like a lot of mid-bass/midrange that can blend in with the sub and not leave a gap in the frequency response. I like to listen at loud volumes with no distortion with very bright, detailed, and clear highs. The system will be used for around 50% music and 50% TV and movies, but I LOVE musical speakers, and really crave loud and clean bright high frequencies with a tight and punchy midrange. If not, the bass of the SVS dominates the arena.

Based on the above criteria, what would you select from the systems listed below:

1) Monitor Audio GX300 towers, GX350 center, RXFX surrounds

OR

2) Legacy Signature SE towers, Silverscreen center, and Deco as surrounds

I was able to audition both the Legacy Classic HD and Signature SE speakers, but only in a two channel set-up, as they did not have the surrounds or center channel speaker. In comparison with the MA GX300's, I felt that the Classic HD's did not measure up as well, especially in the upper higher end frequency. Now the Signature SE's compared more favorably, and they did not have the new Air Motion Tweeter, but still had the previous similar design. I still felt that the MA GX300 was a little more detailed and fuller/more dimensional sounding, especially in the upper frequency range, but the MA's were auditioned in another location, with different amplification, etc... I am more confused than ever now. I considered RBH, but with the inability to audition them, I have boiled my decision to the two aforementioned choices.

The MA GX's are toned identically to one another (same tweeter and high end frequency response for all in the same GX series). The Legacy Signature SE has the new dual air motion tweeter ribbon, the center Silverscreen has the upper section only of that tweeter, and the Deco surround has another version of the spiral ribbon tweeter. Hence the tower, center, and surrounds have different tweeters and high end frequency responses, but legacy assured me that they match in tone perfectly, despite the variations.

I need some input and assistance here. Some have told me that the MA's are better matched in tone and that the frequency response charts are superior. The Legacy's weigh a lot more and look great in Rosewood. Legacy uses thicker MDF, while the MA GX's also look great with the curved cabinets. The MA's also have internal silver cabling. The Legacy Signature SE tower does have Kimber Silver HF wire on the treble and Solen capacitors in the high frequency section, but the center and surround speakers does not. I like the idea that the Legacy's are made in America and custom made to order as well, versus the MA's coming from China. The Legacy's have are 4-ohm rated versus 8 ohms for the MA's, but the Legacy's appear to be more efficient as well. The Legacy towers are sealed as well, which is great for my space, and they can be placed near the wall as well with no ill effects.

So what gives? I want to make an educated decision and one that I will be satisfied and content for the next say 8 - 10 years, at least. Thank you.

 

[ridikas]

Neither.

You should be looking at the following:

Revel - Performa3 Series
SVS - Ultra Series
KEF - R Series
Dynaudio - DM, Excite, and Focus Series
PSB - Imagine, Synchrony Series

HSU Subwoofers - VTF Series
SVS Subwoofers

Thank me later...

 

[addictaudio]

May I ask why? I already have an SVS subwoofer.

 

[ridikas]

Because they measure better. Better measurements = better sound.

Google "legacy audio anechoic." Then do the same for all of the other brands. Look at the measurements from Stereophile, Sound Stage, and Home Theater. If you cannot find the exact model, look at other speakers from the same manufacturer, it will give you a very good idea.

 

[addictaudio]

I believe that legacy rates their speakers in room, plus or minus two decibels, but not anehoic. Not sure what MA uses. Is it fair to judge how all speakers in the line perform, based upon the measurement of one speaker?

 

[ridikas]

I think it's fair. I wouldn't worry about what each manufacturer lists as specs. Third party measurements are more honest...

 

[agarwalro]

I'd also recommend auditioning Ascend Sierra Towers and Salk Songtower (both with RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade).

 

[addictaudio]

I'd also recommend auditioning Ascend Sierra Towers and Salk Songtower (both with RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade).

would love to, but they have nowhere to audition them. I have been looking for months, and would like to make a decision.rather soon.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Alright, here is the only Legacy measurement I could find. It is their $17,000 Whisper.

Legacy Audio Whisper loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Fig.2 FR looks pretty bad.

I'm not very impressed with those measurements on a $17K speaker.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The MA Gold on HTM looked great, but not as great on Soundstage NRC, but still better than Legacy?

Monitor Audio Gold GX50 Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Home Theater

NRC Measurements: Monitor Audio Gold GX100 Loudspeakers

 

[Irvrobinson]

Alright, here is the only Legacy measurement I could find. It is their $17,000 Whisper.

Here's one on the Focus 20/20, which is an older model:

Stereophile Legacy Focus review

 

[zieglj01]

So what gives? I want to make an educated decision and one that I will be satisfied and content for the next say 8 - 10 years, at least. Thank you.

I see that you are still moving around and spinning in a circle.

With that type of money, I would not make an educated guess.
Also, it does not really matter what anyone else really thinks. >
Go with the speaker that sounds more enjoyable to you. You do
seem to like and enjoy the Monitor Audio sound - if you need to,
then go and audition Legacy and Monitor Audio again.

Now the GX series do not so-call really measure poor. The GX200
towers measure pretty good - compared to a lot of popular name
brands out there > and that is both on and off axis.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-monitor-audio-gold-gx-speaker-system?page=0,2

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here's one on the Focus 20/20, which is an older model:

Stereophile Legacy Focus review

I don't think Legacy measure very well compared to Revel, KEF, PSB, Paradigm, etc.

Legacy speakers may still sound great, but those measurements just aren't very flat IMO.

It seems the Monitor Audio measure flatter than Legacy IMO.

So I think measurement-wise, MA has the "advantage". But how the speakers sound is what really matters in the end.

I would not rush into buying. Yet.

 

[monkish54]

Hello to all. Long time lurker, but 1st time poster. So just joining now, and would please appreciate any and all input that you all can provide.

Welcome to audioholics!!

I really enjoy a nice midrange/mid-bass with clear crystal bright highs. I guess that in the audio world I favor brighter more forward speakers.

I believe you are using that term incorrectly. Don't be offended, many people use it that way, and there isn't an official definition, but most of the time forward & bright is used meaning the level of high frequencies is elevated compared to that of the mid/low frequencies. This allows speakers to stand out, but becomes irritating after a while of listening. This technique is used often in big box stores!

Thus, ribbon tweeters will most likely satisfy my desire in this department.

Some ribbons are excellent. They have a very low mass enabling them to reproduce highs with quite a bit of detail. That said, there are PLENTY of good dome tweeters out there. Don't screw yourself out of a fine pair of loudspeakers because you want a specific diaphragm mass!

I will be using a Denon 4311 as the AVR.

Great choice!

I also ordered an Emotiva XPA-5 to power the five speakers.

With a 4311 :O Why?

The system is hooked up with an Oppo DBP 103

Great choice!

Speaker cables are Audioquest Type 2 and HDMI cables are Audioquest Cinnamon series.

You won't find many cable fans here. For the most part, our forum stays true to the main site in that it revolves around science.

I like to listen at loud volumes with no distortion.

Noted.

Based on the above criteria, what would you select from the systems listed below:

1) Monitor Audio GX300 towers, GX350 center, RXFX surrounds

OR

2) Legacy Signature SE towers, Silverscreen center, and Deco as surrounds

I would go with a different option.

Let me ask you, before I recommend anything. Are you looking for accurate and neutral speakers, or do you want something that has a sound you enjoy?

The MA's also have internal silver cabling. The Legacy Signature SE tower does have Kimber Silver HF wire on the treble and Solen capacitors in the high frequency section, but the center and surround speakers does not.

Don't play this spec sheet game. It isn't going to tell you anything about the quality of the speaker...only the quality of the marketing department.

Kimber cable and Solen Caps mean zero in terms of ultimate performance.

I like the idea that the Legacy's are made in America and custom made to order as well, versus the MA's coming from China.

Me too. Although, I don't like Legacy.

So what gives? I want to make an educated decision and one that I will be satisfied and content for the next say 8 - 10 years, at least. Thank you.

Then you have come to the right place. If you want something that will last you a long time, and will make you very happy, my first advice to you is to drop your ribbon requirement. I'll probably end up recommending something with a RAAL anyway, but there are plenty of good domes!

 

[addictaudio]

Yes, still spinning in circles, as this is a tough and costly choice. I have only been able to audition each brand in two channel mode. I really wanted to audition as a five channel setup. Besides, they were auditioned with different amplification, setting, locations, etc... I have no more time to travel for auditions, as the locations are Over 200 miles each way. The Signature SE has won numerous awards recently as well.

 

[zieglj01]

Besides, they were auditioned with different amplification, setting, locations, etc... I have no more time to travel for auditions, as the locations are Over 200 miles each way. The Signature SE has won numerous awards recently as well.

To me a speaker has a certain sound signature/tonal character,
regardless of amps.

I listened to $10,000 and $20,000 McIntosh speakers with their
real expensive amps, and their speakers were still overall weak.
Some $1300 Monitor Audio RX Silver speakers, were an overall
better performer with a Pioneer Elite receiver, compared to those
tonal colored, McIntosh speakers.

Unless you are an overall head-banger, speakers that are good
with music - can also be good with movies. > There are a lot of
musical tracks and scores in movies.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I don't think Legacy measure very well compared to Revel, KEF, PSB, Paradigm, etc.

Me either. Their chief designer makes no bones about the fact that he tunes in-room by ear, which in my experience almost always produces that classic saddle-shaped response curve with accentuated highs and lows. Frankly, that's how B&Ws sound to me too. Speakers like this do demo well, because they sound a little more exciting than speakers that are flat. However, in my experience a super-flat frequency response is not enough. The Dunlavy speakers measured incredibly well, but while they sounded more neutral than Legacys at the time (10 years ago) the quality of the sound (especially in the highs) left something to be desired. Measurements are important, but focusing just on measurements has not been enough for me.

 

[monkish54]

Measurements are important, but focusing just on measurements has not been enough for me.

I agree with everything you said in the original post. However, if I may read between the lines here, you don't mean measurements are not enough, but that we don't do enough measurements!

On-axis, off-axis (imaging + soundstage), klippel diaphragm testing (detail), non linear distortion, etc. If we measured more things, we can learn more things!

Also, every loudspeaker company should post pictures, and detailed analysis of their drivers. If you're not proud enough to show them, I probably don't want them!

SVS understands where it's at!

Exclusive Ultra-13 Driver – Brutal Output and Subtle Nuance
An SVS-exclusive design, the Ultra-13 driver utilizes the highest quality components, custom-tooled parts, and innovative technologies to deliver an unparalleled combination of extreme output, ultra-low distortion, and exceptional linearity.

Expensive Finite Element Analysis (FEA)-optimized underhung motor technology for exceptionally low distortion.
Multi-layer flat-wound voice coil for ultra-high power handling.
Dual linear-roll spiders and stitched parabolic surround for extreme excursion capability.
Ultra-light and rigid Rohacell composite cone provides excellent transient response.

 

[unemployed]

I have MA Gold Reference (GR) for fronts & center, and silver bookshelves for the surrounds. Love them. The GRs are two series before the GXs. They are especially wonderful for music.

 

[addictaudio]

Welcome to audioholics!!

Thank you sir.[/COLOR]

I believe you are using that term incorrectly. Don't be offended, many people use it that way, and there isn't an official definition, but most of the time forward & bright is used meaning the level of high frequencies is elevated compared to that of the mid/low frequencies. This allows speakers to stand out, but becomes irritating after a while of listening. This technique is used often in big box stores!

No offense taken. I tend to favor maybe brighter speakers, when compared to blander more muffled type of sound charcteristics.
Some ribbons are excellent. They have a very low mass enabling them to reproduce highs with quite a bit of detail. That said, there are PLENTY of good dome tweeters out there. Don't screw yourself out of a fine pair of loudspeakers because you want a specific diaphragm mass!

True. I was told that ribbons produce more of the sound that I am looking for.

Great choice!



With a 4311 :O Why?

I got it for assurance, and to be sure that there is no clipping or distortion at high volumes. Also, if I get 4-ohm speakers, Denon told me that they do not recommend driving more than two channels with 4-ohm rated speakers.
Great choice!



You won't find many cable fans here. For the most part, our forum stays true to the main site in that it revolves around science.
I learned that AFTER the fact

Noted.



I would go with a different option.

Let me ask you, before I recommend anything. Are you looking for accurate and neutral speakers, or do you want something that has a sound you enjoy?
This is a good question, and maybe one that I cannot even answer at this time. There are literally 1000's of speaker brands out there, and quite frankly, I will not be able to audion even 1% of them. I wish that I could have made it to this last RMFS.


Don't play this spec sheet game. It isn't going to tell you anything about the quality of the speaker...only the quality of the marketing department.

If we are not playing the spec. sheet game, then why all of the fuss about measurements?
Kimber cable and Solen Caps mean zero in terms of ultimate performance.




Me too. Although, I don't like Legacy.
Please share your thoughts on this one either here or via PM.

Then you have come to the right place. If you want something that will last you a long time, and will make you very happy, my first advice to you is to drop your ribbon requirement. I'll probably end up recommending something with a RAAL anyway, but there are plenty of good domes!

Great, but please recommend something that I can audition prior to making a purchase. Unfortunately, Salk is out and Ascend as well.