Help increasing sound in theatre

[petronej]

Hi All,

New member here. We could really use some help determining what to upgrade to increase sound. The current setup sounds good but isn't room filling as I'd hoped.

We built a theatre and gym for the kids in the basement. The house isn't very large but we dedicated this space to those two purposes so that the kids have somewhere to go with friends. My son and I built it ourselves. The theatre is setup with 9.1 surround. The room is roughly 35x30. The theatre is on 1/2 and the gym is on the other 1/2. I'd like to enhance the sound and develop bigger more room filling sound. I'm not 100% certain but I think that the current receiver is having trouble driving the Logan speakers. We're using a Pioneer SC 57 to drive all of the speakers. We have Martin Logan 12's in front, a Focal Chorus V as the center, and monoprice in wall speakers as front high and surround front and rear speakers. The sub is a martin Logan grotto. I was looking at Amp's that would allow me to pull the front 3 speakers off to drive them separately. I'm not sure that this will accomplish what we're trying to accomplish. I welcome your expert opinion. If so, also wondering what AMP would do the trick. Currently I've been looking at Mcintosh, Rotel, and Emotiva.

 

[ImcLoud]

The motion 12 towers aren't super hard to drive, I think they are over 90db sens. It is most likely a setup issue with your avr, I would set your fronts to small and get a better subwoofer {or a few more grottos}...

If you can return that grotto I would, sell it or maybe throw it in a nice little 2.1 stereo system or pc system...

For a designated theater I would be looking here VTF-3 MK4 DualDrive Package 2 is nice but one will work....

By setting your fronts to small that will cross them around 80hz, since the lower range consumes the most power from your amplifier it will free up the pioneers power and give you more output in the voice and high ranges, a more capable sub with some strong output will fill the room with sound... Ill bet if you ran the room correction in your avr it picked up on the weak sub and strong front end, so your fronts are being tasked with the bulk of your sound needs...

Start with the sub or subs {more is better, 2 subs have a lot more than double the output, and duals will smooth out the room response....} If the vtf3s are out of budget look into a vtf2 or a couple of them, you wont be sorry..

Also miss matching centers and fronts is a HT "no no", you may want a nice strong center to match your towers... maybe a motion 30 or at the smallest the 8 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Logan-Motion-30-Center-Channel-Speaker-Black-/131249418642?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1e8f133192

 

[markw]

First off, that's a big honkin' room.

Second, those ML speakers aren't made for ultimate sound output to begin with, no matter how many watts you pump into them. They're grerat in a smaller room at moderate/loud levels but they are totally out of their league in that auditorium.

Neither are those wall speakers, plus they are probably too far away from the seating area to have any good effect.

As for that Focal speaker, there's a a bunch of speakers in the "V" series but I'd say it's stretched tio it's limits to.

In any case, simply throwing more watts into speakers won't solve your problem. For a room that size, I'd be looking at more efficient speakers to begin with.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome is in order


What Markw said +
Your room has about 8000 cu ft of volume.
Is there a partition in that room? May need to consider it with door/s between the two halves.

How is the seating arranged with with that gym in there?

If you are not willing to partition the room, you need to look at very sensitive speakers, probably close to the 100 dB spl per 1 watt at 1 meter rating.
And, if you want the bass to fill it ar a good level, you need at least 2 if not 4 subs of good output.

Unfortunately these questions should have come during the design phase, not after $$$ has been spent.

 

[petronej]

IMC, Mark, & MTR,

Thank you for the responses and for your wisdom. That's very helpful. For additional background we purchased the SC57 and the logan speakers prior to building the theatre. Had we known that we were going to build it we would have certqainly made different purchases. They were being used in another room for music and surround. We're trying to leverage what we have for now. So, we've moved them to the theatre. We will upgrade slowly.

QQ - As we consider upgrading the center to match the ML Motion 12's I have the following questions. I've looked at the Logan center speakers. The Motion 8 vs motion 30's sound pretty close. There's a bit more debth at BBY when we went from one to the other. Price is close. I did hear the Mottif too. It deffinatley sounded better. But, I was surprised it wasn't a massive jump up. Deff more room filling and I did love it. I'd say it sounded 150% better. I havent' heard the stage. The Mottif and stage are a significant jump in price. I might be able to get a good deal on purchasing one of these. The quesion is - Would the Mottif or Stage be unmatched given they are electromotion speakers from the Motion 12's that we own? Should I stick with the Motion series in ML. Or, if able should I stretch to the higher series with the center if I'm able to get one at a price that works. Also, I wlecome thoughts on the Mottif vs the Stage if anyone has any?

Thank you in advance.

Warmest Regards,

Joe

 

[mtrycrafts]

I would think that if you are not partitioning your space, you should try it in your space any speaker you are considering, if possible, or a full money back if not satisfied.

Hard to say how speakers will sound in such a huge space without a test run.

 

[ImcLoud]

as far as the motion series center goes, look at the tweeter, if the tweeter is identical to that of the motions then most likely it would be OK, but IMO the 300 is your best bet, the 8 may also be good but if prices are similar go with the 30... You need more sub power, that grotto is going to be shaed by something like the vtf2, 3 or 15 belive me...

 

[markw]

I very much like the detail and delicacy of Motion series, but it's not really going to add to your loudness problem, if that's what you meant by "increasing" the sound.

 

[theJman]

I agree with the others; that room is simply way too large for the speakers you have. If your ceilings are 8' then there's 8400ft^3 to fill, which is cavernous. To accomplish something like that you're looking more along the lines of speakers such as 210RT's up front and a Triple 8HT center.

 

[GranteedEV]

I know this is going to sound like a stupid suggestion, but...

...why not turn the volume up?

 

[zieglj01]

I welcome your expert opinion. If so, also wondering what AMP would do the trick. Currently I've been looking at Mcintosh, Rotel, and Emotiva.

I would skip the McIntosh amps - they are over-priced

I would upgrade your subs - with a couple of new ones

Also, I would look at Acoustical portable partitions on wheels - for when you do more serious listening
Room Dividers, Portable Partitions, and more | PortablePartitions.com

 

[cpp]

I know this is going to sound like a stupid suggestion, but...

...why not turn the volume up?

Now you know that's not scientific, but it's sure is logical

 

[GranteedEV]

Now you know that's not scientific, but it's sure is logical

Well, I mean, when I think "room-filling", I can't help but think OP is a bit disillusioned into thinking you can have a wide, tall, deep soundstage at low volumes. A lot of that effect really does come from high SPLs.