Help choosing mid/low end receiver

[schiesz]

I am currently trying to decide between a lot of different choices in the moderate-low end receiver market. My budget is close to $500. My current system is an Onkyo Ht-S570, which includes a HT-R320 receiver. This receiver actually does a great job for me right now, but my system will be moving to a location that requires the receiver to take in all my audio and video sources and output all video in component or HDMI (one or the other, not both). I currently have a HD satellite and upverting DVD, and possibly a Wii as the video sources. I would consider just a video switching unit, but it seems like they cost the same or more than the full receivers I am looking at.

I am having a hard time determining what receivers actually convert the video to component or HMDI (most seem to convert to component, but HDMI is mostly passthough in this pricepoint).

The ones I think fit the bill so far are:

Pioneer VSX1017
Onkyo TX-SR605
HK AVR247

I am pretty sure all of these will let me input component video from each source and output component to the TV. What I cannot determine is if I can input HDMI and output to component, or input component and output to HDMI. I'm not sure if I really NEED this capability right now, since all of my current devices can use component video cables, but it would be nice to know.

So, for my budget and requirements, are these receivers good choices? Are there others I should consider? Can I meet my requirements with a cheaper receiver?

Thanks in advance for the help,

schiesz

 

[Adam]

schiesz, welcome to the forum!

Just a quick answer to one question. I haven't seen any receivers that will take an HMDI signal and downconvert it and output it through component video. However, there are definitely receivers that will upconvert component to HDMI.

I've got to run at the moment, hence the quick response. You can check out owners manuals for receivers at most of the manufacturer websites (Onkyo for sure), and those manuals will help you know just what capabilities each receiver will have in terms of video conversion and processing.

Adam

 

[rnatalli]

I'm not sure about upconverting an downcoverting, but I can say that Yamaha, Onkyo, H/K, Denon, and Pioneer will all have comparable receivers at the $500 range. Which ever one has the features you want and the best price, go with it.

 

[schiesz]

I haven't seen any receivers that will take an HMDI signal and downconvert it and output it through component video. However, there are definitely receivers that will upconvert component to HDMI.

This is pretty much what I have been able to figure out through reading manuals, reviews, and posts here. It seems that in order to do this (HDMI to component) the receiver needs to actually decode the HMDI and re-encode it to send the component. I believe that is why most of the OSD's for these receivers only work with the component out, because otherwise they would need to decode the HDMI signal, insert their display, then re-encode it to HDMI to send.

Anyway, I am content for now to do all video switching in component video. My TV will not be better than 720p, and neither are any of my sources, so component video should work fine.

Thanks for the welcome and the replies so far. Anyone else have an opinion on what receiver fits my requirements?

 

[Seth=L]

The Pioneer VSX-1017 does not upconvert from any video input to HDMI, only switching ability. It also offers no audio decoding via HDMI or scaling features.

The Onkyo TX-SR605 offers the latest HDMI features, but unfortunately you can't utilize them with the TVs and HD disc spinners. HDMI 1.3 ensures that in the future you can get deep color and bitstream HD audio via HDMI. It has a scaler and upconverter to HDMI, so there can be one simple connection to the TV.

The H/K AVR-247 can do basically anything the Onkyo TX-SR605 can do at present, even though it does not have HDMI 1.3 cert. The H/K can take a decoded signal from an HD player up to 7.1 lossless LPCM (basically just changes where the HD audio process takes place. In this case it occurs in the HD player instead of the receiver, it really makes no difference.). The H/K has preouts, a feature lacking on the Onkyo, which gives you to option to connect a seperate power amplifier for more power.

Regardless of specifications each receiver is likely to have similar power ratings. The Harman Kardon is the heaviest of each unit, so I would expect it to have a larger power transformer and also expect it to perform better at higher levels of output.

 

[schiesz]

Thanks for the information Seth=L,

I really do like the H/K receiver (AVR-247) and would love to try one out, but I have been somewhat concerned over their power ratings. It is good to hear someone with a similar opinion regarding their actual power. If I decide I need to get the H/K, I will need to convince myself once again that I really do need the processing capabilities of the 247 instead of just he AVR-147.

Also, if anyone else like the H/K AVR-247, does anyone have any experience with buying them re-furb off the H/K website?

schiesz

 

[Seth=L]

Thanks for the information Seth=L,

I really do like the H/K receiver (AVR-247) and would love to try one out, but I have been somewhat concerned over their power ratings. It is good to hear someone with a similar opinion regarding their actual power. If I decide I need to get the H/K, I will need to convince myself once again that I really do need the processing capabilities of the 247 instead of just he AVR-147.

Also, if anyone else like the H/K AVR-247, does anyone have any experience with buying them re-furb off the H/K website?

schiesz

I don't have personal experiance buying from Harman Direct refurb, but I have heard nothing but good things from people that have.

Personally, I would bet the H/K has more power than the other models listed, and probably better capability to handle lower impedance loads. The Pioneer is probably about equal in power, and the difference would likely be neglegible among all three from most any listening conditions. Basically you just pick the one that has the features and design you are looking for.

 

[schiesz]

Broke down and bought a HK 347 from Harman on ebay. They sell their refurb stuff for amazing prices on there, if you have a little patience. I had pretty much decided on the 247, but the 347 wasn't too much more. Should arrive tomorrow.

Thanks for the help.

schiesz

 

[Seth=L]

Cool, have fun with the new receiver when it arrives.

 

[schiesz]

Been using the 347 for a few weeks now and like it a lot. I have run into a setback; it will not fit in my cabinet. I probably don't want it closed up in there anyway because of the heat that it produces, so its a good thing I was planning on controlling it remotely.

I think its about to get a new home in the basement right below my current cabinet.

Man this is a heavy receiver. I thought my old Onkyo was heavy.

schiesz

 

[Seth=L]

Man this is a heavy receiver. I thought my old Onkyo was heavy.

Yeah, mid-line H/Ks are pretty heavy. What is it?, like 30 some pounds?

 

[schiesz]

Specs say 30.6 lbs, and this thing feels like its every bit of that then some. It wouldn't be such a big deal if I hadn't moved a week after I got it, and now i'm having to relocate it to the basement. I am GLAD it is heavy, since I keep reading about how all the good amps are very heavy, but I will be happy once this thing has found its home and I can stop picking it up and moving it around.

schiesz

 

[PENG]

I don't have personal experiance buying from Harman Direct refurb, but I have heard nothing but good things from people that have.

Personally, I would bet the H/K has more power than the other models listed, and probably better capability to handle lower impedance loads. The Pioneer is probably about equal in power, and the difference would likely be neglegible among all three from most any listening conditions. Basically you just pick the one that has the features and design you are looking for.

Hey Seth, you may want to do a little more research before betting. HK tends to state their output power conservatively, but BS aside, the 110WX7 Pioneer will still have more output power than the 50WX7 HK. The Pioneer also weighs more (10%) and its power consumption, at 450W vs HK's maximum 540W is another indication. HK is among a few that specify maximum power consumption, most others seem to provide a nominal number that is not maximum (2 ch at rated output+X% of the remaining channels). The maximum consumption for the Pioneer could be much higher than 540W. HT mag tested a VSX-816 at 5X79.3W into 8 ohms and 2X155.7W into 4 ohms all at 0.1% THD. The VSX-1017 should do much better. Conversely, last time I checked lab measurements for HK's mid level (330 if I remember correctly), the numbers weren't that great and the protective circuit tripped during the 4 ohm tests.

Again, we all know HK rates their output conservatively/trufully, but on a Watts/$ basis they don't do too well. I am not favoring any of the 3 the OP was considering, but would have suggested that he does more research in order to make an informed decision. HK does make nice sounding receivers. The 347 is no doubt a good choice if his main goal is sound quality.

 

[Seth=L]

Hey Seth, you may want to do a little more research before betting. HK tends to state their output power conservatively, but BS aside, the 110WX7 Pioneer will still have more output power than the 50WX7 HK. The Pioneer also weighs more (10%) and its power consumption, at 450W vs HK's maximum 540W is another indication. HK is among a few that specify maximum power consumption, most others seem to provide a nominal number that is not maximum (2 ch at rated output+X% of the remaining channels). The maximum consumption for the Pioneer could be much higher than 540W. HT mag tested a VSX-816 at 5X79.3W into 8 ohms and 2X155.7W into 4 ohms all at 0.1% THD. The VSX-1017 should do much better. Conversely, last time I checked lab measurements for HK's mid level (330 if I remember correctly), the numbers weren't that great and the protective circuit tripped during the 4 ohm tests.

Again, we all know HK rates their output conservatively/trufully, but on a Watts/$ basis they don't do too well. I am not favoring any of the 3 the OP was considering, but would have suggested that he does more research in order to make an informed decision. HK does make nice sounding receivers. The 347 is no doubt a good choice if his main goal is sound quality.

When they did the 4 ohm test was there a switch on it for 4 ohms? When activated it limits the output (far from dangerous for the receiver) and will shut down early.

The weight difference is 3 pounds, neglegible IMO.

The H/K upscales and does audio over HDMI, the Pioneer does not.

I would still have picked the H/K in light of this new information.

 

[PENG]

I was only trying to provide some facts and data that are available on the web. Anyway, a quick search found this:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/322004163324.pdf
As usual the power output numbers were impressive as they exceeded what was specified, but definitely not even as good as the Pioneer VSX-815.

Regardless, I actually agree with you, and I too would have picked the 347 over the 1017. I don't typically pay too much attention to the weight neither unless you are talking 20 lbs vs 35 lbs. To me sound quality is paramount. As for power output, most people know that doubling the power only gains you 3 dB. I would take one of those 25WX2 Class A Luxman over a 200WX2 EMO, Outlaw etc. any day. That said, it may sound contradictory but I would take a 300WX2 Bryston (already did), or Parasound Halo, over the more expensive 25WX2 Class A LUX.

 

[schiesz]

I am not favoring any of the 3 the OP was considering, but would have suggested that he does more research in order to make an informed decision. HK does make nice sounding receivers. The 347 is no doubt a good choice if his main goal is sound quality.

Although it doesn't matter so much now that i've made my decision, what would you have considered in the sub $500 price range? Besides the 3 originally mentioned, I also considered the Yamaha RX-V661. I really didn't look any farther than those 4. I did drool over a RX-V861, but it was quite a bit out of my range.

I really have wanted to try out a HK receiver for years, so this was a good time for me to do just that.

If it were your choice, for under $500, what would you have favored?

schiesz

 

[Seth=L]

I was only trying to provide some facts and data that are available on the web. Anyway, a quick search found this:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/322004163324.pdf
As usual the power output numbers were impressive as they exceeded what was specified, but definitely not even as good as the Pioneer VSX-815.

Regardless, I actually agree with you, and I too would have picked the 347 over the 1017. I don't typically pay too much attention to the weight neither unless you are talking 20 lbs vs 35 lbs. To me sound quality is paramount. As for power output, most people know that doubling the power only gains you 3 dB. I would take one of those 25WX2 Class A Luxman over a 200WX2 EMO, Outlaw etc. any day. That said, it may sound contradictory but I would take a 300WX2 Bryston (already did), or Parasound Halo, over the more expensive 25WX2 Class A LUX.

That new Class A Luxman is super tight.

 

[PENG]

That new Class A Luxman is super tight.

Did you read the review? According to the reviewer, that 20W is not a problem unless you have low sensitivity speakers in a large room.

 

[PENG]

I really have wanted to try out a HK receiver for years, so this was a good time for me to do just that.

If it were your choice, for under $500, what would you have favored?

schiesz

In that case you should be happy now. For me, being in Canada, I will not buy any HK models because fo the much higher prices. I prefer the picture quality of component video so I would not waste my money on the 661's HDMI. For under $500, my choice would have been something like a RX-V659 (around C$350). I could not (edit:just found it right here at Audioholics:http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v659/rx-v659-measurements-analysis) find any lab measurements for the 659 but the RX-V657 turned out some impressive numbers, better than the RX-V661 and much better than the HKAVR330 in 4 ohm ratings.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/863/yamaha-rx-v657-digital-surround-receiver-page3.html

If I was in the U.S., my choice would have been between the RX-V659 (or 657 if I can find one) and the HKAVR247 or 235 if I could still find a new one. I like HK a lot but I am not sure if they are as reliable as Yamaha and Denon. Anyway, you got it now, enjoy that well known HK sound quality.