Help an old guy set up system based on headphones.

[dgvoyles]

I'm 65 and only comfortable with traditional music systems: amp-cd player-speakers but my current situation won't allow it. My listening area is huge: 30ft x20ft with 20ft cathedral ceilings; I can't afford a large enough system for this. My thought is to go with Headphones, Headphone amp, MP3 player, etc. Any suggestions on brands and models? Also what else would I need? This is only for home use and I want excellent sound quality. My music choices are: classical chamber music (demonstration or near demonstration sources) small group jazz, and female vocals. Everything I read says I need my downloaded music in Lossless/Flac for good quality but I don't even understand this completely.
I appreciate any help you can offer. I almost forgot, I'd like to keep this under $1000. if possible.
Thanks

 

[agarwalro]

Source: Dune HD Smart D1
DAC/Headphone amp: Audioengine D1 or NuForce uDAC-2
Headphones: Sennheiser HD600 (more accurate) or HiFiMan HE500 (ever so slightly bass heavy)

 

[dgvoyles]

Thanks for the reply. Your suggestions range from $859.-$1209. which is around my goals. If I choose the HD600 (are these comfortable for long periods) i would be fine. For my music choices is there any difference between the D1 and U-DAC2? I must admit I don't really understand what the Smart D1 does; is this for using the computer as a source rather than a Ipod? Sorry I'm so ignorant but I am older.
I appreciate your reply.

 

[sholling]

First your taste is good enough to suggest ripping your music to FLAC (lossless) rather than MP3. Depending on the bitrate of the MP3 the sound quality varies from AM radio (48bit) to near CD quality (320bit) while a lossless format like FLAC is the same quality as the source it's made from and for CD rips that's full CD quality. Either way the better the quality the larger the file will be but if you decide to go with MP3s I would not go below 256bit MP3s which is what Amazon.com sells.

What I don't know is how you plan to access the music. I store my music on a central server and access it over my network via media players (my TVs acting as a display for the players) but not everyone has a home network or a server. Some plug an external USB drive into the media player, some use a notebook computer with an external DAC as the player, while others just use a desktop computer with an audiophile sound card.

For headphones I'm a fan of the Sennheiser HD600 unless you're a bass head but they aren't easy to drive and you'll want a fairly robust source. I'm not up on external DACs and have no idea how strong their internal amps are.

Finally I'd plan a way to back up your music because ripping a few hundred albums takes forever and you don't want to have to do it twice and not all download services allow you to download twice without paying twice.

 

[dgvoyles]

Thanks. I'm not planning to rip current cd.s. I thought I would download my music in lossless to somewhere (I don't know where), the end result is I want the music on a device (MP3 player of some sort) hooked up (I guess) to the headphone amp. Does this make sense. I said I don't understand this. I guess I could also just plug in a real cd player as source into headphone source. This would allow me to listen to my present cd,s and would avoid me stressing myself with downloading/transferring/and everything else that makes me feel stupid.
Any comment. Thanks again.

 

[sholling]

You need to think through your plans before even thinking about reaching for the credit cards. For example almost any media player will need a display (usually a TV) so you can see to pick out music. A CD or DVD player connected to a DAC and a headphone AMP (or a device that does both well) is probably a simpler solution. Just installing an audiophile soundcard in your existing desktop PC (assuming Windows) and investing in a comfy office chair isn't a bad way to go because it probably has a CD/DVD player. There are lots of ways to skin this cat but it needs to be thought through.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In my opinion all you need a good dac/headphone amp and great headphones. I highly recommend AudioEngine D1 and AKG K 702 headphones:
Amazon.com: AKG K702 Headphones: Electronics
Audioengine D1 - Audioengineusa.com
For later look for coupon to get the price to $150.

 

[dgvoyles]

Thanks and you're right I do need to think it through. What I want is to sit in my chair with headphones on and listen to classical chamber music, small group jazz and female vocalists with chamber size backing. I would certainly be more comfortable with a CD player as my source, this is what I know. My music collection is going to be built from scratch because most of my current hundreds of cd'S are ROCK. I have looked at the Musichall cd15.2 and Cambridge Azur 351C and think both would be appropriate for the music I intend to listen too, both have pretty good reviews. If I add a headphone dac/amp under $200. and headphones like, or comparable to, the HD600 wouldn't it be a good sounding system. Most all the CD's are going to be demonstration, or near, quality.You mention adding a DAC but wouldn,t the DAC in the headphone amp suffice.
I appreciate everyone's input and would like final input on what I have suggested here. Be honest, if this would be crap let me know. Unfortunately $1000-1200. is my max. Thanks again.

 

[hizzaah]

So you plan on building your music library from scratch? Does this mean you could be purchasing/downloading the music onto a computer? Would you have a problem doing that?

 

[markw]

Your first goal is to find a headphone that suits you. I, too, tend to recommend the Sennheisers as well. I may be partial since i own them but I also own Grado. I prefer te Grado Sound for rock and more "dynamic" music but for classical and acoustic music, Sennheiser has the edge in my book. Of course, having both doesn't really force me to choose. I can go with the mood. And, unlike a marriage, you're not locked into having just one.

Amplification is another story. Actually, I use my ancient Marantz 223o receiver for my headphone listening but you may prefer something more modern. I such case, these Schiit headphone amps and DAC products are getting great write-ups. And, they can fit into your price range.

As for sources, I tend to still prefer CD's and SACD's. I like owning the physical media and ripping it to my computer and, from there, to my various MP3 players as needed.

And, as for the sound quality, It's all in the recording, not the media. But, SACD may be a bit over-rated in my book. A well recorded CD sounds stunning.

Besides, CD's and SACD's are still the standard to which digital media is held. And, good CD/SACD players aren't hard, or expensive, to find.

So, keep on reading and getting ideas as to what direction you want to go. We'll be here to help clarify some of the hype and misinformation that floods the Internet.

 

[dgvoyles]

I would prefer to stick with cd's if I can get the quality sound I want. Thanks

 

[dgvoyles]

Thanks a lot. Now I can narrow the 3 items (CD player/DAC-AMP/Headphones to best suit my sound requirements and music source within my price range. Now I think I'm getting there. If anyone has heard the Musichall 15.2 and Cambridge Azur 351C please advise your input, please consider my music preferences of classic chamber music/small group jazz/female vocalists with small ensemble backing. All this feedback is very helpful. This is a great forum.

 

[KEW]

My music collection is going to be built from scratch

If you're building it from scratch, the task of ripping CDs as you acquire them is much less burdensome than if you have a large collection to rip (assuming you will be acquiring the CD's at a casual rate).
IMHO, you should definitely rip them to a hard drive - it is so much easier to access the songs you want, delete the ones you might not like from your active play list, etc. Computer are so good at file management.
Just figure out what your setup before you start buying CDs so you can rip as they arrive!

 

[markw]

Remember, Cd players come with their own built-in DAC and they generally don't suck. You would use the analog feed from the CD te headphone amp if you want to listen directly to the CD.

And, when you want to rip a Cd to your hard drive, use the CD/DVD reader/burner in the computer.

Depending on your sound card, you may not even need a DAC on the computer's output.

 

[dgvoyles]

My last reply didn't register. Thanks a lot. This is the kind of system that feels comfortable to me:CD player/DAC-headphone amp combo/headphones. Please offer advice on any experience with the Musichall cd15.2 and Cambridge Azur 351c. Please keep in mind my music choices in the earlier thread. My CD,s will be demonstration or near demonstration quality. This is a great forum and I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

[bikemig]

This is going to hit near the top of your budget but I'd go for the marantz sa8004 cd player. You can pick up a refurbished one with a manufacturer's warranty for $780 from accessories4less: Marantz SA8004 Super Audio CD Player and USB DAC | Accessories4less. You'll get a headphone amp, a CD (and SACD) player, and it has a dac (with both usb and digital inputs) that you can use to connect your computer to. For headphones, I'm partial to the Beyerdynamic DT 880. You can use any old laptop you have lying around (or you can pick up a cheap one) and use it as a source (both with ripped music and with Pandora, MOG, Spotify, etc.) with the SA8004 acting as the dac.

 

[agarwalro]

Thanks a lot. Now I can narrow the 3 items (CD player/DAC-AMP/Headphones to best suit my sound requirements and music source within my price range. Now I think I'm getting there. If anyone has heard the Musichall 15.2 and Cambridge Azur 351C please advise your input, please consider my music preferences of classic chamber music/small group jazz/female vocalists with small ensemble backing. All this feedback is very helpful. This is a great forum.

You need to be worried about the CD player quality only if you end up using the analog out to a headphone amp. In this case, you want the most accurate player. Even budget CD-DVD players are now capable of accurate audio and it is not necessary to buy an uber expensive dedicated CD player.

If you use an external DAC or DAC-headphone amp combo like the Audioengine or NuForce I linked earlier, you will not need to change your current player if it has Coax or Optical outs. All functioning CD-DVD players output digital audio equally well and are indistinguishable in this regard.

 

[dgvoyles]

Thanks. I assume I would be using the CD player analog out to the headphone amp. The Cambridge Azur has a Wolfson WM8728 DAC which is supposed to be very good, so I'm leaning to the Azur 351C. Cambridge products are supposed to be created with acoustic music in mind. I've been researching headphone amps and the Schiit Asgard sounds very inviting. Its a Class A amp and is supposed to be very neutral sounding. It runs pretty hot which I'm not too fond of but you always have to take the bad with the good. Still researching headphones but Sennhessen are sounding good. Still not sure if I need open or closed over the ear or on the ear. Good music is very complicated. Everyone has been very gracious with your input. I appreciate it.

 

[anamorphic96]

Thanks. I assume I would be using the CD player analog out to the headphone amp. The Cambridge Azur has a Wolfson WM8728 DAC which is supposed to be very good, so I'm leaning to the Azur 351C. Cambridge products are supposed to be created with acoustic music in mind. I've been researching headphone amps and the Schiit Asgard sounds very inviting. Its a Class A amp and is supposed to be very neutral sounding. It runs pretty hot which I'm not too fond of but you always have to take the bad with the good. Still researching headphones but Sennhessen are sounding good. Still not sure if I need open or closed over the ear or on the ear. Good music is very complicated. Everyone has been very gracious with your input. I appreciate it.

Your looking real good with the Cambridge cd player. Not to expensive and well built. The Marantz CD players might be worth looking at as well.

The Schiit Audio headphone amps get really good press and seem to be perfect for your situation. I might be checking out there budget units myself.

Headphones - This is where you should spend the most money and time figuring out what you like. Amazon has a good return policy minus shipping which is usually 5-10 bucks to ship back headphones. Might want to ear mark a few bucks and try out a bunch of different models and spend some time getting use to each models sound signature. Been doing this myself lately and it's very helpful. Judging by your choice in music you might want to look at open back models. The Sennheiser suggestion above is an excellent one. However I would take a serious look at Grado, and Audio Technica. Both companies make great open back models.



Hope this helps.

 

[agarwalro]

If you are spending $500 for a player, it might as well be a universal disc player rather than Redbook CD player only. The Denon 3910 is a robust universal disc player. The analog audio side is considered reference quality (there a many many reviews online) and it can usually be found for as little as $300.

Regarding the Schiit Audio headphone amps, make sure you get the newer models with soft shut down. The earlier versions were blowing headphone drivers due to a DC spike when powering off. Details here.