HDMI pass through when powered off?

[Chubasco]

And a few more newb questions below too.

Just bought a Pioneer 1020 & already a bit disappointed for the reasons below. Now considering returning it and buying something else...any recommendations appreciated.

Note that I'm an audio file newb, but technically (computer) savvy.

Pioneer 1020 disappointments:
1. Can't use any hdmi components while the receiver is off. This over complicates simple TV watching for the wife. Ability to use hdmi components (cable & PS3) with sound while receiver is off would be great.

2. Setting to have audio come only from TV is buried a bit too deep in menu (for wife), also no setting to play audio from BOTH tv & speakers.

3. Volume difference between commercials and content way to drastic requiring constant manual adjustment. Not as noticeable before using receiver.


MY SETUP/ preferences:
- Vandersteen 1c stereo speakers & V2W sub woofer
- Sharp Aquos LCD (1 hdmi)
- xbox360 hdmi
- ps3 hdmi
- Wii component
- hi def cable dvr hdmi
- streaming media from pc & Mac
- iPhone/iPod compatibility
- Bluetooth port or compatibility

Budget for receiver is less than $2,500

Again, appreciate any advice since I'm dealing with a return/refund timer on the Pioneer 1020. Thanks in advance.

 

[TLS Guy]

And a few more newb questions below too.

Just bought a Pioneer 1020 & already a bit disappointed for the reasons below. Now considering returning it and buying something else...any recommendations appreciated.

Note that I'm an audio file newb, but technically (computer) savvy.

Pioneer 1020 disappointments:
1. Can't use any hdmi components while the receiver is off. This over complicates simple TV watching for the wife. Ability to use hdmi components (cable & PS3) with sound while receiver is off would be great.

2. Setting to have audio come only from TV is buried a bit too deep in menu (for wife), also no setting to play audio from BOTH tv & speakers.

3. Volume difference between commercials and content way to drastic requiring constant manual adjustment. Not as noticeable before using receiver.


MY SETUP/ preferences:
- Vandersteen 1c stereo speakers & V2W sub woofer
- Sharp Aquos LCD (1 hdmi)
- xbox360 hdmi
- ps3 hdmi
- Wii component
- hi def cable dvr hdmi
- streaming media from pc & Mac
- iPhone/iPod compatibility
- Bluetooth port or compatibility

Budget for receiver is less than $2,500

Again, appreciate any advice since I'm dealing with a return/refund timer on the Pioneer 1020. Thanks in advance.

They all work that way. It is the way HDMI is. HDMI is an active connection, with constant handshakes to make sure you are not a pirate. When using HDMI all devices such as a receiver or pre/pro have to be on.

The audio has to be set to come from the receivers amps or TV, and it is never a quick change.

The audio level discrepancy is something that will be addressed by legislation, the receiver has no part in it.

You can spend what you want, but the result will be the same.

If your wife wants to watch TV without the receiver, you will have to make a component connection from your peripherals to the TV and use the input selector on the TV.

Quite honestly it is easier to have her use the receiver. My TV does not even have speakers.

If your wife does not like the receiver sound, then buy her a TV to use someplace else.

We never use the TV speakers on out other system either as voice clarity is much better on the system speakers.

I understand voice clarity and speech is not natural on a lot of Hi-Fi speakers, but that is another issue, and relates to the huge quantity of poor speakers on the market. A speaker with poor speech quality is a poor speaker period. Although good speech clarity in of itself does not define a good speaker.

 

[sholling]

There may be more but I've only heard of one receiver that is supposed to pass HDMI when off. That was the brand new Onkyo TX-SR608. If true I would expect to see it as a feature across the entire Onkyo line later this year.

From an Audioholics's First Look:

HDMI Thru is a new feature for Onkyo receivers which allows content to pass through the receiver to the display even when the receiver is "off" (in standby mode). Many an Audioholic will shake their heads in confusion at this "feature" but take our word for it - there are those that occasionally don't want to use their surround speakers and sub. We know, baffling. We're not sure where this people live but we're thinking in the 1970's.

The feature that you're looking for to tame commercials is something like Audyssey Dynamic Volume (not to be confused with other Audyssey features) which can be found in many Onkyos and I assume Denons.

The little 608 should do most of what you're looking for but it does not do Bluetooth or streaming media, and the iPod dock is an add-on. I haven't laid hands on the 608 yet but I do have an older 606 and it's a pretty decent inexpensive receiver. If you must have streaming media then you'll have to wait for the upcoming replacement for the 807. If I had to guess I'd say it should be out in time for Christmas. You can also add a streaming media device or use the PS3 for some types of media.

You may also want to invest in a Harmony remote and the optional PS3 module to make controlling the system a complete no-brainer. Touch a single button and the TV and the receiver and cable box come on and tune to the correct inputs. Touch another and it turns off the cable box and turns on the PS3 and switches the receiver inputs. I like the Harmony One but the Harmony 700 is a lot cheaper.

 

[TLS Guy]

There may be more but I've only heard of one receiver that is supposed to pass HDMI when off. That was the brand new Onkyo TX-SR608. If true I would expect to see it as a feature across the entire Onkyo line later this year.

From an Audioholics's First Look:

So the HDMI boards in those receivers must be fully on in standby mode. I don't think I would want that.

 

[tom67]

Hdmi

Yep, just one more reason not to route your video signal through a receiver...of course the best reason is that it is just one more electronic link filled with cheap little wires and stamped circuits that could degrade the signal....If you must have HD audio, then I guess you have to do it, but no one can explain what that really is and why it is better than other sources....if your source (say a cable box) has only one HDMI output, they may make a splitter that would give you and extra line out to the tv, but then the wife would have to change input source on the tv...

 

[njedpx3]

There is a similiar thread you might want to check

You might want to check with "eyecantcode"> he had a very ,very similar situation. Here is his thread discussing the 1020:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65174

However, as others have said if it passes HDMI signal in a "repeater mode" in stand by then you are still running full power, i.e. premature failure to most components.

Good Luck,

Forest Man

 

[highfigh]

Yep, just one more reason not to route your video signal through a receiver...of course the best reason is that it is just one more electronic link filled with cheap little wires and stamped circuits that could degrade the signal....If you must have HD audio, then I guess you have to do it, but no one can explain what that really is and why it is better than other sources....if your source (say a cable box) has only one HDMI output, they may make a splitter that would give you and extra line out to the tv, but then the wife would have to change input source on the tv...

"Degrade the digital signal? It's not as if stripping off a few zeros and ones when it passes through will make the picture a little fuzzy or degrade the colors. How can you say "cheap little wires and stamped circuits" and then talk about getting a splitter?

Using the receiver for all of the video switching is a matter of convenience and simplifying the wiring/hookup. If all sources go to the receiver and one cable goes to the TV, it's not only a smaller/neater bundle but it's also a helluva lot cheaper than running long HDMI cables to the TV from all of the sources. Imagine having a DVD, BD, PS3, Cable/Sat receiver and any other device that needs to be connected to the TV via HDMI. Now, come up with a simple way to do that and get the audio to the receiver. If you want to watch everything in HD on the TV but use only the TV's speakers, that's a poor way to attempt to get the whole experience.

 

[tom67]

You are right about the splitter....never a good idea. You are also right about eliminating a few cables, but most people generally have their electronics clustered so no big deal. But, I cant tell you how many posts I've read the past two years on various forums concerning degraded picture complaints passing the video through a receiver. Do me a favor before you forget....get a flashlight and peer into the top grill of your amp or receiver....those multi-colored 32 guage wires are about the same as those in a $10 transistor radio in the 60s...The point is common sense would dictate that the fewer elctronic links you subject a video signal to, the better. But, I guess the real point that started this thread is that this poor man's wife can't hear her tv when when it is connected to all this marvelous technology....

 

[sholling]

So the HDMI boards in those receivers must be fully on in standby mode. I don't think I would want that.

I would. I think it's a great idea for certain situations. For example I'd use it to allow me to use my bedroom TV's sleep timer.

Yep, just one more reason not to route your video signal through a receiver...of course the best reason is that it is just one more electronic link filled with cheap little wires and stamped circuits that could degrade the signal...

Maybe in the 1970s but as Highfi said no zeros or ones are being stripped off. It's a non-issue in the 21st century. However using p-poor video processing in the receiver could be an issue - but that's not what we are talking about here.

I was going to suggest the splitter and monoprice.com carries a selection, but the OP wants Dynamic Volume and swapping out the Pioneer for a 2011 model Onkyo will solve his problems and add great features without adding another device. A Harmony remote would be icing on the cake.

OP,

I don't recall seeing a center in your setup. If you don't have one then I'd look at adding a timbre matched center to bring out the dialog.

 

[highfigh]

You are right about the splitter....never a good idea. You are also right about eliminating a few cables, but most people generally have their electronics clustered so no big deal. But, I cant tell you how many posts I've read the past two years on various forums concerning degraded picture complaints passing the video through a receiver. Do me a favor before you forget....get a flashlight and peer into the top grill of your amp or receiver....those multi-colored 32 guage wires are about the same as those in a $10 transistor radio in the 60s...The point is common sense would dictate that the fewer elctronic links you subject a video signal to, the better. But, I guess the real point that started this thread is that this poor man's wife can't hear her tv when when it is connected to all this marvelous technology....

The size of the conductors is irrelevant when the signal is going a short distance, especially when it's carrying digital signal. Also, a lot of those wires are buss cables, just like the ones inside a computer. They keep those to a minimum when needed but if it doesn't affect performance, they use them. The only time heavy cables matter is when high current is carried- there is absolutely no benefit to that inside a receiver or integrated amp if data or low level signals are being conducted.

The problem with people who have a hard time controlling a system is that they don't/can't think in terms of what needs to happen when the signal leaves the source and I don't mean in technical terms, just in terms of the signal path. Some can, some can't. Those who can't, need the system to be more simple. Others don't have a problem pushing several buttons to make the system do what they need and want. Some like to have all of the buttons available to them, even though they'll probably never use most of them.

The hard part is finding out how someone thinks, in order to come up with a workable setup for a remote control. What seems simple to one person is completely undecipherable to another.

 

[Chubasco]

Thank you everyone for the responses & info thus far. I'll research a bit more on the Onkyo and Dennon offerings.

Also, two more questions:

1. Is upgrade-able firmware an important feature? If yes, then which brands/models offer it? I'm assuming it has some value given the convergence of functionality (networking, Bluetooth, codecs, OSD, folder/file browsing, iDevices, etc).

2. I'll investigate the Harmony remote solution, but I already have an iPad, iPhone, & iPod touch. I've seen apps that (with a peripheral) offer programmable remote control functionality. Anyone have experience with these relative to a Harmony?

 

[sholling]

1. Is upgrade-able firmware an important feature? If yes, then which brands/models offer it? I'm assuming it has some value given the convergence of functionality (networking, Bluetooth, codecs, OSD, folder/file browsing, iDevices, etc).

I've never done a firmware update on a receiver and I assume that mostly it's going to be bug fixes. As far as networking goes it either has the network and/or bluetooth hardware or it doesn't. That's not something that firmware will change. On the other hand a codec might be upgradeable. To be honest I have no desire to play compressed music off an iPod through thousands of dollars worth of electronics and speakers. Instead I've ripped all of my CDs to the lossless FLAC format (you could use Apple-lossless) and store them for playback on my PC, and through family room and bedroom AV systems. If you have kids you can also store DVDs for playback with risking the disc. I use a Western Digital TV Live for this but you could also use an Asus O!Play or a Bright-View BV500HD. All three solutions run about $100.

As a side note I run those lassless FLAC files through a batch conversion program (dBPoweramp Reverence) and make high quality MP3s for my portable. That way I have full CD quality lossless for home and smaller version for the road.

2. I'll investigate the Harmony remote solution, but I already have an iPad, iPhone, & iPod touch. I've seen apps that (with a peripheral) offer programmable remote control functionality. Anyone have experience with these relative to a Harmony?

There is a world of difference. Remote control via iPhone (etc.) is a gimmick or a techie's toy and not in the same league. With a Harmony you plug it into a computer and select your devices from a huge list. Then select the activities you want and the Harmony software will generate the macros by itself and load them on the remote. It's all point and click. Now you can put all of your other remotes in a box someplace and the Harmony will do it all so simply that you'll be shocked that you ever got by without one.

 

[m2rogers]

I have read the other replies and disagree with some of the comments. I have an Onkyo TX-SR608 and it does not pass the signal through when the receiver is off so whoever came up with the comment that it does is wrong. Next, I have a setup that does not require me to go through the receiver to watch TV with TV sound and only requires a very simple hookup. My master bedroom is on the other side of the wall from the family room and with only TV sound on it allows one person to go to bed and not be bothered by loud sound while the other person can still watch TV. No splitter is involved but I do have an HD "A/B switch" on the bedroom TV setup and using it doesn't degrade the picture or the sound one bit as far as anybody can tell. My main family room setup is HDMI from the satellite box to the TV on Input 1 and then an optical digital audio cable from the satellite box to the 608 receiver so if I want to listen to satellite TV sound through the receiver I can. All other components are hooked up through the receiver by HDMI cables and then one HDMI cable from the receiver to Input 2 on the TV. That way my wife only has to change the TV to Input 2 and push the button marked "DVD" on the receiver to watch a DVD movie and then change it back to Input 1 to watch TV. Believe me when I tell you that if my wife has learned to do this yours definitely can! Good luck.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have read the other replies and disagree with some of the comments. I have an Onkyo TX-SR608 and it does not pass the signal through when the receiver is off so whoever came up with the comment that it does is wrong. Next, I have a setup that does not require me to go through the receiver to watch TV with TV sound and only requires a very simple hookup. My master bedroom is on the other side of the wall from the family room and with only TV sound on it allows one person to go to bed and not be bothered by loud sound while the other person can still watch TV. No splitter is involved but I do have an HD "A/B switch" on the bedroom TV setup and using it doesn't degrade the picture or the sound one bit as far as anybody can tell. My main family room setup is HDMI from the satellite box to the TV on Input 1 and then an optical digital audio cable from the satellite box to the 608 receiver so if I want to listen to satellite TV sound through the receiver I can. All other components are hooked up through the receiver by HDMI cables and then one HDMI cable from the receiver to Input 2 on the TV. That way my wife only has to change the TV to Input 2 and push the button marked "DVD" on the receiver to watch a DVD movie and then change it back to Input 1 to watch TV. Believe me when I tell you that if my wife has learned to do this yours definitely can! Good luck.

I must say, I thought it a little far fetched that a device would pass HDMI in standby. There is so much processing involved in transmitting HDMI, the receiver will to all and purposes be on permanently to do that. That would not be a good idea.

 

[AVRat]

I haven't kept up with this feature on newer receivers, but I do know most of the Yamaha #65 series does have a "Last source on HDMI standby pass-through."

 

[fourg63]

I haven't kept up with this feature on newer receivers, but I do know most of the Yamaha #65 series does have a "Last source on HDMI standby pass-through."

My Onkyo TX-SR607 does as well. It is called RIHD in the options so it must be enabled for it to work. For example, if your last selected source in the receiver was "HDMI 1", whatever you have connected to your HDMI 1 input will still send the signal through the receiver to the TV when the receiver is powered off (Standby). Just an FYI though, the receiver will draw 35w of power when this option is enabled as it has to power the HDMI board for it to work. I'm not familiar with the newer 608 but I'm assuming it also has the RIHD option.