Fairly new to high end audio, would like some input and advice

jcslone

jcslone

Audiophyte
Hey everyone, before I get into what it is I'm looking for lemme give ya'll a little background on what I have/know first...

My current set up is a pair of Focal Chorus 605V bookshelf speakers, picked 'em up for $500 back in 2009 and I've been exceptionally happy with them for the most part. They're hooked up to a Yamaha RX-V465 5.1 deck that to my pleasant surprise has Burr/Brown DACs in it (only $300 too!). Power is supplied by a Monster HTS-1600. I'd like to think I have a fairly discerning ear despite minor hearing loss from my job (<5% left ear 5-7% right ear, all above human speech range).

I've listened to quite a few high end products (B&W 800 Diamonds, Martin Logan electrostatics, Definitive, Vienna Acoustics, and Mirage to name a few). My dad also has a 5.1 KEF system (the egg looking stuff!) that's pretty nice. I listen to a fairly wide range of music to include metal, pop, dubsteb, lots of classical, piano, and jazz.

My only gripe with my 605's is the lack of low end bass, that and the retarded definition and clarity I've heard from other speakers has made me desirous of something more as of late.

Here's what I am looking for...a 5.1 system (the fam and I game and watch movies in addition to listen to music) that will give a nice movie/game experience and a sensuous stereo musical experience. (Am I asking for too much??). I recently spec'd out a Chorus 800v series system with NAD electronics and it was in the neighborhood of $6K...not happening anytime soon on a military income lol!

Would I be better off adding onto my current system or starting from scratch? I'm partial to Focal right now obviously but I'm willing to try new stuff.

TIA!

Josh
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
Hey Josh, welcome to audioholics..

What would your budget be and how big is the room its going it? Do you need an avr too?

As for the "best for your money" sound system that would go in most rooms and play both music and movies well, IMO, I would go...

if you need a receiver ---- Pioneer SC-1222-K 7.2-Channel Network Ready AV Receiver - Newegg.com
sub ---VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer
and then for the front 3 I would go Ascend Sierra 1's for all 3. That would cost around $1300 but they have some bstocks rite now for a little less... Sierra-1 Bamboo Loudspeaker

If you have a larger room and more budget go up to a vtf3 sub for $750...

That system will amaze you, then just move your bookshelfs to the surround position, if you dont want to do that, you can grab pretty much anything for surround duty, $99 and up, there are tons of things out there...
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I can understand the lack of bass, but the Focal 605V also has retarded definition and clarity?

If that's the case, you might want to just try other brands.

Have you auditioned the 826V?
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
acu I thought he was being sarcastic? the lower end focals are just that, but they sound good, there is better for the money {msrp} but when they are on sale they make a nice option...
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
If you need more bass you buy a subwoofer. I recommend the SVS, HSU, or Funk Audio depending on your budget. You'll need all your budget for a great sub so I'd put of the fronts for now.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
If you need more bass you buy a subwoofer. I recommend the SVS, HSU, or Funk Audio depending on your budget. You'll need all your budget for a great sub so I'd put of the fronts for now.
I did not see where he specified a budget, but I agree with this advice for any budget up to at least $1000 when deep bass is the main issue with the current sound. It is cheaper in the long run if one buys something that is good enough that one will never feel the need to upgrade, so it is wise to save up and get good gear piece by piece as needed. A subwoofer will never go out of date (unlike a surround receiver, as they are always dreaming up new features that people "must have"), nor will the other speakers. So it is a really good idea to put serious money into these parts of the system, both because they can be permanent, and also because speakers affect the sound more than any other equipment one has.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I did not see where he specified a budget, but I agree with this advice for any budget up to at least $1000 when deep bass is the main issue with the current sound. It is cheaper in the long run if one buys something that is good enough that one will never feel the need to upgrade, so it is wise to save up and get good gear piece by piece as needed. A subwoofer will never go out of date (unlike a surround receiver, as they are always dreaming up new features that people "must have"), nor will the other speakers. So it is a really good idea to put serious money into these parts of the system, both because they can be permanent, and also because speakers affect the sound more than any other equipment one has.
I wonder what it's like to never feel the need to upgrade. :D My sub can make the room shake like an earthquake and yet I still want to upgrade.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
I wonder what it's like to never feel the need to upgrade. :D My sub can make the room shake like an earthquake and yet I still want to upgrade.
It feels great. I have a pair of old SVS CS-Ultra subwoofers, and I never plan on upgrading. The fact that there are better subwoofers available now does not bother me. If that kind of thing bothers one, one will always be bothered, because it is always possible to get better (something massive and custom made could always be done better than anything done yet, so this will always be true). I also have no plans on ever upgrading my home theater speakers (Aurum Cantus Leisure 2SE [original U.S. version]), and will likely be able to use my current receiver until it dies, though it is always possible that I will decide I need some new feature there, so I am not holding my breath. But with my speakers, any improvement would be small and very expensive, so it simply isn't worth it to me. I would have to come into a vast fortune to want to upgrade (and even then I might not bother), or they would have to come up with some new breakthrough in speaker technology to tempt me. I do, however, want to upgrade to a bigger TV, and that is not as nice a feeling as being satisfied with what one has.

For my main 2 channel stereo, I use Apogee Stage speakers, and I feel no need of upgrading them ever. They are great speakers, though they are a bother to set up properly. In fact I expect to never upgrade any part of my main 2 channel stereo unless some part fails. That feels nice.

It also saves quite a bit of money if one can manage to save up and buy something that one will find satisfying over time. Constantly upgrading usually means constantly spending money, and if one skips just one of the steps in the upgrade process, one can save quite a lot of money. (By that I mean, if one buys item A, replaces it with item B, which is then replaced with item C, usually, one will save a significant amount of money if one never buys B, and simply skips that one and goes straight from A to C.) If one skips them all and just goes to the top of what one will ever want first, one saves the most money. I did not do that, but I have tried very hard to get gear that will be satisfying in the long run, and it does save quite a lot of money when one keeps gear for a long time rather than constantly buying new gear to replace what one is not quite satisfied with. To put this another way, one can have better gear for the same total amount of money spent if one saves up and just buys what is ultimately satisfying first, rather than wasting money on intermediate steps in a constant upgrade process.

The exception to the idea that constantly upgrading costs money is when one buys used gear that one finds at a good price that is low enough that one can resell it for as much or more than one pays, in which case it just takes time and bother to do many steps of upgrades. But with buying new gear, typically one is not going to be able to sell it for what one pays, and so it will involve a loss of money, money that could have been put into better gear instead of into constantly upgrading.

I think if a lot of people were to calculate all that they have spent over the years on all of their upgrading (they would need accurate records for this, and would also subtract from the total cost the various amounts they got reselling their old gear), they may be shocked at how much they have spent, and be surprised by how little they have to show for it in their current gear. Or to say the same thing in other words (since people online often misunderstand things), the total amount of money that they spent on audio gear is likely to be far more than the retail value of their current collection of gear. Which means, if they had just saved up for good stuff in the first place, they could have purchased better gear than they currently have for the same amount of money they have spent. Or they could have what they currently have, and have money left over.
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
The Yamaha RX-V465 could be limiting those speakers. That generation of low end Yamaha's was never that good. To make matters worse the RX-V465 does not even have discrete amplifier outputs. Probably produces very little current and would struggle at high volume driving two speakers full range.

This in my experiences can make a difference. Not a huge one. But you could benefit from a much better receiver with a much stronger amp section or dedicated integrated amp. This would get those Focals to open up and sound fuller with a good dose of that clarity your looking for. Possibly going with the NAD electronics you where looking at and holding of on speakers to see what kind of improvement a good amp can make. If you don't find it improves things then upgrade the speakers.

My advice is somewhat counter to most peoples beliefs about amplifiers here. But in this case a second from the bottom Yamaha receiver with IC amp is not a good match for the really nice Focals you have. I also noticed Focal does not seem to make a Chorus 605V. However there is a 705V. If this is your speaker then it has a minimum impedance of 3 ohms according to it's product sheet. This makes Yamaha woefully inadequate to drive those speakers properly.
 
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jcslone

jcslone

Audiophyte
Sorry for not posting a budget earlier...I'd say maximum I would spend between audio products and a TV would be 10k. I eventually want a system that I won't *ever* need to upgrade...buy once cry once kinda deal.

When I said retarded I was referring to how much my mind was blown by the quality of the speakers hehe...they're not muddy or crappy sounding at all lol. They honestly sound better than any of the Bose or HTIB system my friends have (I can't stand Bose...).

All I want outta my receiver/speakers is true to life sound. I don't need all sorts of crazy processing crap or a bazillion inputs or scifi features (the Yamaha I have now has 1 out and 4 in and I've never needed more than that).

Room size is not final...being in the military I can except to move every 4 years or so, so I have to be flexible. I do know that none of the base housing that I could possibly get assigned to have massive living rooms so I don't need an incredible amount of power nor gigantic speakers. Right now my living room is on the small side (open floor plan throughout the bottom floor though) and the 605's have enough power to more than fill the room at present. Next house I'll be in though will be a tad larger. If I can get floor plan specs I'll share them.

As for focal no longer having the 605's I believe they're a discontinued model. (purchased them late 2009). The placard on the back says "605 V". Once I'm back in the States here shortly I'll be able to post some pictures of them.

Another question I did have is how important is having matching speakers (i.e. "voice matching")? Does it really matter or is mixing/matching different series/manufacturers alright? I've always been told you should voice match if possible.

anamorphic, I think I might try that first then. I selected the NAD originally (T748) after talking with a Crutchfield advisor and reading some reviews on it. I like the no-nonsense design of it and the aesthetics. Now only if ponying up $700 bucks wasn't such a big issue haha.
 
jcslone

jcslone

Audiophyte
Another thing I forgot to mention are my audio/video sources. Currently I have an Xbox 360 Slim 4GB. I'm gonna be adopting the Xbox One when it comes out. Most of my music ends up getting played back off my laptop via HDMI (as well as my movies, 2011 MacBook Pro is what I have currently if that matters). I do plan on having a dedicated media server-esque type setup (Mac Mini with a s**tload of hard drive space) piped into the receiver via HDMI. I just need to convince my wife of the beauty of loss-less music (why does everything she download HAVE to be frikin' 128k mp3??????).
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
$10K is a good budget, I got the impression you had a much lower budget since you said $6K for the nad and focals was too much... How big is the room? Do you want to keep the 600s as surrounds?

Matching speakers is important for your front sound stage, the surrounds can be mismatched...
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
NAD HT receivers sound amazing but do not have the best track record for reliability. I still like NAD products especially the 2 channel stuff. I even owned a T751 HT receiver that only lasted 4 years and failed. With that said 700 is a good price for the 748. I think it typically goes for double. Your also dealing with Crutchfield has top notch customer support. So in case something happens they will be good about taking care of it.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
My sub can make the room shake like an earthquake and yet I still want to upgrade.
What's next beyond an earthquake, a planet buster? ;) :D
What Vulcan felt like as it was coming apart? ;)
 
jcslone

jcslone

Audiophyte
OK update, I'm finally home and had the chance to look at my speakers and they'e actually the Chorus 706V's (I apologize for the earlier confusion :-( ). I also rearranged the living room this evening (a tad more acoustically accommodating I think this way), I'll post some pics of it in the morning.

I've decided to forgo surround sound for now in favor of 2.1. All I want to upgrade/add at this point is the receiver and subwoofer. That being said I want to future proof myself and buy a good quality 5.1 deck that will do my current system justice and not limit future upgrades. Ideas?

What is it that usually goes out in the NAD decks and how often occurring of a problem is this? I'll be damned if I drop near a grand on a luxury item just to have it crap out in a few years (that being said I have no frame of reference for what is an acceptable life for a receiver). Would the offerings from Denon, Cambridge, or Onkyo be "worthy" of the Focals lol?
 
anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
OK update, I'm finally home and had the chance to look at my speakers and they'e actually the Chorus 706V's (I apologize for the earlier confusion :-( ). I also rearranged the living room this evening (a tad more acoustically accommodating I think this way), I'll post some pics of it in the morning.

I've decided to forgo surround sound for now in favor of 2.1. All I want to upgrade/add at this point is the receiver and subwoofer. That being said I want to future proof myself and buy a good quality 5.1 deck that will do my current system justice and not limit future upgrades. Ideas?

What is it that usually goes out in the NAD decks and how often occurring of a problem is this? I'll be damned if I drop near a grand on a luxury item just to have it crap out in a few years (that being said I have no frame of reference for what is an acceptable life for a receiver). Would the offerings from Denon, Cambridge, or Onkyo be "worthy" of the Focals lol?
I was thinking your speakers where from the from the 7 series as I couldn't even locate a 6 series in the Focal archives. That's good to know and looks to be a killer speaker judging by the press I read.

Going the 2.1 route is always a good way to start. You can usually get better quality and build a better system this way. My thinking may be a little backwards but here goes. I would wait an purchase a receiver when your ready to go full 5.1. Receivers change on a yearly basis and even a year can see significant changes in feature sets. A top notch integrated amp with pre-out and main in would do the trick and allow it to fully integrate into a HT at later date to continue driving the Focal's. Then when purchasing your 5.1 just make sure the receiver is equipped with pre-outs to integrate things together.

What kind of money are you allocating for the 2.1 system ? This would allow us to suggest more gear. Finding a matching center channel might be worth looking into since your speakers are not very old. Looking forward to the pics. :)
 
jcslone

jcslone

Audiophyte
*drum rolls* pics!





An amp eh? I don't know the first thing about them, is there an article/thread here on the forum or otherwise that gives a "for Dummies" run down of them? And I've never thought of running a center channel with a 2.1 system before. What's the advantages to doing that?

Ok money...let's start with a ballpark of $2,000 right now. I can be flexible seeing as I'll be buying one component at a time over the course of several months more than likely.
 
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anamorphic96

anamorphic96

Audioholic General
Sorry if I was confusing. I was mainly mentioning the center since you said you wanted a 5.1 system in the future. Since a timbre matched front stage is ideal then the matching center would be ideal.

Since you like the no nonsense approach of NAD take a look at there integrated amps. They all have the features mentioned aside from the C316.

For subs I would look at HSU, SVS, Rythmik, and Power Sound Audio all offer tremendous value and killer performance.
 
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