External control for 7.1 and below

[Buckeyefan 1]

Here's the question of the day. I was listening to some country (for my wife's sake ) during dinner through TMC's Music Choice. It usually sounds great, but for some reason, was horribly flat this evening.

For awhile, I had an older 10 band Audiosource EQ11 running between my cd player and the Denon 3805 for quick tweaking. I loved it's fast ability to "get the mud out." I've since retired it because I don't listen to cd's as often as digital cable's Music Choice. Now I miss that quick control of the two band eq. With the 3805, you have an internal 8 band eq - which works great, but takes ten minutes to get to via on screen display. To top that off, when you change it, the microprocessor remembers the last setting, so now it's set that way for all program material for digital cable.

Is there a (safe) feasible way to loop a two channel external eq through the 3805 (and any 7.1 system) for that quick control? I've thought about using the external eq with an external amp, but all I would be doing is controlling the two channels of the pre amp output to the amp, and not the entire 5 or 7 channel setup. Today's units don't offer the old school "tape monitor" selector. There's got to be a way to do this without having to add an eq to every pre-out.

 

[MacManNM]

Here's the question of the day. I was listening to some country (for my wife's sake ) during dinner through TMC's Music Choice. It usually sounds great, but for some reason, was horribly flat this evening.

For awhile, I had an older 10 band Audiosource EQ11 running between my cd player and the Denon 3805 for quick tweaking. I loved it's fast ability to "get the mud out." I've since retired it because I don't listen to cd's as often as digital cable's Music Choice. Now I miss that quick control of the two band eq. With the 3805, you have an internal 8 band eq - which works great, but takes ten minutes to get to via on screen display. To top that off, when you change it, the microprocessor remembers the last setting, so now it's set that way for all program material for digital cable.

Is there a (safe) feasible way to loop a two channel external eq through the 3805 (and any 7.1 system) for that quick control? I've thought about using the external eq with an external amp, but all I would be doing is controlling the two channels of the pre amp output to the amp, and not the entire 5 or 7 channel setup. Today's units don't offer the old school "tape monitor" selector. There's got to be a way to do with without having to add an eq to every pre-out.

As versatile as these new receivers are, I can’t imagine that you couldn’t loop the pre out to the pre in’s. The old school Marantz had jumpers you could pull off to accomplish this. I’m sure there is a way to program the receiver to do this. You would have to use several 2 ch EQ’s or some sort of digital unit that has a DAC and an ADC in it. Does anyone build a digital EQ?

 

[jaxvon]

Behringer DCX2496. I WIN CHRIS!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Behringer DCX2496. I WIN CHRIS!

Say the Behringer is used for external control. Is that unit looped through the receiver, or is everything hooked directly to the digital eq, then to the 3805's digital coax in? If so, how is switching handled? Through the Behringer? And since the Behringer is meant for pro audio, is there an integration issue with home audio? What about those gawd awful fans? Does the DCX sport one of those? Balanced vs unbalanced interconnects? Why doesn't someone here come up with a digital parametric eq meant for home use?

 

[MacManNM]

Behringer DCX2496. I WIN CHRIS!

sorry you loose, won't work

 

[jaxvon]

Shucks

The "I WIN" was the fact that I recommended it (wrongly) before WmAx, since he enjoys recommending it about as much as I love recommending the Sony MDR-7506 headphones.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Originally Posted by jaxvon
Behringer DCX2496. I WIN CHRIS!

sorry you loose, won't work
John "MacManNM"

I'm looking at the back of this unit, and just don't see how it will integrate into an A/V receiver and be able to control multiple sources.
http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=34799&id=TL01
It appears to be very similar to my unit, with an additional channel and parametric control, right?

Unless we can loop a digital eq through the Denon, or purchase 6 separate single channel eq's run through 6 monobloc amps, there doesn't seem to be a quick, feasible way to externally control every source - especially in 6.1.

 

[MacManNM]

Shucks

The "I WIN" was the fact that I recommended it (wrongly) before WmAx, since he enjoys recommending it about as much as I love recommending the Sony MDR-7506 headphones.

put another quarter in and try again.

 

[WmAx]

I'm looking at the back of this unit, and just don't see how it will integrate into an A/V receiver and be able to control multiple sources.
http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=34799&id=TL01
It appears to be very similar to my unit, with an additional channel and parametric control, right?

Unless we can loop a digital eq through the Denon, or purchase 6 separate single channel eq's run through 6 monobloc amps, there doesn't seem to be a quick, feasible way to externally control every source - especially in 6.1.

I'm sorry, buckeyfan1, but I don't have clue how you would accomplish what you wish with the reciever, if it does not have bypass loops to the amplifiers. Odd, used to be that these loops were standard on upper end recievers. Unless you want to physically modify[by bypassing the internal lines to the amp modules to route externally] the unit, you might be out of luck, unless you want to to use full external amplification. If you do choose to do full external[or do a modification to provide external bypasses] at some point, the DCX2496 is an ideal choice, because you can daisy chain them for expansion, and control all units from a single master unit via it's front controls or via a linked computer. For your reference, each DCX has 3 analog inputs[ADCs] and 6 analog outputs[DACs]. The unit also goes far beyond just e.q. control[and the eq it has is very powerful], providing for dynamic e.q.[to compensate for non linear driver behavior, though this is a fairly advanced function requiring specific measured data], a huge set of precision crossover functions and phase/delay functions. The balanced inputs/outputs are not a problem, they just require some adapters, and possibly a simple voltage divider[a pot or simply two resistors in an L-pad coniguration] on each output depending on the input voltage rating of the amps it drives.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Odd, used to be that these loops were standard on upper end recievers. Unless you want to physically modify[by bypassing the internal lines to the amp modules to route externally] the unit, you might be out of luck, unless you want to to use full external amplification.

I was afraid of that. They were always standard. It must have been the advent of 5.1 that they got rid of the loops.

If you do choose to do full external[or do a modification to provide external bypasses] at some point, the DCX2496 is an ideal choice, because you can daisy chain them for expansion, and control all units from a single master unit via it's front controls or via a linked computer.-Chris

It would be nice, but not economical. I guess I'm back to square one and using the Audiosource as a two channel analog to one source. I am a huge fan of room and system eq. Every system needs some type of equalization. These internal eq setups don't have the same flexibility as external sources. Hopefully some of these manufacturers see the need for the loop again.

Appreciate the reply.

 

[RLA]

Are you using the analog multi channel inputs on the 3805 for DVD-A/SACD or are they empty?
And do you have an extra set of analog outputs from you STB box in conjunction with its digital out
It should have at least one set

 

[annunaki]

Buckeye, I believe you are between a rock and a hard place there. If one were to use the preouts to run to the EQ, and then loop back through to the 7.1 ch. input (SACD/DVD Audio) you are stuck with one source and/or the one input. The only real solution I see around it is external amplification and eq's on each channel. Probably not what you wanted to hear.

 

[MacManNM]

Digital EQ

I agree. Someone needs to build a digital EQ, I mean how hard would it be? Have maybe 2 or 3 inputs, a DAC, 5 ch of eq, and an ADC. It really wouldn't be that hard to build. You guys think something like that would sell?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I agree. Someone needs to build a digital EQ, I mean how hard would it be? Have maybe 2 or 3 inputs, a DAC, 5 ch of eq, and an ADC. It really wouldn't be that hard to build. You guys think something like that would sell?

Building a digital eq would be simple. Getting it to switch with different sources is the tricky part. Receiver mfg's need to get a 6 channel loop built in to these new mid to high end receivers. Then digital eq's would take off.

How does one eq the fm tuner section with an external eq - say the Behringer? Without a loop, I don't think it can be done.

 

[MacManNM]

Building a digital eq would be simple. Getting it to switch with different sources is the tricky part. Receiver mfg's need to get a 6 channel loop built in to these new mid to high end receivers. Then digital eq's would take off.

How does one eq the fm tuner section with an external eq - say the Behringer? Without a loop, I don't think it can be done.

You can still use the tape function on your receiver with a standard 2 ch eq for stereo mode. choose to listen to tape, then change the record source.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You can still use the tape function on your receiver with a standard 2 ch eq for stereo mode. choose to listen to tape, then change the record source.

Mac, I'm glad you're here. No one figured that out. Page 68 in the manual shows how to record a source while listening to another source. It's not simple, but it works - somewhat. By using rca's from the eq out to the Denon 3805 cdr/tape in, and the eq in to the cdr/tape out, and by selecting zone 2 record in the cdr/tape mode, you can select - say, the FM tuner section. The sound is eq'd. The two big issues here are 1) that you cannot change the station with the function control as normal (I'll have to read more on controlling the source in zone 2), and 2) you cannot eq a digital source such as your dvd player or cable if hooked up via coax or toslink. I'll try running analog rca's to the receiver from the dvd and cable box, and instead of letting the receiver default to digital, manually choose analog when I want to eq it.

All that, in place of a simple tape monitor button. Can anyone smack these manufactureres for me? I think it's all in the name of selling more interconnects.

 

[newfmp3]

I've been going through something similar with a new NAD 773 I purchased. It does have loops for each channel, and I did stick a eq between them but it increased hiss so bad it was unbearable. Of course it only did two channels at a time, but it did do every source.

now the tape monitor option would have worked out great. No hiss at all. But, at least with my amp, no sub either. Also no sound modes at all. Of course 5.1/7.1 won't work. But pro logic, enhanced stereo1/2 and so on didn't work either. So, until my 4600 gets here ( trying it before settling on the NAD), I have a eq put between my source and the amp for music using rca cables. it sounds great and the difference is amazing.

I can't believe with everyone wanting a eq in their receivers now that no company has made an external eq that can take a digital connection in, then out to your amp. think about all those not having the money to get a new receiver or go to seperates and wanting an eq. Years ago, EQ's were a dime a dozen.

My NAD also has a digital in/out option, but I don't know if something like that would work with a behringer 2496????

 

[Audioholics]

I suppose you could use the Denon's manual EQ for your 2-channel needs and then switch it off for 5.1 listening.

 

[newfmp3]

the behringer 2496, how could I use this with the NAD. Will I still need one for each channel? fronts, center, surrounds etc.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

the behringer 2496, how could I use this with the NAD. Will I still need one for each channel? fronts, center, surrounds etc.

The 2496 is analog, but it has three channels for eq, so you may only need two for a 5.1 setup.