Epik Legend -vs- HSU VTF-2

[ahblaza]

I can't imagine the VTF-2 will have more functional output. I have said this before, these dual driver subs have a TON of output even though they are sealed. The VTF-2 will likely have more impact only in the lowest notes, but the Legend should actually have more output above 30Hz if it is anything like the Empire. IMO, having heard the VTF-3 and owned a VTF-2 previously, I'd expect the Legend to be closer in output to the VTF-3.

Thanks John, your Empire purchase was instrumental in my Legend decision
Jeff

 

[nitin_mehra20]

Thanks John, your Empire purchase was instrumental in my Legend decision
Jeff

I am guessing you meant Legendery decision

 

[j_garcia]

I spoke with Epik several months ago when I was still looking for a bedroom sub and it was an interesting conversation. Reading between the lines the impression that I got was that the theory is to price dual low mass driver boxes so low that customers can afford enough of them that the subs never have to work hard. That 4 or 8 affordable drivers (2 or 4 boxes) and amps loafing along will kick the snot out half as many expensive drivers and amps being driven hard. From a layman's perspective that actually makes a heck of a lot of sense and I will be speaking with them again next year if I go through with my ultimate subwoofer system for the family room project.

Looking at the drivers, they don't appear to be at the same level as something like an PB-13 or a JL, but in the dual configuration they don't have to be The idea that this thing isn't working hard is definitley the case - I can tell by my Panamax that this thing has a more output than my former single 15" sub yet it appears to draw far less current doing it. I've heard the Ultra a number of times and with the exception of probably the lowest notes, the Empire compares quite favorably. IMO, their cost is in the cabinet in terms of construction - these things are pretty solid and heavy.

I wrote a relatively light review of the Empire here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67373&highlight=empire

 

[sholling]

Looking at the drivers, they don't appear to be at the same level as something like an PB-13 or a JL, but in the dual configuration they don't have to be The idea that this thing isn't working hard is definitley the case - I can tell by my Panamax that this thing has a more output than my former single 15" sub yet it appears to draw far less current doing it. I've heard the Ultra a number of times and with the exception of probably the lowest notes, the Empire compares quite favorably. IMO, their cost is in the cabinet in terms of construction - these things are pretty solid and heavy.

I find subwoofers frustrating. I have a sealed Hsu ULS-15 in the bedroom (3000cuft) EQed as flat as possible with an SMS-1. Accordng to Hsu it's rated at 15-200hz ±1db and I have no doubt that this thing goes that low because I've seen the SMS-1 graphs and you can really feel the bass in your bones. It's absolutely awesome for music and some movies. What it doesn't have is deep bass slam. That boom (not to be mistaken for boomy) and rumble that vented subs bring to movie battles and crashes. It does what I bought it for (50% music, 40% TV, 10% movies) and I'm happy with it in the bedroom.

What I'm sort of debating back and forth with myself that I think relates to the OP's question is will enough sub split the difference. In other words will a big enough vented sub loafing along match the tightness of a sealed sub because it is just loafing, and/or will enough sealed drivers loafing along be able to match the 20hz explosiveness of a vented sub because they have capacity to spare? Dunno. I'll dig deeper next year when I start posting a flurry of questions around that subject. In the meantime I don't want to thread jack.

 

[j_garcia]

As far as I can tell, no. Multi-driver sealed subs still can't hang with a vented sub in the teens. This sub can still get down there for sure, but it definitely doesn't have the tactile feel that my Tempest did really low. That said, I am not disappointed with the performance one bit

 

[ahblaza]

I am guessing you meant Legendery decision

I don't understand Legendery decision?

 

[nitin_mehra20]

I don't understand Legendery decision?

I was just paraphrasing and modifying it in a joking manner Nothing serious...

 

[krzywica]

"I take offence to that!

...

Slander is spoken; in print, it's libel."



Heard and understood, Matt

As to the frequency response graph thing - at peak output, no, of course any subwoofer won't show a flat response. But at anything over 85dB from 1 meter? I don't think it's crazy to hope for flat response at 95dB output from that distance. If we are hoping to achieve flat response at 85dB at the seating position then a sub is going to have to be able to output flat response at higher volume levels than 85dB from just 1 meter.

What I was saying about the sloped frequency response at higher output levels was in response to what people were saying about the VTF-2 MK3 having flat output down to 18Hz (-3dB at 18Hz). That might be the spec and it might be perfectly true! But what I was trying to point out is that - in a real room under real conditions - you won't experience flat output down to 20Hz at your actual seat. Or, to be more precise, you might at lower volume levels, but not at reference levels - the way I listen For me, trying to have flat response at 85dB at my seat, plus trying to hit 115dB peaks, the VTF-2 MK3 started to roll off at just under 30Hz or so. I'm not certain, but I think the ports are actually tuned for 25Hz on that sub - hence having to block one port for the 20Hz "max extension" mode. It isn't at all surprising that extremely low frequency output goes down in max volume level as a result. I'm just a crazy nut who wants it ALL!

I was flat down to 18hz or lower (room gain) when I had my VTF2.3. It varies from person to person as each room is different and some rooms have no gain or even a negative affect on output. My room was a 11x20 finished basement with 7.5ft ceilings and only 1 gap for the stairway.

I installed an Epik sub sub for one of my friends and the SQ was pretty good. If it came down to SQ though I would take the HSU any day.

OP: Have you checked out the Emotiva subs. I have not heard them yet but I have a friend that has one and he loves it. I thought I read an AH review on this as well but can't seem to find it.

 

[sholling]

OP: Have you checked out the Emotiva subs. I have not heard them yet but I have a friend that has one and he loves it. I thought I read an AH review on this as well but can't seem to find it.

Naw, Gene just released a few measurements from an upcoming review to tease us.

 

[Ron Temple]

Looking at the drivers, they don't appear to be at the same level as something like an PB-13 or a JL, but in the dual configuration they don't have to be

I've heard the Ultra a number of times and with the exception of probably the lowest notes, the Empire compares quite favorably. IMO, their cost is in the cabinet in terms of construction - these things are pretty solid and heavy.

I wrote a relatively light review of the Empire here: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67373&highlight=empire

I'd agree with that. The Empire sounds like the Ultra in sealed mode and probably matches up equally in output except below 20hz. I think the Ultra may have more overall headroom, but for most of us, playing at either subs limits is just for sh*ts and grins during short demo stints, not everyday use. If I were in the market, I'd choose a pair of Empires over an Ultra13 and call it a day. That would make any comparison moot.

I doubt if the Xmax, one way, on the Empire's drivers is more than 12-13cms, but that's all they need to flex and stress John's place at reference level. It's an efficient design and a real bargain.