Entitled people of Washington State

[Hi Ho]

I grew up and have lived in Washington my entire life and I have never experienced anything like you describe. Stupid drivers? Most definitely! I usually set my cruise to 5-7 over the posted speed limit which is usually about the flow of traffic. I pass a lot of people in the fast lane and I never get dirty looks or lewd gestures. I drive 65 miles round trip to work and once I get there I drive most of the day so I have quite a few hours/miles on Washington roads. I've never had a speeding ticket, been in any type of accident, or even been pulled over.

My biggest pet peves?

1. People that apparently have no idea how to merge properly at the speed of traffic causing major choke points.

2. People that stop at green right turn arrows because there is also a red light for the traffic going straight.

There are MANY more but I really don't want to think of them at the moment. I typically don't get angry but I do get frustrated because so many things just seem like common sense to me. That's not to say that I'm always right and they're wrong. I do make mistakes like everyone else but I know the rules and it seems so many do not. Maybe it's time to toughen up our drivers tests and do some more thorough drivers ed.

There's a Youtube channel dedicated to stupid driving:

Videos on the road Collection - YouTube

 

[BMXTRIX]

Me and the woman were driving through MD on our way to NJ on a Saturday. There is a Hyundai SUV in the left lane going about 70. Cool, no problem.

See, now as I understand it - THAT IS A PROBLEM!

In the DC area there are far to many people who drive in the left lane, not passing anyone, and go 'no problem'.

I'm not down with the accident - it was messed up, but if there is nobody in the right lane, people should be moving over and allowing for faster cars to pass. This is a very standard concept in Germany and Belgium. If you pass someone, immediately move to the right lane to allow others to pass. You aren't the police, it is not your right to drive in the left lane.

If a driver behind you has enough room to get into the right lane, pass you on the right, and get back out in front of you (with enough space), then you are in the wrong freakin' lane to be driving in.

Now, not saying this was the exact case in this circumstance, since the guy didn't control his vehicle for some reason. But, for sure, just driving a bit over the local speed limit is not justification for being in the passing lane.

My real issue is that cops basically never enforce any passing lane laws in the USA. They are all over speeders, but if someone is forced to pass on the right because someone won't yield right of way, then there is never a ticket given.

Pretty sure 'flashing lights' isn't meant to be rude, but as a friendly indication to move over a lane as a faster driver approaches from behind when in Europe. Around the US it is often considered rude.

I don't get it. Seems like some laws in the US could be made in states and then enforced by officers to help the flow of traffic. Ensure the left lane drivers are passing, not impeding the flow of traffic and ticketing those who want to act as pace cars.

Same for those who use merge lanes as passing lanes, or actually enforcing HOV lane rules, which definitely allows for (and should) kids in minivans.

 

[3db]

Both the Hyundai driver and the trailer towing dude are at fault as far as I'm concerned. The Hyundai driver needs to be aware of his surroundings and o should have pulled back in the right lane. He like the faster drive has no right dictating speed. He was way in the wrong. The trailer towing dude was also in the wrong by passing him on the right and doing it in a fit of rage. If I were a cop, I would have fined both of them equally as they are both at fault.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I'm not down with the accident - it was messed up, but if there is nobody in the right lane, people should be moving over and allowing for faster cars to pass. This is a very standard concept in Germany and Belgium. If you pass someone, immediately move to the right lane to allow others to pass. You aren't the police, it is not your right to drive in the left lane.

+1

I guy I know, who was posted in Germany when he was in the army described it just as you did. He went further though. He said that if you were in the right lane and a faster car was coming up behind you, the only warning you'd get would be a flash of the headlights - then you'd better move over (assuming there's room to do so) cause he ain't slowin' down! It was expected that you would move over, because...well, why wouldn't you?

I used to drive fast in my younger days. But, as I've aged, I've decided that I'm no longer in a hurry to get anywhere. I might do 5 -10 klicks over the limit on the highway, when it's a nice clear day. If there's any fog/rain/snow, I won't exceed the limit. I stay in the right lane, unless I'm passing slower traffic. If somebody going faster than me comes up behind me and there's no room on the right for me to move over, then he can frickin' wait until I do get room; I ain't stompin' on the gas to please him...

 

[Nemo128]

Both the Hyundai driver and the trailer towing dude are at fault as far as I'm concerned. The Hyundai driver needs to be aware of his surroundings and o should have pulled back in the right lane. He like the faster drive has no right dictating speed. He was way in the wrong. The trailer towing dude was also in the wrong by passing him on the right and doing it in a fit of rage. If I were a cop, I would have fined both of them equally as they are both at fault.

Um, no. Once he's already speeding above the limit, he's actually beyond his right and in effect breaking the law.

Also, we were passing, the a-hole in the truck just took a short distance without cars in the 2nd leftmost lane as an indication that it was his time to shine. The only way you'd think that driver was at fault was if you think it's perfectly fine for you to drive whatever speed you want. It's not, and that's coming from someone who regularly drives triple digits. I do it, doesn't make it right.

While I agree that it's not courteous to block traffic in the left lane, the fact is the guy was already going above the speed limit. The accident was completely avoidable, the moron who was too stupid to control his trailer is 100% at fault. The cop who was there completely disagreed with you, for good reason.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Canada’s low speed limits are contributing to accidents: B.C. activist | Full Comment | National Post

I doubt he'll have much success, unfortunately....

 

[3db]

Um, no. Once he's already speeding above the limit, he's actually beyond his right and in effect breaking the law.

Also, we were passing, the a-hole in the truck just took a short distance without cars in the 2nd leftmost lane as an indication that it was his time to shine. The only way you'd think that driver was at fault was if you think it's perfectly fine for you to drive whatever speed you want. It's not, and that's coming from someone who regularly drives triple digits. I do it, doesn't make it right.

While I agree that it's not courteous to block traffic in the left lane, the fact is the guy was already going above the speed limit. The accident was completely avoidable, the moron who was too stupid to control his trailer is 100% at fault. The cop who was there completely disagreed with you, for good reason.

This is what I mean generally about North America as a whole not understanding traffic flow and being able to drive. No question, the trailer guy was a moron. The Hyundai was equally a moron as well. Its just that we have f?cked up traffic rules here in NA that allow for BS like this to happen. Having driven in Europe and NA, I feel safer driving in Europe with the lethal speeds that they drive at than the slower speed limits here in NA.

 

[lsiberian]

Driving a car is as dangerous as using any other power tool. How many of us would cut wood with a saw while talking on a cell phone?

I think our best bet is to invest heavily in crash avoidance technologies. We already have the technology needed to avoid the majority of collisions.

Enforcement simply won't work at this point. The population loves the thrill of speeding. We simply need to design products to aid their safety at those speeds.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Driving a car is as dangerous as using any other power tool. How many of us would cut wood with a saw while talking on a cell phone?

I think our best bet is to invest heavily in crash avoidance technologies. We already have the technology needed to avoid the majority of collisions.

Enforcement simply won't work at this point. The population loves the thrill of speeding. We simply need to design products to aid their safety at those speeds.

You're right about people wanting to speed. However, I would think that increasing the standards in our driver training would instill a better attitude on the part of drivers and knock our accident rates down.

Compare traffic fatalities between Germany and US/Canada:

List of countries by traffic-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's a clear-cut difference, if I've ever seen one! First of all, you have to be 18 to get a drivers license in Germany and the training requirements make those in North America laughable by comparison. The leading cause of death amongst North American teenagers is traffic accidents, if I have my statistics correct. I wouldn't be very popular amongst the kiddies for saying this, but I'd raise the minimum age to 18 here also, as a start. Plus, tighten up the standards for driver training.

 

[markw]

...We already have the technology needed to avoid the majority of collisions.

But common sense is the number one defense and we can't build a device to provide that. Head-ons from out of nowhere are pretty hard to avoid,

Enforcement simply won't work at this point. The population loves the thrill of speeding. We simply need to design products to aid their safety at those speeds.

And some teenie who has had their license for all of two months texting while talking to their friends in the back seat and swerving from lane to lane will trump damn near anything we can come up with.

Darwin will win. Unfortunately, innocents suffer as well.

 

[3db]

While I agree that it's not courteous to block traffic in the left lane, the fact is the guy was already going above the speed limit. The accident was completely avoidable, the moron who was too stupid to control his trailer is 100% at fault. The cop who was there completely disagreed with you, for good reason.

I reread this and see your point. That does become a gray line in that how much faster was he doing over the speed limit. If it was like 5 to 10 mph faster, then Hyundai was clearly not in the wrong. If it was under 5 mph, then he should have stepped on the gas to make the pass happen quicker. I do this all the time when doing highway passing. I employ cruise control during my highway drives and if I notice someone coming up behind me at a high rate, I step on the gas to get clear and let the guy behind me pass me. Its just the polite thing to do. If I'm passing a string of cars which is often the case, I'll quicken the pace slightly but will only pull over once I'm clear that line of cars. There has to be some level of understanding in dynamics and courtesy.

 

[its phillip]

Meh. If there is nobody in front of me, and the guy coming up behind me wants to go faster, I will move out of his way. Obviously if there is somebody in front of me then he'll just have to wait like I am. I don't care if I'm going 15 or 20 over, I'll still yield to faster traffic. That's how it should work on the highway whenever possible.

 

[BMXTRIX]

To emphasize my point, and something I'm sure others have seen happen:

I drove from Washington, DC to Richmond, VA yesterday night. About 100 miles.

Set the cruise control to about 9 miles over the speed limit.

For the most part the drive was fine, passed a fair number of people on the left side, but ran into a few people who were AT the speed limit and camped in the left lane. Plenty of room in the right lane so I just passed them on the right. No high beams, no issues.

My headache: The lanes opened up to 3 lanes wide. I pulled into the middle lane, and one guy kept going between 70 and 85 miles per hour... and camp in the left lane. He would pass me, be a few hundred feet ahead, then slow down and be a few hundred feet behind. It must have happened like ten or more times. He would park himself next to me, then suddenly speed up for a few seconds and be several hundred feet ahead of me. Then suddenly slow down and be several hundred feet behind me. The jumps in speed both faster and slower were extremely erratic.

At least three times a car got behind me who wanted to pass him, and I would move into the right lane (if I could) to allow them to pass. Once a car just went all the way to the right to pass.

THAT guy in the left lane was the type that seems to need a ticket. He didn't know how to drive. He didn't want to lead or follow or get out of the way and it forced other drivers to deal with his erratic behavior.

I was very happy when he branched another direction on the freeway finally.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Um, no. Once he's already speeding above the limit, he's actually beyond his right and in effect breaking the law.

Then become a cop and just write speeding tickets. Seriously, once you park in the left lane and impede the flow of traffic, regardless of your speed, it may also be breaking the law. The difference is that the guy speeding is not your responsibility to control, while your own decision to park it in the left lane is 100% your choice.

Not that I feel that the accident was your fault in any way!

Also, we were passing, the a-hole in the truck just took a short distance without cars in the 2nd leftmost lane as an indication that it was his time to shine. The only way you'd think that driver was at fault was if you think it's perfectly fine for you to drive whatever speed you want. It's not, and that's coming from someone who regularly drives triple digits. I do it, doesn't make it right.

I feel that driver was entirely at fault. I certainly wasn't there, but there was clearly some room to pass on the right. Not sure how fast you were passing or if it made some sense to take a moment to move over and allow faster traffic, even if it was just one truck, to pass.

I was not there and don't want to imply that you were rude in any way, but it certainly occurs often that people don't take a chance to move over when they know someone wants to pass and they have the chance to move over.

While I agree that it's not courteous to block traffic in the left lane, the fact is the guy was already going above the speed limit.

As said - this absolutely has zero bearing on everyone's responsibility to be courteous and clear the left lane when not passing. Almost 100% of people drive 5 miles over the speed limit. Some drive 10 over some 15 over. With a near 100% standard of going over the speed limit, the only real consistent concept should be the capability of people to be courteous to those travelling a bit faster then them when they can.

The accident was completely avoidable, the moron who was too stupid to control his trailer is 100% at fault. The cop who was there completely disagreed with you, for good reason.

I agree with this - 100%. Always your responsibility to control your vehicle when possible. True accidents are those when your car hydroplanes unexpectedly or a tire blows or brakes fail. The rest is just a lack of paying attention and driving responsibly.

 

[Sheep]

Driving faster than other people has nothing to do with aggression, I just like to drive faster than most people. Personal preference. I mostly try to stay out of people's way, my speed is none of their concern. I'm not flying down the freeway, I just like to drive faster (5-7mph over posted speed).

I don't put my headlights in their mirror out of anger, I do it to get their attention so they will know I am there and get over. I don't tailgate them or turn my brights on, I just make sure they can see my headlights. I don't think that is aggressive, maybe I'm wrong.

I didn't pace her until after she flipped me off, so how could that attribute to why people react to me the way they do?

Of course the common element is me, I'm always there when it happens.

Honestly, I would prefer a high beam, or short honk and a normal "please move over" gesture then a tailgate and light in the mirror. But I ride a bicycle to work, so my issues as of late have been about stupid cars stopping in cross walks, people walking 4 wide in a bike path, and the 4 snapped chains.

Sheepstar

 

[Matt34]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I PIT maneuver anyone sitting in the left lane, I'm so efficient at it I don't even have to let off the gas.

If I'm caravanning with other vehicles I coordinate a TPAC through percise hand jestures while holding my Kimber .45.

 

[CaliHwyPatrol]

Honestly, I would prefer a high beam, or short honk and a normal "please move over" gesture then a tailgate and light in the mirror. But I ride a bicycle to work, so my issues as of late have been about stupid cars stopping in cross walks, people walking 4 wide in a bike path, and the 4 snapped chains.

Sheepstar

Tailgating is dangerous. I prefer to keep a safe distance, but stagger my car so they see my headlights. I do it as a reminder that someone is behind them, not to be distracting. I've found that flashing my brights a couple of times is equivalent to giving the finger around here since it usually elicits that response. It's sad that flashing brights has come to that, especially considering the feature of being able to flash your brights without toggling them is called "Flash to pass".

I feel for you man, bike riders don't have it easy. I live in a pretty rural area, so people who ride bikes around here have to ride them in the street with cars, so they are always getting a bad rap for holding up traffic.

 

[3db]

Meh. If there is nobody in front of me, and the guy coming up behind me wants to go faster, I will move out of his way. Obviously if there is somebody in front of me then he'll just have to wait like I am. I don't care if I'm going 15 or 20 over, I'll still yield to faster traffic. That's how it should work on the highway whenever possible.

In Ontario Canada, doing around 25 - 30 mph over the speed limit is considered street racing and the penalty is loss of license and car. If I'm passing a line of cars, I will not push the speed limit to that point because someone behind me wants to drive faster than me. Once, I'm past the last car, I will pull over. The faster driver has to realize to that pulling into the lane of slower cars is a potentially dangerous thing especially when they drive almost bumper to bumper in the right lane (which I don't get either). Don't get me wrong,,, I will speed up if someone faster than me is creeping up behind me but not to the limit where I risk loss of license and vehicle.


NOMO brought up a good discussion.

 

[Nemo128]

This is what I mean generally about North America as a whole not understanding traffic flow and being able to drive. No question, the trailer guy was a moron. The Hyundai was equally a moron as well. Its just that we have f?cked up traffic rules here in NA that allow for BS like this to happen. Having driven in Europe and NA, I feel safer driving in Europe with the lethal speeds that they drive at than the slower speed limits here in NA.

Well my real issue is this. If someone is already going over the speed limit, they are breaking the law. Agreed?

What you're arguing is that the law can be subjectively applied. Hypothetically speaking, you were the driver in the truck. You are saying the speed limit law doesn't apply to you, because you want to go faster than the already above-limit 70MPH that you are going. And that's your right.

However, the driver of the other vehicle has no right to be cruising at 5MPH over the speed limit in the left lane.

So, you want to subjectively apply the laws. Or more accurately, the laws apply to others but not you.

In my world view, you can't have it both ways. I regularly hit 110-130MPH on my commute to work for miles at a time. Can I really get mad at the guy going 90MPH in the left lane? I don't, because I recognize that I am already well over the speed limit. If I won't obey the law myself, I'd be a hypocrit to expect another driver to obey the law.

Now, when someone is driving BELOW the speed limit by ANY degree, I expect them to GTFO of my way. If you're going 64.99MPH in a 65MPH zone, GTFO of the passing lane (given there's room and opportunity to shift lanes). But if I pull up behind someone going 70 and I'm approaching at 80, I do get annoyed by the situation of course but I can't get mad at them for their actions. If I wasn't speeding to begin with, I wouldn't have caught up with them.

I don't subscribe to subjective applicability of law. That's why Mayweather gets 2 months in jail when any of us middle-class common guys would have done years for the same crime. Separate issue but meant to illustrate the point of what happens when we're not all equal in the eyes of the law.

 

[3db]

Well my real issue is this. If someone is already going over the speed limit, they are breaking the law. Agreed?

What you're arguing is that the law can be subjectively applied. Hypothetically speaking, you were the driver in the truck. You are saying the speed limit law doesn't apply to you, because you want to go faster than the already above-limit 70MPH that you are going. And that's your right.

However, the driver of the other vehicle has no right to be cruising at 5MPH over the speed limit in the left lane.

So, you want to subjectively apply the laws. Or more accurately, the laws apply to others but not you.

In my world view, you can't have it both ways. I regularly hit 110-130MPH on my commute to work for miles at a time. Can I really get mad at the guy going 90MPH in the left lane? I don't, because I recognize that I am already well over the speed limit. If I won't obey the law myself, I'd be a hypocrit to expect another driver to obey the law.

Now, when someone is driving BELOW the speed limit by ANY degree, I expect them to GTFO of my way. If you're going 64.99MPH in a 65MPH zone, GTFO of the passing lane (given there's room and opportunity to shift lanes). But if I pull up behind someone going 70 and I'm approaching at 80, I do get annoyed by the situation of course but I can't get mad at them for their actions. If I wasn't speeding to begin with, I wouldn't have caught up with them.

I don't subscribe to subjective applicability of law. That's why Mayweather gets 2 months in jail when any of us middle-class common guys would have done years for the same crime. Separate issue but meant to illustrate the point of what happens when we're not all equal in the eyes of the law.

I look at it from traffic flow pattern, not the law. I think that's where the discussion is boiling down to and even there, its not black and white. However, when people get behind the wheel, a sense of entitlement washes over them and they will not speed up or slow down to accomadate safe and courteous passing depending on traffic flow.

One thing I forgot to mention.....what kind of person speeds while towing a trailer? If one is towing a trailer of any kind, one should be able to keep up with the general traffic flow but by no means should one be the fastest one on the road. That's just plain wrong and freaken stupid. When I was towing a tent trailer, the best I did was to keep up with traffic but leaving even a bigger gap between me and the person in front of me becuase of the increased inertia required to stop a fully loaded van and tent trailer.