Emotiva Stealth DC1 VS Bluesound Vault 2?

[MarkTheShark]

So, I know the heading doesn't make a lot of sense, your thinking where's this knucklehead going with this?

Please bear with me.

I would like to get all my CDs saved in Flac form for preservation, organization and playback. I have a Home system with Marantz 5011 AV receiver used as kind of a "preamp" = Pre out going to Rogue Audio Sphinx and two Martin Logan Motion 15s. Eventually I will use the Sphinx to feed 2 Spatial M3 Turbos and use the Logan Martins and one Cambridge Soundworks speaker for Surround and center channel. Turntable, TV, and digital files connected to the 5011 as a preamp. Is this a good way these components should be set up for 5 channel surround and then the best sound I can get in just stereo?

Second system is at the office with an older Yamaha M4 and Mcintosh 5100 with some older B&W monitor speakers. Setting this up for base system for playing digital Audio and messing around with vintage components.

I'd would like to use somewhat portable storage for these and other systems while keeping things high quality.

Option 1: Buy a Emotiva Stealth DC1 ($500) which will allow very good sound for either system and buy a laptop with external drive ($500?) for storing all my CDs and future purchases on FLAC.
Pros
DC1 is a much better DAC component
DC1 seems more flexible to use with different systems
Less expensive than option 2
Cons
Could have limitations on storage size over time
Less portable (more pieces)
Laptops life expectancy is limited
Possible laptop crashing

Option 2: Buy a single Bluesound Vault 2 ($1,200) and rip, store and play back using Bluesound App.
Pros:
All in one unit, unplug and use in the office, on the boat, friends house etc...
TI Burr Brown 32-bit/384kHz DAC (this seems like a good DAC, will I hear the difference?)
Might be more secure storage than laptop
2 TB of storage
Cons:
App could be clunky
Reports of older Vault 1 not reading CDs well
I have found no really great reviews

Sorry for the long question, but I figure you people are detail oriented

 

[j_garcia]

You don't have to use a laptop, there are other small PC options, but a laptop gives most flexibility. External storage is cheap and easily backed up and replaced. You don't necessarily need an external drive with a laptop either - you can get 1TB internal SSD even on most small laptops. Of those two, I'd probably opt for #1.

 

[MarkTheShark]

Thanks j, I do like the small PC option over the laptop, I think I'll do a little more research. It looks like I can fit 3000 CDs on 1TB, which is way more than I need. I could stream movies from it as well.

 

[Bucknekked]

You don't have to use a laptop, there are other small PC options, but a laptop gives most flexibility. External storage is cheap and easily backed up and replaced. You don't necessarily need an external drive with a laptop either - you can get 1TB internal SSD even on most small laptops. Of those two, I'd probably opt for #1.

Buy what sounds good to you. You have good choices on your list. I'd like to talk about data for a moment.
Since you are beginning the build of your music library, a few things are important.

I'm an IT guy that also does audio so I almost always look at these "how do I rip my CD's, store them, and future proof my library" as IT questions not really audio questions. From an IT perspective, you reduce risk of loss with multiple, separate, copies of your data. It also means don't put critical data (ie your music library) on internal devices that are tied to the OS and normal operations of the machine if you can avoid it.
Or, if you must use an internal drive, make sure you have at least one copy on an external drive on another machine.

A good working scenario is deploying external storage devices on at least two separate machines. You will have two machines in your setup, so you are good there: one at home and one at the office. Keeping your original CD's in a safe place will provide you with a fallback if something nasty happens. External storage devices are a snap to pickup and move, attach to another machine, or recover from the failure of a computers internal drive. There is no question "if" a drive will fail. Its only a question of "when" it will fail.

I run a setup similar to this. I have an iMac with an external raid array. That's my primary music libraries home. I rip everything there and then move a copy to my music rooms machine. I have a Mac mini in my music room with an external drive that contains the copy of my music library I play every day. I keep all my CD's in my gun safe so I always have a way to re-create the wheel.

If either Mac dies, or either Mac's internal disk dies, I'm covered as far as data loss is concerned. The true value of the on disk data is the time involved in the ripping and cataloguing. I have tons of time invested in putting all that together so I want to protect my investment in my time as much as the bits n bytes.

Using a lossless file format is also a good idea if you are just starting out ripping and storing. There are lots of debates on what format to use and I'm not gonna respond to arguments on which is best or better. A lossless format eats more storage than any of your other options. Do you care? I don't care because storage is dirt cheap. If you do care, then choose what makes you happy. You have indicated FLAC, and that's a perfectly fine choice. It has wide support . There are many programs that will translate FLAC files to other formats very quickly for little or no cost. Sounds future friendly to me.

You don't need to buy a dedicated sound vault to accomplish any of your goals. You certainly can if you wish. But two computers will handle all the work with no sweat. Its gonna sound great either way.
Have fun. Be well.

 

[KenM10759]

I have a Vault 2 (had a Vault V500) so you can guess where I'd be.

The Vault 2 has a very high quality TEAC CD transport and the read routines embedded are a couple steps up from something like Windows Media Player. I have definitely seen the difference in the files (not heard) because the PC rips I had to do when the first Vault failed (replaced under warranty, I chose to upgrade) have a lot of shortened first songs. The Vault 2 reads a disk two or three times and records to a temp file, moves the best (largest) to the library and erases the temps. I choose to rip in FLAC from the CD's, though I can choose WAV, MP3, MP3+WAV, or FLAC+MP3. That's nice if you want to drop all the MP3's to a mobile device and still have a high quality file...no extra steps.

I like it because my PC is usually OFF when I'm listening to music, and it's in another room anyhow. I can access, add, delete, move and/or copy any files on the Vault as they're shared files. All I have to do with the BlueOS system after changes is hit "reindex" and it's a clean list again. I get all the artwork and metadata with the rips too, automatically. The DAC is really excellent.

Other features that made me choose the Vault 2 are streaming services (I wanted Tidal HiFi) and how I can create & save a playlist that can be a mix of library and streamed tracks. I had bought for $120 a size-matched Western Digital MyCloud 2TB drive that's on my same network, and occasionally make a mirror copy of the Vault 2's drive.

Lastly, I have MQA decoding at no extra charge. And it's GREAT! Oh yeah, and I find it's a LOT easier to slip the CD into the Vault and pluck it off when done ripping. No drawer, no buttons.

 

[Bucknekked]

I have a Vault 2 (had a Vault V500) so you can guess where I'd be.

The Vault 2 has a very high quality TEAC CD transport and the read routines embedded are a couple steps up from something like Windows Media Player. I have definitely seen the difference in the files (not heard) because the PC rips I had to do when the first Vault failed (replaced under warranty, I chose to upgrade) have a lot of shortened first songs. The Vault 2 reads a disk two or three times and records to a temp file, moves the best (largest) to the library and erases the temps. I choose to rip in FLAC from the CD's, though I can choose WAV, MP3, MP3+WAV, or FLAC+MP3. That's nice if you want to drop all the MP3's to a mobile device and still have a high quality file...no extra steps.

I like it because my PC is usually OFF when I'm listening to music, and it's in another room anyhow. I can access, add, delete, move and/or copy any files on the Vault as they're shared files. All I have to do with the BlueOS system after changes is hit "reindex" and it's a clean list again. I get all the artwork and metadata with the rips too, automatically. The DAC is really excellent.

Other features that made me choose the Vault 2 are streaming services (I wanted Tidal HiFi) and how I can create & save a playlist that can be a mix of library and streamed tracks. I had bought for $120 a size-matched Western Digital MyCloud 2TB drive that's on my same network, and occasionally make a mirror copy of the Vault 2's drive.

Lastly, I have MQA decoding at no extra charge. And it's GREAT! Oh yeah, and I find it's a LOT easier to slip the CD into the Vault and pluck it off when done ripping. No drawer, no buttons.

KenM
Sounds like a great setup. I'm liking the options and the flexibility. I have used Spotify vs Tidal since all my kids use Spotify and they could show me how. We can also trade playlists etc. I would be interested in your take on Spotify and Tidal. Streaming services just give me a way to hear music easily before deciding on whether or not I want to add it to my library.

 

[MarkTheShark]

I have a Vault 2 (had a Vault V500) so you can guess where I'd be.

The Vault 2 has a very high quality TEAC CD transport and the read routines embedded are a couple steps up from something like Windows Media Player. I have definitely seen the difference in the files (not heard) because the PC rips I had to do when the first Vault failed (replaced under warranty, I chose to upgrade) have a lot of shortened first songs. The Vault 2 reads a disk two or three times and records to a temp file, moves the best (largest) to the library and erases the temps. I choose to rip in FLAC from the CD's, though I can choose WAV, MP3, MP3+WAV, or FLAC+MP3. That's nice if you want to drop all the MP3's to a mobile device and still have a high quality file...no extra steps.

I like it because my PC is usually OFF when I'm listening to music, and it's in another room anyhow. I can access, add, delete, move and/or copy any files on the Vault as they're shared files. All I have to do with the BlueOS system after changes is hit "reindex" and it's a clean list again. I get all the artwork and metadata with the rips too, automatically. The DAC is really excellent.

Other features that made me choose the Vault 2 are streaming services (I wanted Tidal HiFi) and how I can create & save a playlist that can be a mix of library and streamed tracks. I had bought for $120 a size-matched Western Digital MyCloud 2TB drive that's on my same network, and occasionally make a mirror copy of the Vault 2's drive.

Lastly, I have MQA decoding at no extra charge. And it's GREAT! Oh yeah, and I find it's a LOT easier to slip the CD into the Vault and pluck it off when done ripping. No drawer, no buttons.

Thanks KenM. That does sound very convenient. Do you consider the Vault 2 to be a device thats portable? Is The MQA file a better option because it's smaller

 

[MarkTheShark]

Buy what sounds good to you. You have good choices on your list. I'd like to talk about data for a moment.
Since you are beginning the build of your music library, a few things are important.

I'm an IT guy that also does audio so I almost always look at these "how do I rip my CD's, store them, and future proof my library" as IT questions not really audio questions. From an IT perspective, you reduce risk of loss with multiple, separate, copies of your data. It also means don't put critical data (ie your music library) on internal devices that are tied to the OS and normal operations of the machine if you can avoid it.
Or, if you must use an internal drive, make sure you have at least one copy on an external drive on another machine.

A good working scenario is deploying external storage devices on at least two separate machines. You will have two machines in your setup, so you are good there: one at home and one at the office. Keeping your original CD's in a safe place will provide you with a fallback if something nasty happens. External storage devices are a snap to pickup and move, attach to another machine, or recover from the failure of a computers internal drive. There is no question "if" a drive will fail. Its only a question of "when" it will fail.

I run a setup similar to this. I have an iMac with an external raid array. That's my primary music libraries home. I rip everything there and then move a copy to my music rooms machine. I have a Mac mini in my music room with an external drive that contains the copy of my music library I play every day. I keep all my CD's in my gun safe so I always have a way to re-create the wheel.

If either Mac dies, or either Mac's internal disk dies, I'm covered as far as data loss is concerned. The true value of the on disk data is the time involved in the ripping and cataloguing. I have tons of time invested in putting all that together so I want to protect my investment in my time as much as the bits n bytes.

Using a lossless file format is also a good idea if you are just starting out ripping and storing. There are lots of debates on what format to use and I'm not gonna respond to arguments on which is best or better. A lossless format eats more storage than any of your other options. Do you care? I don't care because storage is dirt cheap. If you do care, then choose what makes you happy. You have indicated FLAC, and that's a perfectly fine choice. It has wide support . There are many programs that will translate FLAC files to other formats very quickly for little or no cost. Sounds future friendly to me.

You don't need to buy a dedicated sound vault to accomplish any of your goals. You certainly can if you wish. But two computers will handle all the work with no sweat. Its gonna sound great either way.
Have fun. Be well.

Thanks Buck, great point on the redundant drives. Separate drives are more secure, but a little more work to keep organized. In using 2 Raid Hard drive are you actually backing everything up 4 times?
Are you using Apple Lossless files? I do have Macs at the house and in the office, What do you use for a streaming app? Part of the reason I am doing this is to get away from iTunes.

What are your thoughts on one hard drive each at office and home, then put them on a personal cloud to transfer Flac or Apple Lossless files to and from?

 

[Bucknekked]

Thanks Buck, great point on the redundant drives. Separate drives are more secure, but a little more work to keep organized. In using 2 Raid Hard drive are you actually backing everything up 4 times?
Are you using Apple Lossless files? I do have Macs at the house and in the office, What do you use for a streaming app? Part of the reason I am doing this is to get away from iTunes.

What are your thoughts on one hard drive each at office and home, then put them on a personal cloud to transfer Flac or Apple Lossless files to and from?

Yes is the answer, now what was the question?

I have a raid array on my iMac because at one point in my life I thought it would be something I could do as a single point storage solution. There are 2 drives in my array, so one backs up the other. The problem with raid arrays is there are single points of failure within the device that can kill access to either or both drives. It just depends on which drive you need access to. That will be the one that won't work anymore. Any enclosure, I don't care what it gets called, if it has single points of failure, you can lose all the good stuff inside when that part that's never supposed to fail goes ahead and fails. That goes for a Mac, a PC, a SAN box on a network, or event a Vault.

After plowing a lot of ripping hours in to my library, it became apparent to me I needed a second copy. That's too much work to do over. So I put up a second copy of the library in my music room You are correct, 2 external drives maintaining two copies is a little more work. I use iTunes because I'm lazy and iTunes still hasn't completely pissed me off yet. iTunes will also keep the two libraries in sync with sharing across the network. That could be considered a "cloud" network. Maintaining it is no harder than one copy.

I am working through re-encoding a good sized chunk of my library from 320Kbps/16bit in MP3/AAC files to AIFF lossless files. I chose to encode AIFF rather than FLAC because iTunes will play AIFF, but not FLAC. Both are lossless and either is independent of Apple. I only chose AIFF because iTunes will play them directly and import them directly and its no muss no fuss. I have tried other programs, such as XLD, and each had its own issues.

If you are out of iTunes, then FLAC makes more sense than AIFF in my opinion. There are certainly lots of players that will handle FLAC, just that slacker iTunes that doesn't seem to. I understand there are lots of iTunes haters and reasons to leave it in the dust. I am trying to re-code my library for lossless and stay out of any dependencies on iTunes in case we have a falling out.

 

[KenM10759]

Thanks KenM. That does sound very convenient. Do you consider the Vault 2 to be a device thats portable? Is The MQA file a better option because it's smaller

Portable in what sense? I'd have to pull the analog interconnects (or single digital connection), the Ethernet cable, and power cord. You can use it away from the Ethernet connection for ripping, though it's best to have at least wireless so you can check status.

MQA files are about the same size or in some cases a little larger than a WAV file of the same recording. You can't rip from a CD and create an MQA file, you either stream them from Tidal HiFi or download from another source. BTW, with the BlueOS system you can buy, download and store HD files up to 24/192 from HDTracks.com from within the app.

 

[MarkTheShark]

Portable in what sense? I'd have to pull the analog interconnects (or single digital connection), the Ethernet cable, and power cord. You can use it away from the Ethernet connection for ripping, though it's best to have at least wireless so you can check status.

MQA files are about the same size or in some cases a little larger than a WAV file of the same recording. You can't rip from a CD and create an MQA file, you either stream them from Tidal HiFi or download from another source. BTW, with the BlueOS system you can buy, download and store HD files up to 24/192 from HDTracks.com from within the app.

I guess portable is a relative term, I would like to disconnect the drive and use it on other systems like my office or a friends house.

Thanks , I'll have to do more research on MQA

 

[KenM10759]

The drive in a Bluesound Vault can be accessed via Ethernet like any other drive and its file system appears similar to any. Folders by artist, subfolders by album, then tracks by number and song title. I don't think it's a good idea to put anything but music on it because the app has a "rebuild index" function which could affect file structures it doesn't recognize. If you want I can ask on the Bluesound support forum.

I certainly have brought mine over to some relatives' homes to demo it, plug n' play!

MQA (Master Quality Authentication) is a "lossless compression/decompression" thing that is licensed to approved partners. I could write a book about how it works but I'll just say, I like it...a LOT. Comparing CD's to MQA versions of the same album, the MQA file really sound "more coherent" to me. Many other Tidal Hi-Fi users with MQA decoding DAC's seem to agree. There are some where the effect is minimal, barely noticeable. Other files it can be a profound improvement. That's been my experience so far, only been a few weeks and there's a limited amount of MQA files out there. Warner Artists Group was the first with Tidal, and the Tidal Owners' group and a few small labels have also signed on.