Elevated sub - yes or no?

[pg_rider]

Recently moved to a new house and, due to space and layout constraints, I currently have one of my subs sitting on my entertainment center. I have to say it sounds pretty decent -- no rattles, even when it's really thumping.

I thought I'd read that having one sub out of place with the other can help smooth out peaks / nulls. Think I'm getting any benefit with the subs in this layout?

 

[j_garcia]

It entirely depends on the room, but yes, I'd expect you are getting some benefits from that location. There's an article about room modes vs the location of the sub and basically you are shifting where those modes are by elevating that one, possibly smoothing the response between the two.

Nice room and setup

 

[afterlife2]

Nicely put together, maybe a carpet(Door mat) underneath the sub Is what I'd say.

 

[bikemig]

Great looking room; so how do you keep the little ones from playing with your speakers?

 

[pg_rider]

Great looking room; so how do you keep the little ones from playing with your speakers?

Fear and intimidation! lol No, seriously -- you set very clear groundrules from the start and they will respond appropriately. Now, when their friends come over it's a different story and the grills go on! lol

 

[McR]

Hi,i found that Auralex SubDude pads will greatly improve your subs by reducing unwanted vibrations from floors ,walls , ect. really cleans things up. Great setup!

 

[Nestor]

Nice room.

There's been recent hype about elevating subs. Don't fall for it. There's no acoustic benefit. If you want to be sure, perform a frequency sweep before and after.

Subdudes are a sham.

 

[McR]

Maybe for some ,but i run 4 subs ,pushing 3200 watts per pair,without the decoupling there would be no art on the walls & a really p'd off wife. Sham is a bit harsh,they work for me & anything that keeps the wife happy is great in my books.lol

 

[j_garcia]

There's been recent hype about elevating subs. Don't fall for it. There's no acoustic benefit. If you want to be sure, perform a frequency sweep before and after.

Subdudes are a sham.

You are mistaken, and the purpose of a Subdude/Gramma is NOT to elevate, it is to decouple. Decoupling removes much of the transmitted resonance from the sub to whatever it is sitting on so you get just the sound of the sub. In the case of dual opposed subs, it doesn't help because little or not vibration is transmitted via the cabinet.

 

[Nestor]

You are mistaken, and the purpose of a Subdude/Gramma is NOT to elevate, it is to decouple. Decoupling removes much of the transmitted resonance from the sub to whatever it is sitting on so you get just the sound of the sub. In the case of dual opposed subs, it doesn't help because little or not vibration is transmitted via the cabinet.

This makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Nestor]

Maybe for some ,but i run 4 subs ,pushing 3200 watts per pair,without the decoupling there would be no art on the walls & a really p'd off wife. Sham is a bit harsh,they work for me & anything that keeps the wife happy is great in my books.lol

Harsh or not, it's the truth.

 

[j_garcia]

This makes absolutely no sense.

With your subs it probably doesn't make sense. With a typical mass market sub and a suspended floor, it does make sense. A typical sub transmits vibration directly to the floor, even with feet. The floor is then vibrating and "adding" to the sound. Removing that means you hear the sub only not the sub and the floor. I've done it with multiple subs, both on suspended and concrete slab floors and it helped in both rooms. With my Empire however, it didn't make any difference. On my old sub, objects would vibrate off of it. On the Empire, there's almost no vibration transmitted to objects in contact with it. In most cases, it will be audible in certain bands, and with my previous sub (15" in a sonotube, Adire Tempest tuned to 17.5Hz on concrete slab) it made a very noticeable improvement in the upper range. In the same room, same location, the Gramma made no difference with the Empire so I removed it. Never took measurements, but the difference was audible with the Tempest. I was not EQ'ing that sub. It is a small thing that may not matter to some, but small things add up. Speaking from experience not theory.

 

[Nestor]

With your subs it probably doesn't make sense. With a typical mass market sub and a suspended floor, it does make sense. A typical sub transmits vibration directly to the floor, even with feet. The floor is then vibrating and "adding" to the sound. Removing that means you hear the sub only not the sub and the floor. I've done it with multiple subs, both on suspended and concrete slab floors and it helped in both rooms. With my Empire however, it didn't make any difference. On my old sub, objects would vibrate off of it. On the Empire, there's almost no vibration transmitted to objects in contact with it. In most cases, it will be audible in certain bands, and with my previous sub (15" in a sonotube, Adire Tempest tuned to 17.5Hz on concrete slab) it made a very noticeable improvement in the upper range. In the same room, same location, the Gramma made no difference with the Empire so I removed it. Never took measurements, but the difference was audible with the Tempest. I was not EQ'ing that sub. It is a small thing that may not matter to some, but small things add up. Speaking from experience not theory.

"Never took measurements"

That's all I need to know.

 

[Alex2507]

"Never took measurements"

That's all I need to know.

I took some measurements. After installing a Gramma my sub was about a couple of inches higher.

 

[Adam]

"It worked for me."

"You're wrong. It couldn't have worked for you."

*Grabs popcorn.*

 

[j_garcia]

"It worked for me."

"You're wrong. It couldn't have worked for you."

*Grabs popcorn.*

Yes, I knew that's what you meant. You need this one:

guessing this thread and the other one will go nowhere.

 

[Pyrrho]

"It worked for me."

"You're wrong. It couldn't have worked for you."

*Grabs popcorn.*

The same kinds of discussions happen with wires, freezing CDs, green ink on the edges of CDs, etc. If something really works, it should be possible to get some kind of evidence in favor of it, rather than just having people claim it works. I have read (on another audio site) about a guy who claimed not only to routinely hear the difference between wires, but to hear the difference between wires when ONLY THE INSULATION was different (so that the actual metal wire was identical), and EVEN WHEN IT WAS JUST A MATTER OF THE PIGMENT in the insulation (i.e., the color was different, but was otherwise identical material in composition and thickness). Of course, he had no evidence to show for this ability, and anyone can claim anything at all when no supporting evidence is required.

With all the people measuring subwoofers online, one would think that if this really made a difference, someone would post some measurements about it. But maybe the people who have the skill to actually take proper measurements consider it a waste of time, and therefore do not bother. Otherwise, it is mysterious that there seem to be no such measurements to be found.


It is worth pointing out that the original post in this thread is not about such platforms, but about positioning the subwoofer differently (see picture in opening post). By raising the subwoofer off the floor, it is moving it away from the bottom corner, in a manner similar to simply moving it on the floor a foot or two from the corner of the room (but still near a wall). That is an entirely different concept from using some sort of isolation pad under the subwoofer.

 

[Pyrrho]

You are mistaken, and the purpose of a Subdude/Gramma is NOT to elevate, it is to decouple. Decoupling removes much of the transmitted resonance from the sub to whatever it is sitting on so you get just the sound of the sub. In the case of dual opposed subs, it doesn't help because little or not vibration is transmitted via the cabinet.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Whether it makes sense or not, that is what they claim about their product:

The Auralex SubDude(HD) is a 15" x 15" x 2.5" platform wrapped with ozite to fit any room setting. Its purpose is to prevent sound from transmitting through your subwoofer to surrounding surfaces.​

​

Auralex Acoustics - SubDude

Its function isn't about raising the position of the subwoofer, which makes it an entirely different idea from what is being discussed in the opening post.

 

[j_garcia]

Its function isn't about raising the position of the subwoofer, which makes it an entirely different idea from what is being discussed in the opening post.

Yes, we should leave the discussion to the other thread since it isn't entirely relevant here.

 

[Pyrrho]

Recently moved to a new house and, due to space and layout constraints, I currently have one of my subs sitting on my entertainment center. I have to say it sounds pretty decent -- no rattles, even when it's really thumping.

I thought I'd read that having one sub out of place with the other can help smooth out peaks / nulls. Think I'm getting any benefit with the subs in this layout?

Whenever the subwoofers are not stacked on top of each other or side by side, they are "out of place" with each other. Whether one is raised off the floor or not is irrelevant to that idea.

Here is an article on subwoofer placement that you might find useful:

Subwoofer Placement Guidelines | Audioholics

Here is similar advice, though only one subwoofer is mentioned in it:

Crawling for Bass - Subwoofer Placement | Audioholics

Here the subwoofer portion advice is slightly different:

Loudspeaker Placement Guide | Audioholics

One of the reasons that rigid placement rules are not given for subwoofers is that the optimal placement depends on where one will be sitting and the acoustics of the specific room, which involves more than simply its shape. The materials used in construction, as well as construction technics, and the other things in the room, all affect the acoustics. So ultimately, the best performance is a matter of trial and error, typically with compromises based on other considerations as well (e.g., not blocking a doorway, etc.).

You should be okay with what you are doing, as long as the subwoofer is not vibrating the things in your entertainment center too much. Normally, though, I would not advise people to put their subwoofers on top of their entertainment cabinets, and would suggest keeping them on the floor. But if in your case it is not causing any problems, I would not worry about it if there is no other place to put it.