ELAC B5 vs Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy New Monitor

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Just a followup inspired by a PM I received:

A lot of people will discount my review as being personal preference, and while it is a subjective review, so that is valid, one thing that is quite clear and easily repeatable is the resolution of the AA's is superior.

If you go to the last song I reviewed (Lyle Lovett), you will see my comments on how a trill on the piano was subdued on the ELAC's. Anyone who has a pair of AA's can buy the Elacs from Amazon (via Prime shipping with their easy return policy) and do their own test. You don't need that particular Lyle Lovett song, just find any well recorded song with a piano trill. Because a piano is percussive, the attacks of each note are revealing and you will notice how subdued they are on the ELAC. I don't know what design characteristic causes this, but I believe it is ultimately the source of my overall conclusion that the ELACs were comparatively "dull". I had a setup that allowed level matched instant comparisons, but for this specific comparison, that is not needed; the extra crispness of the piano trill on the AA's is substantial.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
A lot of people will discount my review as being personal preference
Shut The Front Door!!! As much as we paid you for that review, even the perception of "personal preference" is unacceptable. As far as I'm concerned, don't you EVER ask me to pay for another of your reviews!
 
D Bone

D Bone

Audioholic Intern
Had the B5s for 29 days, and replaced them with SVS Prime Bookshelfs and couldn't be happier. The ELACs sounded good, but compared to the SVSs, they were a little flat.

The above being said, the B5s still sounded nice, especially for the money spent.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Had the B5s for 29 days, and replaced them with SVS Prime Bookshelfs and couldn't be happier. The ELACs sounded good, but compared to the SVSs, they were a little flat.

The above being said, the B5s still sounded nice, especially for the money spent.
Yeah, i don't mean to say the ELAC are bad speakers. I expect they outperform many in this price bracket.
However, they do have a clear weakness which is captured in this simple exercise. If I had compared them to another pair of speakers, I suspect I would have found more that the ELACs did better, but against the AA's, to my ear, there was nothing to redeem them for this lack resolution.
 
J

jstevensaudio

Audiophyte
none of these good for desktop use right? was thinking maybe new elac br4?. heard philharmonic AA might need 3 ft distance to listen, not nearfield? have a pioneer bs21 thought of modifying(don't know if worth it), looking for suggestions..Thanks.
 
Last edited:
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
none of these good for desktop use right? was thinking maybe new elac br4?. heard philharmonic AA might need 3 ft distance to listen, not nearfield? have a pioneer bs21 thought of modifying(don't know if worth it), looking for suggestions..Thanks.
If you are looking for desktop speakers for use with your PC, I would look at pro audio monitors or otherwise powered speakers designed to be used with a PC.

I can recommend the Presonus Ceres 3.5 as a speaker I have heard with high quality sound, but they are weak on bass - you will want a subwoofer with them! They have BlueTooth connectivity and a sub-out port!
http://www.adorama.com/PSC35BT.html?RRref=productPage

Mackie also has a great reputation (although I have never properly auditioned them) and these look like they would do fine without a sub. Note that power switch and volume controls are on back of speaker. You can turn on via power strip and if you adjust volume at your PC, you are good:
http://www.adorama.com/MAMR6MK3.html?emailprice=t&utm_source=cj_552179

But, if it was me, and if you don't intend to flood a larger room with sound, I'd try out the Swan M50W at $240. Swan has a decent reputation as a speaker manufacturer and Chane is reputed to be a great ID company to deal with and have a 30 day trial. I believe you would have to pay return shipping if you didn't like them.


Understand that I have not heard these, so you will want to do your own research or just audition them. And yes, it is the looks that grab my attention, but if they also sound good, I like beauty! Power switch is on back of sub and volume is adjusted via "puck" shown lower right.
https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/multimedia-desktop/hivi-acoustics/m50w
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=443
http://www.head-fi.org/t/568149/some-impressions-of-the-swan-m50w
 
Last edited:
J

jstevensaudio

Audiophyte
Thank you for your a
dvice. I have amp and d\a. Thought building a single driver speaker but don't have tools for that, like a fostex or such. Thanks again
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Listening to speakers like the AA's up close, you begin to hear the highs and lows coming from different places. If you are looking for a speaker that doesn't require a sub and will sound good up-close, you should listen to some KEF speakers and see what you think. They use concentric drivers, so the sound will always have the same centers!
http://www.amazon.com/KEF-Q100B-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers-Black/dp/B0047K3X1M?ie=UTF8&keywords=kef speakers&qid=1462668759&ref_=sr_1_37&refinements=p_89:KEF,p_85:2470955011,p_36:20000-50000&rps=1&s=electronics&sr=1-37
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
If you are looking for desktop speakers for use with your PC, I would look at pro audio monitors or otherwise powered speakers designed to be used with a PC.

I can recommend the Presonus Ceres 3.5 as a speaker I have heard with high quality sound, but they are weak on bass - you will want a subwoofer with them! They have BlueTooth connectivity and a sub-out port!
http://www.adorama.com/PSC35BT.html?RRref=productPage

Mackie also has a great reputation (although I have never properly auditioned them) and these look like they would do fine without a sub. Note that power switch and volume controls are on back of speaker. You can turn on via power strip and if you adjust volume at your PC, you are good:
http://www.adorama.com/MAMR6MK3.html?emailprice=t&utm_source=cj_552179

But, if it was me, and if you don't intend to flood a larger room with sound, I'd try out the Swan M50W at $240. Swan has a decent reputation as a speaker manufacturer and Chane is reputed to be a great ID company to deal with and have a 30 day trial. I believe you would have to pay return shipping if you didn't like them.


Understand that I have not heard these, so you will want to do your own research or just audition them. And yes, it is the looks that grab my attention, but if they also sound good, I like beauty! Power switch is on back of sub and volume is adjusted via "puck" shown lower right.
https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/multimedia-desktop/hivi-acoustics/m50w
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=443
http://www.head-fi.org/t/568149/some-impressions-of-the-swan-m50w
How about these:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/focalxs21/focal-xs-2.1-desktop-multimedia-sound-system/1.html

Thinking about ordering them myself. These also look interesting to me but a bit more expensive:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/kefx300abl/kef-x300a-5.25-2-way-digital-hi-fi-speaker-system-gunmetal-pair/1.html

Cheers,

Phil
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Just a followup inspired by a PM I received:

A lot of people will discount my review as being personal preference, and while it is a subjective review, so that is valid, one thing that is quite clear and easily repeatable is the resolution of the AA's is superior.

If you go to the last song I reviewed (Lyle Lovett), you will see my comments on how a trill on the piano was subdued on the ELAC's. Anyone who has a pair of AA's can buy the Elacs from Amazon (via Prime shipping with their easy return policy) and do their own test. You don't need that particular Lyle Lovett song, just find any well recorded song with a piano trill. Because a piano is percussive, the attacks of each note are revealing and you will notice how subdued they are on the ELAC. I don't know what design characteristic causes this, but I believe it is ultimately the source of my overall conclusion that the ELACs were comparatively "dull". I had a setup that allowed level matched instant comparisons, but for this specific comparison, that is not needed; the extra crispness of the piano trill on the AA's is substantial.
Personally, I think more reviews SHOULD use the same songs- how else can multiple reviewers have the same thing to compare with? It's impossible to use several reviews when the music used was different- the music is a variable that can't be allowed.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
AA MONITOR on left, ELAC B5 on right. Between the aluminum trim rings (I don’t know if they are Al or plastic with Al finish. Either way, they look nice) and the brushed aluminum (my name for it) vinyl, the ELAC is designed to be a pretty classy looking speaker! The AA’s are clearly utilitarian (though solid) looking speakers in comparison.







Unfortunately both of my ELAC’s revealed poor tolerances/assembly where the trim rings (which is actually one piece) was proud of the baffle between the drivers, but recessed above the tweeter and below the mid/woofer, as shown below. It is slight, but in today’s CAD/CAM/CNC manufacturing world, and with stable materials like mdf, plastic, and aluminum, there is no reasonable explanation. These speakers were ordered from Amazon on October 23, 2015 so were among the earlier production runs, but definitely not pre-production samples.



Did I somehow get a fluke pair? If you have B5’s, let us know how your’s look. It would be good to know that ELAC fixed this!

The ELAC B5 has received a tremendous amount of press generating plenty of buzz on the audio forums. On the heels of the Andrew Jones budget Pioneers, which arguably represented one of the best values in low-budget speakers. With a 1” soft dome tweeter mounted in a waveguide, a 5-1/4” mid/woofer, and a rear firing port; the ELAC B5 cost $229.99 including shipping from Amazon. It measures 12-3/4”x7-7/8”x8-3/4” (HxWxD) and weighs 11.5 pounds.

http://elac.us/speakers/

The AA MONITOR is essentially a Dayton Audio kit which has benefited from a crossover redesign by Dennis Murphy (this is a new and improved mod, not the old one posted on the Murphyblaster website). The kit (BR-1) runs $180 from Parts Express and uses a 6.5" mid-woof and 1-1/8" silk dome tweeter with a rear port. Dennis Murphy builds the crossover (with new parts), and assembles the speakers. Murphy’s offerings have been great bargains because he is not trying to capture typical profit margins or grow a business. The cost before shipping is $195, Fedex shipping to GA was $25 for a total of $220 (but shipping cost will vary depending on you location). 14-1/4" x 8-5/8" x 11" and about 22 pounds each.

http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

Listening session.

Norah Jones - Don't Know Why (Come Away with Me)


Norah's voice is a favorite proving ground for sound reproduction. She has lots of nuances such as subtly lilting and bending notes with a soft vibrato. The ability to produce these details is a good litmus test for speakers.

The B5 did a very good job of imaging, locating her voice more precisely than the AA Monitor.

Norah’s voice is more relaxed and open on the AA Monitors. With the B5’s, her voice sounded narrower with a hint of strain. I also noticed that the B5’s high frequencies fell-off below the highest harmonics/breath of her voice.


Ed Palermo - Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance (Album of the same title)

There is a lot going on in most Big Band Jazz ensembles! I play Baritone Sax in a big band, so know these sounds.

This piece has a drum-set lead-in which revealed the most dramatic difference between these two speakers. The AA’s sounded pretty good, but on the B5’s, the snare (springs against the drum skin) was muted, while the drum hit sounded strong. You could tell it was a snare, but it sounded too much like the snare lever was not engaged. After listening through the rest of my audition CD, I would guess the “bass” note of the drum was over-emphasized while the comparative suppression of higher frequencies kept the snare from being balanced.

The Alto Sax solo sounded as if it was father back in a hall with worse acoustics on the B5.

The Trombone solo sounded as if the player had his hand partially over the bell. Certainly nothing like a full cup mute, but definitely a little veiled. On the AA’s and my better speakers this is a properly bold and even brash solo!

This song really sank any hopes I had that the B5 would be an exceptional product. The above comments are about individual sounds, but more telling was the overall impression of the performance. A Big Band is a powerful ensemble; full of energy. This song opens with high dynamics and a quick hard-driving pace with accented attacks on every note and the B5 just did not carry that excitement into my room. Compared to the AA Monitor, I can only find the word “dull” to describe the sound. To double check things, I bumped the volume on the B5’s up 1dB so they were clearly louder than the AA’s and, while this helped them, the AA’s still carried more excitement!


Pink Floyd – Time (Dark Side of the Moon)

I like this piece because in the first few minutes it presents a variety of sounds.

The first seconds of the piece is white noise. Usually, this doesn’t get my attention because any differences are minor and it is pretty quick before the clock mechanisms start to gain attention. However, with these two speakers, I heard a distinct difference. The B5’s were stronger in bass and sounded more distant. I really had not noticed white noise having a “distance” before, but there it was! I think the distance/presence issue goes back to the B5 tweeters not having as much extension.

At 8s, for the clockwork (preceding the alarms), the speakers were tied, with both showing good detail.
At 19s, when the alarms/chimes fire off, the AA’s had a clear advantage. It simply has more high frequency extension which translates into more realistic and present sounds for bells and chimes.

At 54s, chords are presented using sustained bass and guitar for the lower notes of the chord with light electric piano playing higher notes to fill out the chords. The B5’s placed more emphasis on the mid bass, which gave a good strong character to those notes; however, the AA’s provided deeper bass, resulting in a more solid/grounded nature to those notes, and better shared the stage with the electric piano.

Again, the B5’s were dull. I noted for the vocals that the attacks at the start of hard constants were much softer on the B5’s and at 6 minutes into it, the snare was subject to the same effect as in the previous Ed Palermo piece. Overall, crispness was lost and the sound was dull.


Yes - Heart of the Sunrise (Fragile - Master Series)

The intro to this song is hard driving with bass and drums carrying the song. As with the Ed Palermo piece the energy was mostly lost on the B5’s.

At 3:25, the air in Jon Anderson’s voice was missing from the B5’s.

At 4:10, there is a soft section which is mostly a duet between Squire’s bass and Anderson’s vocals. I though the B5 might have an advantage here because it presents strong mid-bass. While this mid-bass was indeed strong, the B5 did not reproduce the metal string edginess which is Squires signature sound (and a major reason I have this song on my audition CD).

At the end of this song, there is an abrupt snippet of “We Have Heaven” (recording on the same album). While I have never understood the musical decision to include this, it made clear that the AA’s were better at resolving multiple voices.


Steely Dan - I Got the News (Aja)

At this point, things are starting to get redundant. My notes say the B5’s were “closed, thin, and veiled”. The vocals were more distant and lacking high frequencies (which translated as openness). The snare and cymbals sounded dull.


Chet Atkins – Sunrise (Stay Tuned)

At 57s, the triangle gets lost with the B5’s making it very clear that the ELAC tweeter just lacked extension.
I can say that the bass throughout this song sounded rich and lush on the B5’s, but it is at the expense of the overall balance with the guitar work.


Emilie-Claire Barlow – C’est Si Bon (the very thought of you)

Again, most of what I might say would be redundant. At this point, I am looking for something new or a very clear demonstration of a difference.

At 2s the alto sax lead-in has a grace note. The AA’s solidify it, but it is more of a ghost note on the B5. The difference is pretty strong.

I don’t know if it has to do with transient response or if this information is carried in the higher frequencies. Either way – the advantage goes to AA Monitors.

Lyle Lovett - She's No Lady (Pontiac)

I consider Lyle Lovett the male equivalent of Norah Jones. His voice has so much richness, often carrying a playfulness in its nuanced details. I was a bit surprised at how much of the character of his voice was lost on the B5’s.

At 1:36, there is a piano trill that presents the same loss of detail as noted with the sax grace notes in the Emilie-Claire Barlow piece above. The B5 has a hard time with quick notes. The percussive attacks are muted. I’d guess this ties back to the loss of excitement except on softer pieces.


Conclusion.
In a word, I found the ELAC B5 “disappointing”. Maybe it was all of the professional reviews that were not just positive, but full of superlatives and my expectations were too high, but I found the ELAC’s to fall behind the AA’s in about every situation and found very little to recommend the ELAC’s on!

Most notably, the ELAC’s lagged in presence and excitement

Don’t misunderstand, the ELAC’s are not horrible speakers, but while I found the WaveCrest HVL-1’s to occasionally sound better than the AA’s (to my ears), this essentially never happened with the ELAC’s.

I went into this comparison expecting (and hoping for) greatness from the ELAC B5’s. I expected them to be match or better or at least be fair competition for the AA Monitors. Perhaps to lag in one area and excel in another, but I never expected them to fall short across the board as they have to my ear. In my opinion, the hype behind these speakers is not warranted.

Competition.
In the same price range, I compared the AA Monitor to the WaveCrest HVL-1(link below, post #3). The AA’s were more accurate and clearly a better speaker (by any normal standards) and better value; however, unlike the B5's, I could find specific places in music where the HVL-1 sounded better than the AA's.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/new-2015-affordable-accuracy-speakers-by-dennis-murphy.95661/#post-1092558
You're saying the triangle was absent? That wouldn't be a matter of extension if the fundamental wasn't there.

How much "air" do you normally hear in the Lyle Lovett song? I'd like to know, to have some kind of reference when I listen to the same songs.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You're saying the triangle was absent? That wouldn't be a matter of extension if the fundamental wasn't there.

How much "air" do you normally hear in the Lyle Lovett song? I'd like to know, to have some kind of reference when I listen to the same songs.
I assume you are talking about the Chet Atkins song. The triangle was weak and lacked presence on the ELAC. It was there, but seemed more like something that was added just as back fill, whereas it is a significant voice metering the pace on the AA monitors (as well as on the more expensive quality speakers I have listened to this piece on).
While I used the term extension in my review, Dennis Murphy corrected me pointing out that the ELAC's have good extension, but I was likely hearing artifacts of the waveguide dispersion of the ELAC's.

I don't believe I know how to answer your second question. My concept of "air" makes it dependent on the voices or instruments playing. Unlike Norah Jones or Jon Anderson, Lyle Lovett does not bring much air into a song. I listened through this song and there are some brushes on cymbals, but I generally just would not use the term air in the context of this song.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
When I have seen and heard 'air' used to describe sonic attributes. It has meant 'sense of space' surrounding the singer or instrument, often totally created in prosuction through the use of various reverb devices/rooms or using multiple mics in the same acoustic space where it was recorded to use the natural reverberation of the room. Many vocals sound dry (no reverb), some medium and some are drenched in artificial ambiance, sounding completely unnatural and fake. Some recordings sound, to me, like I might be in the place where it was recorded because it seems so real.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
When I've read "airy" regarding speakers, I think more of timbre than of sound stage or reverb. I consider my Quarts to be airy. That's not to say they are sibilant, they hiss, or color the sound with any other unpleasantness. They simply reveal more overtones. They are breathy, as though you can hear the mechanics of the breath flowing through the singer's voice.

Think of the somewhat pressed timbre of Adam Levine's voice versus the more free-flowing breath of Bruno Mars. Or if you prefer a 90's pop context, then Sting vs. Bryan Adams. In my mind, "airy" speakers are more revealing of the differences than not-airy speakers. Ultimately, they add plausibility to the reproduction.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top