Dynamic EQ and equivalent for Yamaha

A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Hi,

Evereone on this forum seems to be a fan of DEQ. Could some one explain what it actually does. Is it damaging sound accuracy? Why do people mostly use it for movies? Is there equivalent for Yamaha?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Believe Yamaha calls it YPAO Volume? It's (DEQ) a loudness contour to approximate the way we hear certain frequencies at less than reference volume. What's accurate in a home system in the first place when it comes to reference volume might be one way to think about it...

ps While Audyssey/DEQ have their fans here, I wouldn't say "everyone" by a long shot....
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Believe Yamaha calls it YPAO Volume? It's (DEQ) a loudness contour to approximate the way we hear certain frequencies at less than reference volume. What's accurate in a home system in the first place when it comes to reference volume might be one way to think about it...

ps While Audyssey/DEQ have their fans here, I wouldn't say "everyone" by a long shot....
I think i tried ypao volume thing. Did not notice much difference tbh. Either it does not change much or my system sounds close even without this option. Should i hear the difference at -25db?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Might depend if you're tweaking it some other way with tone controls/eq already but I'd think it should be somewhat obvious at -25 from reference. Try this discussion
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
YPAO volume can be very useful at low listening levels (late at night, etc). It seems to put more emphasis on the mid-range making the sound richer at lower volumes.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I think i tried ypao volume thing. Did not notice much difference tbh. Either it does not change much or my system sounds close even without this option. Should i hear the difference at -25db?
If the YPAO volume is the same as DEQ, you would expect to hear no difference at reference level. The content is recorded with the idea of being played at reference level.
However, if you listen quite a bit lower you will notice that the bass has all but disappeared and the treble is not what it was at reference level. That is because we hear differently at lower levels. DEQ is designed to compensate for this by raising he bass and treble accordingly.
This is a well measured and documented phenomenon.
I'm not sure if this is the latest and most accurate graph, but it demonstrates the concept (along with the wikipedia link).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

In a way, this is the modern version of the "loudness" button found on older stereo gear. It was a good concept, but in those days where manufacturers were just figuring how to bring decent bass and clear treble to the populace, market forces quickly turned it into a race into absurdly amp'ed up bass and treble. Buyers would go into the store and buy whatever offered the strongest bass. The Yamaha variable loudness knob was the rare exception of the day, but most people never learned how to properly use it.
After the bass-glut, people started looking for a good balance across the spectrum and because of what it had become (and its inability to be adjusted - only on or off) the loudness button became a undesirable feature!
At least that is my version of the history of the loudness button!
 
Last edited:
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
If the YPAO volume is the same as DEQ, you would expect to hear no difference at reference level. The content is recorded with the idea of being played at reference level.
However, if you listen quite a bit lower you will notice that the bass has all but disappeared and the treble is not what it was at reference level. That is because we hear differently at lower levels. DEQ is designed to compensate for this by raising he bass and treble accordingly.
This is a well measured and documented phenomenon.
I'm not sure if this is the latest and most accurate graph, but it demonstrates the concept (along with the wikipedia link).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

In a way, this is the modern version of the "loudness" button found on older stereo gear. It was a good concept, but in those days where manufacturers were just figuring how to bring decent bass and clear treble to the populace, market forces quickly turned it into a race into absurdly amp'ed up bass and treble. Buyers would go into the store and buy whatever offered the strongest bass. The Yamaha variable loudness knob was the rare exception of the day, but most people never learned how to properly use it.
After the bass-glut, people started looking for a good balance across the spectrum and because of what it had become (and its inability to be adjusted - either on or off) the loudness button became a undesirable feature!
At least that is my version of the history of the loudness button!
Thank you, Kurt. Very informative. I need to play with this option a bit more. Does it depend on ypao eq being on?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Thank you, Kurt. Very informative. I need to play with this option a bit more. Does it depend on ypao eq being on?
I would presume if YPAO is not on, the volume knob would equally attenuate all frequencies maintaining an even balance based on dB/SPL... as opposed to an even balance based on our perception of loudness across the frequency range.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Was yesterday playing again with ypao volume. It looks like it applies those curves regardless of whether ypao itself is on or off. Just starting point is different.

Tbh for me atleast ypao sets some weird params tha i hardly hear any bass at all. Something like fronts +9db. Sub -10db. Even ypao volume does not help. It probably improves highs though.

I manually set fronts to 0 and maintain the diff between fronts and surrounds as ypao tells. My meter gave me similar results. For sub i set -3db which meter says is 6-8db above fronts.
 
P

Puglover

Audioholic Intern
Was yesterday playing again with ypao volume. It looks like it applies those curves regardless of whether ypao itself is on or off. Just starting point is different.

Tbh for me atleast ypao sets some weird params tha i hardly hear any bass at all. Something like fronts +9db. Sub -10db. Even ypao volume does not help. It probably improves highs though.

I manually set fronts to 0 and maintain the diff between fronts and surrounds as ypao tells. My meter gave me similar results. For sub i set -3db which meter says is 6-8db above fronts.
I have played around alot with all the Yamaha settings and read the manual and as many articles as I can find on this matter. In my opinion, at lower volumes you get a more balanced sound. With that said, they just don't do much for bass enhancement at lower volumes. This was part of the problem as to why I thought I needed more power, lack of bass. But when I turned up the volume to higher levels, the more the lower frequencies became more profound. I have found a few of reviews where people were complaining after setup with YPAO that their system doesn't have much bass at lower volumes, my problem also.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I have played around alot with all the Yamaha settings and read the manual and as many articles as I can find on this matter. In my opinion, at lower volumes you get a more balanced sound. With that said, they just don't do much for bass enhancement at lower volumes. This was part of the problem as to why I thought I needed more power, lack of bass. But when I turned up the volume to higher levels, the more the lower frequencies became more profound. I have found a few of reviews where people were complaining after setup with YPAO that their system doesn't have much bass at lower volumes, my problem also.
Sounds like a speaker issue not deq/req issue
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Sounds like a speaker issue not deq/req issue
Speaker issue? But spl meter shows what is expected. I deliberately left sub 6db above speakers. But yamaha suggests its not 6db but 19db)))
 
P

Puglover

Audioholic Intern
Sounds like a speaker issue not deq/req issue
Could be but when I turn off all eq, at lower volumes my system has more bass. With the eq on my Yamaha turned on, I am thinking it's not adjusting that well for bass at lower volumes. At higher volume it does. I will say after properly setting up YPAO ( which I learned how to do from a link on this forum) it sounds really good. It also seems like I am not the only one who has noticed this.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
Could be but when I turn off all eq, at lower volumes my system has more bass. With the eq on my Yamaha turned on, I am thinking it's not adjusting that well for bass at lower volumes. At higher volume it does. I will say after properly setting up YPAO ( which I learned how to do from a link on this forum) it sounds really good. It also seems like I am not the only one who has noticed this.
So do you have both ypao and ypao volume on? Can you share that link. Wonder ic i am doing something wrong.
 
P

Puglover

Audioholic Intern
So do you have both ypao and ypao volume on? Can you share that link. Wonder ic i am doing something wrong.
Yes, I have the Yamaha controller app and I have YPAO volume on, adapted drc on auto which is what the manual suggested. I will see if I can find it. Someone here suggested to another person to use it for setup and it worked really well for me.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Just confirming that Speakers are set to small
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I'd maybe wipe all the settings and start fresh again. Make sure that your ac or any other ambient noise is completely minimized when running the setup.
Yamaha set those to large during ypao but i changed to small.
 
A

Andrein

Senior Audioholic
I did this with 1070 and a860 with no noise and from scratch and they always set speakers to large.
 
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