DTV Signal?

[awesomebase]

For anybody with FIOS TV...
Got a new TV with a built in digital tuner. The "auto" scan on the TV just picks up two very weak analog channels and absolutely no "digital" channels. Even before I found this out, I ordered a couple of signal boosters in anticipation of this type of problem.
The short of it is that the same cable feeding the DVR to another TV works fine... all channels come through. The cable going to this new TV just doesn't work (and yes, I've tested the actual cable just sending a VHS tape signal through to the TV and it worked fine). So, is it just a poor signal? Or is it possible that the analog/digital tuner in the TV doesn't work? The cable going to this TV is about 75 ft to 100 ft longer than the cable going to the DVR (the one that works).
Not sure if that info is clear enough or not, but I wanted to get other people's opinion on this because I'm not sure what to look for first... (Verizon tech support wasn't any help on this... they couldn't figure it out and didn't want to commit to saying it may be a weak signal).
My only clue as to it being a "weak" signal is that the two analog channels are pretty snowy... one doesn't even give sound. And I know there isn't any kind of "in between" for digital... you either get it or not as the QOS for digital is pretty high.

 

[TLS Guy]

For anybody with FIOS TV...
Got a new TV with a built in digital tuner. The "auto" scan on the TV just picks up two very weak analog channels and absolutely no "digital" channels. Even before I found this out, I ordered a couple of signal boosters in anticipation of this type of problem.
The short of it is that the same cable feeding the DVR to another TV works fine... all channels come through. The cable going to this new TV just doesn't work (and yes, I've tested the actual cable just sending a VHS tape signal through to the TV and it worked fine). So, is it just a poor signal? Or is it possible that the analog/digital tuner in the TV doesn't work? The cable going to this TV is about 75 ft to 100 ft longer than the cable going to the DVR (the one that works).
Not sure if that info is clear enough or not, but I wanted to get other people's opinion on this because I'm not sure what to look for first... (Verizon tech support wasn't any help on this... they couldn't figure it out and didn't want to commit to saying it may be a weak signal).
My only clue as to it being a "weak" signal is that the two analog channels are pretty snowy... one doesn't even give sound. And I know there isn't any kind of "in between" for digital... you either get it or not as the QOS for digital is pretty high.

If the analog picture is snowy, then you won't reliably pick up a digital signal. Boosting is useless. The range of digital transmission is about 25 to 30% less than of analog.

If you are not using a good roof antenna, then install one. if you can't get good signal with a roof antenna, then you will have to subscribe to satellite or cable service.

Obviously the tuner is your DVR has higher sensitivity then the tuner in your TV.

 

[markw]

While the above advice is valid and helpful for OTA TV service, the OP's opening line and later reference to verizon tech support makes me think this may not be the case here. In TLS's defense, I will say that the thread's subject is misleading. DTV generally refers to OTA TV, not a cable (and FIOS does qualify as a cable) passed signal.

first off, that 75 - 100 feet is a significant length for a cable signal. Funky connections are a possibility but so is a weak signal. The down side is I don't think the service provider makes any guarantees for service on lines other than those they ran.

Thge best (only?) way to ascertain if the length/signal strength is a problem is to lug that big mutha TV set close to the junction box and plug it in with the same cable you use for the working DVR. If it is a signal strength/cable problem, it should work. If not, well...

AB, how did you acquire your DVR? Was it from Verizon? Some service providers pass digital signals gratis, some don't. Back in the analog days, simply splitting a signal would work unless a particular channel was scrambled.

Nowadays, many digital devices have an internal address that's used by the service provider to turn on and off services from a central office depending on the subscriber's plan. They must senf a signal to that particular address to make it work. If it's not one of theirs (and/or you aren't paying for it), they most likely won't. A few years ago, they had something called "cable cards" that plugged into devices that were supposed to do, but there were problems.

If it is frrom Verizon and your billing reflects it, then they DO have to make it work. If you got it somewhere else, they have no interest in making it work. From what you say, since it only picks up remnants of analog broadcasts, I'd say all digital service is turned off.

good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[TLS Guy]

While the above advice is valid and helpful for OTA TV service, the OP's opening line and later reference to verizon tech support makes me think this may not be the case here. In TLS's defense, I will say that the thread's subject is misleading. DTV generally refers to OTA TV, not a cable (and FIOS does qualify as a cable) passed signal.

first off, that 75 - 100 feet is a significant length for a cable signal. Funky connections are a possibility but so is a weak signal. The down side is I don't think the service provider makes any guarantees for service on lines other than those they ran.

Thge best (only?) way to ascertain if the length/signal strength is a problem is to lug that big mutha TV set close to the junction box and plug it in with the same cable you use for the working DVR. If it is a signal strength/cable problem, it should work. If not, well...

AB, how did you acquire your DVR? Was it from Verizon? Some service providers pass digital signals gratis, some don't. Back in the analog days, simply splitting a signal would work unless a particular channel was scrambled.

Nowadays, many digital devices have an internal address that's used by the service provider to turn on and off services from a central office depending on the subscriber's plan. They must senf a signal to that particular address to make it work. If it's not one of theirs (and/or you aren't paying for it), they most likely won't. A few years ago, they had something called "cable cards" that plugged into devices that were supposed to do, but there were problems.

If it is frrom Verizon and your billing reflects it, then they DO have to make it work. If you got it somewhere else, they have no interest in making it work. From what you say, since it only picks up remnants of analog broadcasts, I'd say all digital service is turned off.

good luck and let us know what happens.

I missed the fact that he was using that lousy FIOS system. I think that explains everything.

 

[markw]

Nobody's perfect.

I forgot to mehtion that in the case of my scenario two he might need to get a a set top box from verizon (and pay whatever subscription fees are involved) nn order to get the channels he wants.

So, why no love for Fios? We don't have it yet but I was kinda looking to it as an alternative to our Comcast when it finally makes it to our ghetto.

 

[awesomebase]

Signal strength

Yes, sorry about the confusion... I meant DTV simply as an acronym for Digital TV -- didn't know that was reserved for OTA signals only.
Guys at Verizon say it shouldn't be a problem to pick up the channels if the TV has a tuner. So I think it may be a signal strength problem.
The way it looks like it is setup to me is that a box from the outside is feeding a box on the inside which then converts the signal to run over coax and back outside to feed the cable splitter (originally setup by the cable provider) so that the signal is distributed the same as it was if hooked up by a cable provider. The run from the interior box to the outside 4-way splitter (only 3 of those are used and 1 is terminated) looks to be about 35 feet or so. From the splitter, the line that feeds the DVR-based TV setup is about another 40 feet to where it splits in two; the first going another 20 feet or so to the DVR-based TV setup, the second going another 75 to 100 ft to the TV with the tuner built-in.
I can't carry the TV down to where the DVR is based and try it directly as this is wall mounted and it is a two-person job to carry it (100lbs and high up on the wall). But, I'll see if the powered signal booster I ordered will make any difference. I have to feed other lines anyway which is why I ordered it in the first place (before I knew I would have this problem). But, I thought I would at least be able to get the signal on just the one run. The splitter is 2-way to allow for use with a cable/high-speed modem for passing through back up to the FIOS boxes.
If I find out anything more after this, I'll certainly post it here... I'm just kind of peeved that the techs didn't seem to know what the problem was... I thought that this was their job...

 

[TLS Guy]

I forgot to mehtion that in the case of my scenario two he might need to get a a set top box from verizon (and pay whatever subscription fees are involved) nn order to get the channels he wants.

So, why no love for Fios? We don't have it yet but I was kinda looking to it as an alternative to our Comcast when it finally makes it to our ghetto.

We have had a number of complaints about this system on these forums. I have no personal knowledge, but it is not hard to find unhappy campers on the Net. It sounds like a system to avoid to me.

 

[markw]

A word of caution on splitters.

Yes, sorry about the confusion... I meant DTV simply as an acronym for Digital TV -- didn't know that was reserved for OTA signals only.
Guys at Verizon say it shouldn't be a problem to pick up the channels if the TV has a tuner. So I think it may be a signal strength problem.
The way it looks like it is setup to me is that a box from the outside is feeding a box on the inside which then converts the signal to run over coax and back outside to feed the cable splitter (originally setup by the cable provider) so that the signal is distributed the same as it was if hooked up by a cable provider. The run from the interior box to the outside 4-way splitter (only 3 of those are used and 1 is terminated) looks to be about 35 feet or so. From the splitter, the line that feeds the DVR-based TV setup is about another 40 feet to where it splits in two; the first going another 20 feet or so to the DVR-based TV setup, the second going another 75 to 100 ft to the TV with the tuner built-in.
I can't carry the TV down to where the DVR is based and try it directly as this is wall mounted and it is a two-person job to carry it (100lbs and high up on the wall). But, I'll see if the powered signal booster I ordered will make any difference. I have to feed other lines anyway which is why I ordered it in the first place (before I knew I would have this problem). But, I thought I would at least be able to get the signal on just the one run. The splitter is 2-way to allow for use with a cable/high-speed modem for passing through back up to the FIOS boxes.
If I find out anything more after this, I'll certainly post it here... I'm just kind of peeved that the techs didn't seem to know what the problem was... I thought that this was their job...

While useful, they are not without hteir drawbacks. Every time you split the signal, you lose some.

If you have a four way splitter, each leg gets one quarter of the original signal.

If you then take one of those legs and put in a two way splitter, you get one eighth of the original signal.

If you then split one of those two legs, you have one sixteenth of the original signal.

And this doesn't even take into account the "insertion loss" you incur when you use these, so it's even weakerthan this example shows. ...and the long lengths don't help matters either.

If you do try a booster, insert it as close to the original entry point as possible.

 

[awesomebase]

Booster

While useful, they are not without hteir drawbacks. Every time you split the signal, you lose some.

If you have a four way splitter, each leg gets one quarter of the original signal.

If you then take one of those legs and put in a two way splitter, you get one eighth of the original signal.

If you then split one of those two legs, you have one sixteenth of the original signal.

And this doesn't even take into account the "insertion loss" you incur when you use these, so it's even weakerthan this example shows. ...and the long lengths don't help matters either.

If you do try a booster, insert it as close to the original entry point as possible.

Yes, I certainly will try doing that. My goal is to get the cable coming out of the box, split it in two immediately, and then drive both ends to the two signal boosters that each provide a 4-way split for a total of 8 boosted connections. I'll disconnect the outside splitter completely. Once I get the splitters mailed to me, I'll see if it works...