Do I need a pre-amp for my turntable?

[Vart]

I have to make a correction. We had an Onkyo with this problem a few months ago, and that receiver clearly stated that the phono input was line level and for use with turntables with a phono preamp stage. I assumed by the nature of your complaint it was the same problem.

I have downloaded the manual for your particular receiver, and it would appear that your phono input is a RIAA input for MM cartridges. It appears that this input has inadequate gain for your cartridge. What cartridge are you using? It seems you have two options. To replace your cartridge for one with higher output. There is quite a range in the output of MM cartridges. Your other option is to use a phono preamp and use one of the line level inputs.
Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the info. I have no idea what cartridge is on it. I got the TT from a guy that I bought a bunch of records from. It wouldn't surprise me if it is the original cartridge.

 

[Vart]

OK, I know this is an old thread but I finally regained some interest in this.

I went ahead a picked up this preamp:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Microphono-PP400-Phono-Preamp-187200-i1125385.gc

Still the same problem. I thought maybe I had a bad input on my receiver so I hooked the TT up to the amp I use for my computer speakers. With the preamp there is slightly more output than without it, but still no where near normal listening levels. I guess I can assume either my TT or at least the cartridge is the problem?

 

[TLS Guy]

OK, I know this is an old thread but I finally regained some interest in this.

I went ahead a picked up this preamp:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-Microphono-PP400-Phono-Preamp-187200-i1125385.gc

Still the same problem. I thought maybe I had a bad input on my receiver so I hooked the TT up to the amp I use for my computer speakers. With the preamp there is slightly more output than without it, but still no where near normal listening levels. I guess I can assume either my TT or at least the cartridge is the problem?

You never did tell us what cartridge you are using. Obviously it must be a low output type that needs an expensive high gain preamp, with low signal to noise. The other possibility is that the magnets in the cartridge have lost some of their magnetism, possibly by being placed close to a loudspeaker.

 

[Vart]

You never did tell us what cartridge you are using. Obviously it must be a low output type that needs an expensive high gain preamp, with low signal to noise. The other possibility is that the magnets in the cartridge have lost some of their magnetism, possibly by being placed close to a loudspeaker.

I'm not sure what kind of cartrdige it is. There aren't any markings on it. All I can tell you is that it is red.

 

[Lordoftherings]

I doubt it. It worked with his Technics. We had this crop up before, and I downloaded the Onkyo manual, and found those inputs were line level for turntables with preamps.

Page 40 from the Onkyo 805 manual: "The AV receiver's PHONO IN is designed for use with a moving magnet (MM) type cartridge."

Now, if your cartridge (MM) has a low output (mV), of course that you will have to raise the gain (volume level).
Also it is important to have the right tracking force and a good stylus in good condition to have a proper level too.

You can get some MM cartridge for as low as $20 with a high output (mV) that will be plenty loud with the 805.

By the way, the 805 has an excellent Phono preamp section with top grade parts, not like others. (Marantz doesn't even has a Phono input anymore in their receivers.)

Also some turntables have a better power supply. Also the interconnects are important, the turntables that come with attached interconnects are using very poor cables in the vast majority.

If you have an MM cartridge with an output of 0.5 to 1.5mV, you better crank the volume of your receiver, this is just normal.
But get an MM cartridge with an output of about 3 to 7.5mV, and you'll get a much higher gain, with louder level volume from your receiver without the need to crank it up.

LOTR

 

[Vart]

If I crank the receiver up as loud as it will go it still isn't loud enough for normal listening. I'm debating whether to get a new cartridge or save my money and buy a different TT. Maybe I'll find a treasure at a yard sale ths weekend!

 

[Lordoftherings]

If I crank the receiver up as loud as it will go it still isn't loud enough for normal listening. I'm debating whether to get a new cartridge or save my money and buy a different TT. Maybe I'll find a treasure at a yard sale ths weekend!

Well my friend, you must have an MC (Moving Coil) cartridge then.

My two last turntables, a Sony Linear Tracking cost me $5 and a Pioneer belt drive cost me $2. Salvation Army store.
All my cartridges (about a doz of them) are the MM type with high output (mV). You can buy a brand new cartridge (not used in this case) for a quite reasonable price, between $20 and $50, let's say. Just make sure that it has an output of at least 3mV, 4mV or 5mV even better. Then you should be very good to go. Make sure too it's an MM (Moving Magnet) type cartridge.
And adjust the azimuth and the tracking force according to the instructions (it usually comes with the cartridge).

LOTR

 

[Vart]

Well looks like the cartridge was to blame. I picked up a cheap Numark GT cartridge today and it seems to be working fine now. The Numark is only 2.5mV so I have to crank the receiver up pretty far, but it's within a reasonable range. Around 50% for normal listening.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Well looks like the cartridge was to blame. I picked up a cheap Numark GT cartridge today and it seems to be working fine now. The Numark is only 2.5mV so I have to crank the receiver up pretty far, but it's within a reasonable range. Around 50% for normal listening.

Great. And 2.5mV is fine, it's absolutely normal that that you have to turn the volume level up from your receiver as compare to other sources. The same thing happens with my same receiver and all my turntables.

Now, you can at least enjoy your albums (records or discs or 33's or vinyls).

And you can always add a few dbs more at the "Phono" source from the "IntelliVolume" feature of your receiver (from page 94 in your manual).

Cheers & enjoy these nice big spinning discs from your turntable with your new MM cartridge. I just love the sound of the needle (stylus) making contact with the groove from that vinyl. Very "groovy" indeed. It's so exciting and rewarding too.
There is nothing else like it. It's an Art, the art of sound mastering. The more you master this art, the better the sound. I love my Jazz & Blues albums; Miles Davis, John Lee Hooker...

Bob