DIY Sub Suggestions

[fuzz092888]

I've never done a DIY project, but I'd like to start. From what I've read, I think a subwoofer would probably be the best place to start. I only have basic woodworking skills, but I feel like getting something that has the cabinet and all the pieces that I would just put together would probably be better than jumping right into cabinet building.

Would I be better off going with a simple DIY where I would just "bolt everything together" so to speak, and what would some suggestions be?

If I'm wrong and there are great designs out there that don't take a ton of woodworking ability, could someone point me in that direction?

This would be mostly for home theatre use to go with the Phil 3s I ordered. I love bass, so I'd like something that can really move some air without sacrificing accuracy.

If you couldn't tell I'm trying to work my way up to something a bit more complex, say the ER18 MTM from Dennis and Paul. Long way to go before I attempt that though, and I just happen to need a sub so here I am.

Thanks.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Checkout Matt's latest sub - http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/79016-tc-sounds-lms-18-ultra-5400-first-impressions.html

Sealed box should an easy build or you could do same he did - order the box

 

[fuzz092888]

I did see that thread and was interested. This may sound a bit silly, but I'll ask anyways....So I go ahead and order the box or build one, finish it to my liking. I buy my subwoofer and pop that bad boy in there, add acoustic dampening and now I get a good plate amp, or other and hook it up and I'm good to go?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I did see that thread and was interested. This may sound a bit silly, but I'll ask anyways....So I go ahead and order the box or build one, finish it to my liking. I buy my subwoofer and pop that bad boy in there, add acoustic dampening and now I get a good plate amp, or other and hook it up and I'm good to go?

I would say yes, but then again - what do I know about subs or diy ? My first real sub is a give-away from Matt ... (Thank you Matt !!) That said - I heard nothing but extremely good words about this driver - other than the need for tons of power - including a dedicated 30A circuit .. According Mr. Ohm a Typical circuit can produce up-to 110V * 15A = 1650 Watts before the breaker would pop

One note - LMS sub is rated at 2k/rms 8k peak - I haven't seen much sub amp plates capable of that feat... going with pro amp would be probably the way to go

These thoughts alone might want to steer you into direction of more power efficient sub design

btw: What's your budget for this project?

 

[fuzz092888]

Yes, reading through the post I am now remembering that his sub needed tons of power. My budget is flexible, if I need to hold off for awhile before I can begin to save up a little that's fine. I'm in no rush, I don't even have my Phils yet. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say about $1000, any more than that and I start to venture into the price range of some very good production subs.

I've looked at the parts express DIY kits, madison sounds kits, and a few others. All the kits I've looked at are well below my budget, which is good, I'm just not sure how they perform and some of the comments about the parts express kits say that the cabinets leave something to be desired.

I guess I should say, I'm not looking to spend $1000+ on a driver and go from there, but if I can get away with a kit or a driver <$400 and go from there I'd be ok with that. I'd have to be convinced pretty thoroughly it was worth it to spend more on the driver and then have to go from there.

Thanks for your help.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Then I think you should seriosly consider building with JL Audio 12W7 sub like annunaki's
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/15445-beast-its-lair.html
I think it's safe to say it will kill anything commercial under $3k

Fi Q12 might another interesting contender but I don't know enough about it

 

[fuzz092888]

Interesting, whats the difference between a "car" subwoofer and commercially sold music/HT subwoofers? I'll have to ask him about his sub.

 

[Swerd]

Fuzz

I'd wait until you get your Philharmonic 3s before doing anything about a subwoofer. The Phil3s put out seriously deep and potent bass. Dennis has demonstrated them down to 25 Hz. He has a tone generator that he can plug in and set it on a wavelength. At 25 Hz, the Phil3s make walls and floor shake and closet doors rattle. If you have windows that aren't tight in their frames, the Phil3 will identify them for you.

Do you remember that Paul Kittinger also designed the MLTL bass cabinets for all 3 Phil models?

You may have mentioned it already, but what are you planning to drive them with. High powered amps aren't a requirement for these speakers, but a "big iron" amp will provide better control for the bass, making it sound a bit tighter. With these speakers, you may already have potent bass.

The reason why I say you should wait, is cost. You can get decent 12" sub woofers in sealed cabinets from Parts Express for roughly $600, such as the RS1200K. But it will reach down to about 25 Hz. It is unclear to me whether they will add much to your Phil3s. Unfortunately, to reach lower, down to 20 Hz, you will have to pay much more.

So be patient and first see what the Phil3s sound like alone.

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks, I probably wouldn't start any new project until after I got them anyways, but that's good to know. I was planning on using the Phil's for Stero music sans sub, but then using a sub or subs for HT use, but you are right I'll wait. I just want to have a little head start in case I te them and start thinking "Gee my house is still standing, that's unfortunate"

Almost forgot, right now I have an ABI stereo amp ready to drive them, thoughts on that?

 

[Swerd]

… Almost forgot, right now I have an ABI stereo amp ready to drive them, thoughts on that?

I'm not familiar with ABI, but a quick google search came up with AB International Amps - Amplifiers. What model do you have?

I've heard the Phil 1 & 3 driven by two different amps. One is an old Hafler amp Dennis has that was rebuilt by AVA into this, 125 wpc. At the Capitol Audiofest last July Dennis got a AVA hybrid amp the Fetvalve 350 that was 200 wpc. I thought that the smaller amp was sufficient in Dennis's decent sized living room. The larger amp was plenty in a large hotel room, roughly 25'×25".

 

[fuzz092888]

I have the 800.2, although I never run it anywhere near it's limits. Most of the time I can't even get the LED's to come on. Walter (Walter Duque) turned me on to ABI. I was a little hesitant at first, but I emailed them to ask a few questions and the owner, Bob, emailed me right back. He was really helpful and always pretty quick to respond. I bought mine used, about a year old perfect condition, and so far I'm impressed/satisfied with it. The fans are a little loud, but man can you drive the heck out of it.

I've been looking at component racks, specifically

OmniMount RE27 Enclosed Floor Rack, In Stock at OneCall.com

just to clean up my setup a bit and that should pretty much eliminate my issues with the fan noise. For musical setups in someones house, the fans on these amps are wayyyyy too loud, but for HT, or for a setup where the components are away in a closet or closed component rack somewhere not in the immediate vicinity of the listening area they're great. Eventually I'd like to go with an ATI, just because it'll be a lot quieter, but I can say these ABI amps are just as hardy as ATI. They're tanks, this little two channel is a little over 40lbs I think.

I did read that about Dennis using the AVA, but it was a little more than I wanted to spend on amps. I got the ABI 800.2 for $500 shipped used so it was perfect.

On a quick side note, your STs look fantastic, I noticed the photo link in your signature.

 

[Swerd]

I have the 800.2, although I never run it anywhere near it's limits. Most of the time I can't even get the LED's to come on. Walter (Walter Duque) turned me on to ABI.

That will be quite potent! Yes Walter likes big amps. He would use the generators at Niagra Falls directly if he could get cables long enough .

I did read that about Dennis using the AVA, but it was a little more than I wanted to spend on amps. I got the ABI 800.2 for $500 shipped used so it was perfect.

Dennis is not a big guy for electronics and amps. He is happy with what ever supplies enough juice for the speaker. I believe he once told me some one gave him the old Hafler amp after he did some crossover work for them. He met Frank Van Alstine when he collaborated with Jim Salk at some audio shows, and Frank insisted on rebuilding the old Hafler. He says it drives any speaker he's seen, including the Salk HT3 which was always tough to drive.

On a quick side note, your STs look fantastic, I noticed the photo link in your signature.

Thanks. Those are the standard curly cherry veneer.

 

[fuzz092888]

Yes Walter certainly does, he wants to come hear my Phils when they get here. I'm a little afraid of what earth shattering volumes he'll want to test them at

I definitely got that impression the little bit we've emailed back and forth.

The curly cherry looks great. Someday, when I finally get some time (and a bit more training/experience) I'd love to build a few speakers in bamboo. I was actually looking at the selah audio centers and saw that they have DIY for those which interested me.

*sigh* so many potential projects, so little time If only I was retired, maybe in another 40 or so years.

 

[skyline_123]

Nice choice in speakers there fuzz. I think you'll be very happy with the bass output of the Phil3's for both music and movies but if you've got a bit of a sweet spot for bass and need that extra low end for movies, you might find DIY is the way to go.

I think the $1k range for a sub is sort of in an awkward price range. On one hand, you could afford 2 decent commercial subs like the SVS PB12, Rythmik Audio FV12, Cadence CSX12, HSU VTF-1, etc, which I imagine will give you a decent Home Theater experience but on the other hand, however, if you can find it in you to purchase some used gear or wait for a good deal on Amazon, ebay, craigslist, etc, you could get something along the lines of a couple of JL 12w7's (I see them go for 300-400 quite often) and a Behringer EP4000 to power them. An EQ like the DCX2496 would put you over the $1k mark but you may want one eventually. Because the Phil3's will play so low already, I feel like if you want a good chance at improving the bass for around your budget, you'll have to try something a little more extreme like the JL W7 series subs or the single LMS-18 Ultra mentioned earlier (either one of these would get you some unbelievable bass).

Good luck!

 

[fuzz092888]

I know it's an awkward price range for commercial, which is why, should I decide I need it, I'd probably do DIY. I wish it was a bit higher but I don't see myself being allowed to spend any more than that on a sub in the near future.

I could probably swing the DCX, I just need to figure out what to do with an enclosure. Whether to try and build it myself or outsource to eD or some other company. I'll have to keep researching, but I have plenty of time, the Phil's aren't due to late May or June. In the mean time I'll be twiddling my thumbs and rocking back and forth in anticipation

 

[miniSQ]

I have built maybe a dozen HT sub woofers over the years, and i am currently building a 10 ft3 ported box for my IXL 18. Not once have i thought about price point or if i was saving money.

I do it because i still love building boxes for speakers.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I know it's an awkward price range for commercial, which is why, should I decide I need it, I'd probably do DIY. I wish it was a bit higher but I don't see myself being allowed to spend any more than that on a sub in the near future.

I could probably swing the DCX, I just need to figure out what to do with an enclosure. Whether to try and build it myself or outsource to eD or some other company. I'll have to keep researching, but I have plenty of time, the Phil's aren't due to late May or June. In the mean time I'll be twiddling my thumbs and rocking back and forth in anticipation

Rather than going with DCX, you could safely replace it with MiniDSP for significantly less money

 

[fuzz092888]

Well, once my first DIY project is complete I'll both a great sub that saved some money and then hopefully know if I like it enough to keep going. Odds are this is going to become my hobby within a hobby. If my GF doesn't kill me first that is....

 

[Nestor]

Just finished a couple of folded horns.

Still need to dial them in and finish them (aesthetically).

Very happy with the performance so far.

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/

Plans are very well written, and are manageable for anyone with basic carpentry skills.