Denon X3800H / Classe Audio CA-5200 - Ground Loop through RCA-cables?

[Hobolicious]

RCA plugs $1.63 each.

High quality make Switchcraft connector $5.08 each.

100 nanofarad caps $0.54 each.

100 ohm resistors $1.89 each

Balanced cable $1.09 per foot

Then you will have postage to Norway plus my shipping costs. So it will be in the ballpark of $50.00 for three 7' cables for the parts.

I will start a private conversation with you, but would again like to use the opportunity to thank you (and the others in the thread) for really trying to help me out with the issues I have been facing (and bearing with me through my uncertainties).

 

[Hobolicious]

I would have just built the cable from the first myself....have done it a few times for such situations. I'm not crazy about using the 6800 instead of 3800 for the cost/effort involved vs simply adding an adequate 2ch amp (too bad the Classe causes noise, but....)

It is very nice of TLSGuy to makethe offer. However, you need find it fun to make the cable yourself.

By tbe way, if you have doubt about the cheaper Ghentaudio cables, why not order one first?

While waiting, you can solder pin1 back on and use those 3 wrong cables, if the hum is not too audible from you seats right?

I don’t disagree with either of you that it would probably be more wise to do this myself and learn how to do it, but outside of currently not having the necessary equipment I am also struggling on time and brain capacity, haha (trying to juggle full-time work, two small kids and full renovation of a house does not leave much room for much else except for sleep, which I am already lacking too much of).

@PENG: Luckily I had one spare cable (seeing I only needed three, but these came as pairs when ordering), so I am able to use the remaining cables still.

 

[PENG]

I don’t disagree with either of you that it would probably be more wise to do this myself and learn how to do it, but outside of currently not having the necessary equipment I am also struggling on time and brain capacity, haha (trying to juggle full-time work, two small kids and full renovation of a house does not leave much room for much else except for sleep, which I am already lacking too much of).

@PENG: Luckily I had one spare cable (seeing I only needed three, but these came as pairs when ordering), so I am able to use the remaining cables still.

That's great, just curious, when you use the remaining cables that still have the original pin1 connection to the shell/ground, was the hum audible from you listening position in between tracks when it is supposed to be silent?

 

[Hobolicious]

That's great, just curious, when you use the remaining cables that still have the original pin1 connection to the shell/ground, was the hum audible from you listening position in between tracks when it is supposed to be silent?

Not when I have a wire connected between the two chassis (it was audible without that wire). I would also say the hum is most present on the front right speaker when moving my ears close to the fronts and center, but that is without measurements.

I would say I don’t hear the hum currently at listening position with the current setup, I only hear that “clicking” noise, but mainly in specific seating positions or trying to listen for it (mainly when things are quiet). I have a feeling others in my family would not really notice it (but as you know, when you first have heard that clock ticking on the wall the sound will never go away, hehe).

 

[PENG]

Not when I have a wire connected between the two chassis (it was audible without that wire). I would also say the hum is most present on the front right speaker when moving my ears close to the fronts and center, but that is without measurements.

I would say I don’t hear the hum currently at listening position with the current setup, I only hear that “clicking” noise, but mainly in specific seating positions or trying to listen for it (mainly when things are quiet). I have a feeling others in my family would not really notice it (but as you know, when you first have heard that clock ticking on the wall the sound will never go away, hehe).

The clicking likely have nothing to do with the cable, if is, it probably is due to something switching, electronically, and it got picked up by the poor shielding on your "wrong cable", no offense, are those cables really cheaply make, visually speaking I mean so it is hard to tell their build quality really but I have to ask?

 

[Hobolicious]

The clicking likely have nothing to do with the cable, if is, it probably is due to something switching, electronically, and it got picked up by the poor shielding on your "wrong cable", no offense, are those cables really cheaply make, visually speaking I mean so it is hard to tell their build quality really but I have to ask?

Hmm, I think the cables seem fine, obviously not at the same level of some of the more expensive brands you have listed (like Benchmark and March Audio):

 

[TLS Guy]

That's great, just curious, when you use the remaining cables that still have the original pin1 connection to the shell/ground, was the hum audible from you listening position in between tracks when it is supposed to be silent?

The problem with his cables is that they are dual mono for sound reinforcement when you are recording in stereo at the same time. That is what the extra wires are all about. This cables are useful in live gigs, when you are also making a stereo recording.

 

[PENG]

The problem with his cables is that they are dual mono for sound reinforcement when you are recording in stereo at the same time. That is what the extra wires are all about. This cables are useful in live gigs, when you are also making a stereo recording.

Everything is supposed to be so global nowadays, but it seems that every day we are still seeing some big differences in terms of procurement of things, whether it is automobiles, electronics, commodities, you name it. In the case, the OP can't even get those low cost Monoprice cables easily. That's too bad, people like us can make our own interconnects but most people who just want to enjoy the music wouldn't want to fool around so much if they can buy them for under $30. On the other hand, he could choose a Marantz product at about the same price or a little more as equivalent Denon modes whereas we would have to pay up to $1,000 more.

Guess that's fair, one can't expect to win it all the time.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, this might also be a possibility. Only reason I said Denon X6800H was because it is a receiver capable of powering all my speakers without the need for an external amplifier (freeing up space in my stand and removing some cables in the setup). What would you typically drive with such an amplifier? The SBL and SBR?

Do you know anyone who services cars or electrical service? A test light with incandescent bulb can be used to see if voltage is being conducted between the amps and it can also show problems in the electrical service. If you can't find a test light, any small incandescent bulb can be used (from a flash light, etc) but the LED type won't work because the brightness needs to vary with the voltage. Connect one end to the chassis of one piece and the other end to the other chassis- if it illuminates, voltage is present on one chassis. The next test would be to connect one end to each chassis and the other end to the electrical ground- if it illuminates, you have an electrical service problem.

If the electrical service problem is in the work done recently, call the electrician back, so it can be corrected.

 

[highfigh]

Hmm, I think the cables seem fine, obviously not at the same level of some of the more expensive brands you have listed (like Benchmark and March Audio):

View attachment 65110View attachment 65111View attachment 65112

There's nothing wrong with that brand of plug- they're a common brand, sold widely. Even no-name plugs can be about equal to the well known versions. I can see 'Professional Low Noise Audio Cable' in one of the photos, but no brand- do they show anything?

You can buy a multimeter from this site for 125 NOK (shows 100NOK ExVAT)- it's not expensive, but they're very useful. I only checked one site, but it would do what you need as far as voltage & resistance measurement.

Digital multimeter

Compact all-round multimeter with retractable stand, LCD display and protection against high voltages and currents. The instrument measures DC and AC voltage, DC, and resistance in five different measurement ranges, and tests LEDs, connections, and 1.5 and 9 V batteries. Accessories...

www.biltema.no

 

[TLS Guy]

I made the OP 3 cables today which I hope will solve his hum problem. I will mail them to Norway tomorrow.

All three cables test fine. I will mail them to Norway tomorrow.

 

[PENG]

I made the OP 3 cables today which I hope will solve his hum problem. I will mail them to Norway tomorrow.

All three cables test fine. I will mail them to Norway tomorrow.

Very nice of you to help someone who has trouble buying the right cable locally. Hopefully he will report back on the results. I am confident it will work well for him.

 

[Hobolicious]

Very nice of you to help someone who has trouble buying the right cable locally. Hopefully he will report back on the results. I am confident it will work well for him.

TLS Guy has been very helpful and continuously provided me with updates along the way. He sent the cables yesterday and it will probably take some time before they arrive at my place, but I will for sure update the thread with the outcome. Crossing my fingers that it solves the issues I have been facing, and potentially it could help others in a similar situation.

 

[PENG]

TLS Guy has been very helpful and continuously provided me with updates along the way. He sent the cables yesterday and it will probably take some time before they arrive at my place, but I will for sure update the thread with the outcome. Crossing my fingers that it solves the issues I have been facing, and potentially it could help others in a similar situation.

If he followed the wiring diagram (by Hypex) I posted, and from the photos he mostly likely did, it will work, I am 99% confident. He also said he tested them so we await good news from you. I hope the end results will, as you said, helped others. There are just too many misinformation on the internet, it can use every help, to dispel even one of those.

 

[TLS Guy]

If he followed the wiring diagram (by Hypex) I posted, and from the photos he mostly likely did, it will work, I am 99% confident. He also said he tested them so we await good news from you. I hope the end results will, as you said, helped others. There are just too many misinformation on the internet, it can use every help, to dispel even one of those.

Yes, I used that circuit as you can see in the pictures.

 

[adk highlander]

Any updates on this? Please post @Hobolicious when the cables show and let us all know if it fixed your issue.

 

[TLS Guy]

Any updates on this? Please post @Hobolicious when the cables show and let us all know if it fixed your issue.

I'm sure the cables have not got to Norway yet. They likely will arrive sometime around the middle of next month between February 8 and 15th.

 

[Hobolicious]

Any updates on this? Please post @Hobolicious when the cables show and let us all know if it fixed your issue.

I'm sure the cables have not got to Norway yet. They likely will arrive sometime around the middle of next month between February 8 and 15th.

I will make sure to update you as soon as I get the chance. As TLS Guy said they have not arrived yet, they have however arrived in Turkey today, so at least they are slowly closing in on the destination!

 

[TLS Guy]

I will make sure to update you as soon as I get the chance. As TLS Guy said they have not arrived yet, they have however arrived in Turkey today, so at least they are slowly closing in on the destination!

I would have at least thought they would have sent it to Paris or somewhere like that. Mind you France is a failed country right now, with Paris under siege by the farmers, who want to starve out the population of Paris like a medieval siege.

The dispute is over going green. The government has increased the cost of fuel to farmers, to burnish their green credentials. Like all governments, they are dumb as a rock. They are so stupid they do not realize that there are no electric tractors or other farm implements, and even if there were they would be so heavy they would be useless. So the farmers say they can't afford to farm and make a living at current prices. So they have blocked all roads going in and out of Paris with 800 or more tractors. They also have front end loaders and are piling up huge bales of hay across the roads stacked high. Nothing is being allowed in or out and especially no food items. Popcorn anyone?

 

[Hobolicious]

I'm sure the cables have not got to Norway yet. They likely will arrive sometime around the middle of next month between February 8 and 15th.

So the cables arrived today. I have not had the time to do a lot of testing, but initial testing does not seem to give the desired results. My small tests have been as followed:

1) I first tried to just swap the old RCA-XLR cables with the ones TSL Guy had produced, leaving everything wired as before outside of this change (so between the two units that means there are 3 x RCA-XLR cables, 1 x minijack for trigger and a speaker wire running between the chassis of the two units). This seems to produce the same outcome as the old RCA-RCA cables had (the ground loop, however potentially a little more subtle, though it is a long time since I had the RCA-RCA cables connected so can't fully remember the exact sound profile and sound level the ground loop was producing). The "popping"/"clicking" noise that the old RCA-XLR cables were producing is however gone. Further, it is acting very similar to the RCA-RCA situation in the way that at times the ground loop seems to suddenly go away (almost dead quiet), and then it just reintroduces itself. I have no idea how this is happening, but assume it has something to do with the speaker wire running between the two chassis.

2) I then tried to remove both the speaker wire going between the two chassis, as well as the trigger cable, but this just made the ground loop even more noticeable (meaning the sound level of the ground loop is higher).

3) I also tried connecting the speaker wire between the two chassis, leaving the trigger cable unconnected, but this seemed to give the same effect as 1).

This is so far a sad outcome, but at least it was worth the shot, and I would like to thank TLS Guy for producing the cables and shipping them my way.

Obviously, if you have any recommendations for what I should be trying before reverting to the old RCA-XLR cables please let me know.