Denon DVD-3930CI Review

[Thimboteous]

Are you talking about the player or receiver?

cheers

Yes, I was referring to the player.

Since you mentioned it I tried the Receiver in Pure Direct as well and Denon Link remains active unless I manually activate Analog on the Receiver. Since both components act the same I suspect it's by design, yet that seems to defeat the purpose of Pure Direct.

 

[WeAreSurrounded]

Yes, I was referring to the player.
Since you mentioned it I tried the Receiver in Pure Direct as well and Denon Link remains active unless I manually activate Analog on the Receiver. Since both components act the same I suspect it's by design, yet that seems to defeat the purpose of Pure Direct.

First, let me tell you that I have different combo: 3910/4306, but I think it works the same way as yours (will check it tonight).
I think you are double-right - it's by design and defeats it's purpose.
The purpose (on a player) should be to use it ONLY with the analog stereo or 5.1 outputs.
But, the M-Ch 5.1 analog cannot be enabled "on-the-fly", you have to go into the setup to enable it, and only after you switch off Denon Link or HDMI (LPCM M-Ch) - these settings are exclusive.
So, I think that for the 3910(3930?) the PureDirect (All Off) should be available only when the Analog 5.1 output is the current setup.
But, I suspect that Denon's engineers were so proud of their proprietary Denon Link invention (simple ETH cable), that they did not take notice ...

 

[rollinrocker]

I have digital coax, fiber optic, denonlink3, 2-channel analog and ext in. all connected on my 3930ci. For some reason i cannot turn denonlink to "off" as it skips over it in the menu. It will not let me highlite "denonlink" to turn it off so it stays on "3". I cannot get the "ext.in" to play dvd-audio or sacd's, only denonlink 3. What am i doing wrong? Something simple i hope!

 

[rollinrocker]

Whoops. Just found the answer in Clint's review. Must stop player before you can disengage denonlink.

 

[pbarach1]

I have digital coax, fiber optic, denonlink3, 2-channel analog and ext in. all connected on my 3930ci. For some reason i cannot turn denonlink to "off" as it skips over it in the menu. It will not let me highlite "denonlink" to turn it off so it stays on "3". I cannot get the "ext.in" to play dvd-audio or sacd's, only denonlink 3. What am i doing wrong? Something simple i hope!

I don't know if this will do it, but have you tried going into the digital input assignment screens on your receiver and reassigning the DVD player's input from DenonLink to either coax or fiber-optic?

As a matter of curiosity, I'm wondering why you even have the DenonLink connected if you're going to use the EXT IN inputs for SACD and DVD-A? Without DenonLink, you'd be using either the EXT IN or one of the other digital connections for everything else except SACD and DVD-A, so you wouldn't need the Denonlink.

Maybe you just like all those wires but I'd be extremely surprised if you noticed any difference at all on non SACD and non DVD-A material when comparing those three digital connections, since all three are sending the same digital stream to the DAC's in your receiver.

 

[WeAreSurrounded]

Whoops. Just found the answer in Clint's review. Must stop player before you can disengage denonlink.

EXACTLY!

 

[tgl]

I am very new to this forum (first post) so please don't yell too loud if i'm asking stupid questions (i'm trying and learning fast but it will take a while to come up to speed with you guys).

1. I am considering buying 3930ci to add to my 4306 receiver (working with Klipsch reference 7 speakers). So far I have been using XBox 360 to watch dvd's and am wondering what type of improvement in PQ I should expect to see?

2. I am also considering 3930ci for superior audio and it seems clear there will be significant benefit at least in that department (from what I can tell based on comments in this thread)?

3. Is it possible to connect computer (or hard drive) as input to 3930ci and play dvd's from there (I ripped and demacrovisioned my collection using mactheripper software so I have all of it on my mac mini and am wondering whether video chip capabilities of 3930ci can be employed in this fashion - or can this player only run various discs and no other input is possible - if this is the case does anyone know about other solutions that would allow for this?)

Thanks for any thoughs/comments.

 

[pbarach1]

2. I am also considering 3930ci for superior audio and it seems clear there will be significant benefit at least in that department (from what I can tell based on comments in this thread)?

3. Is it possible to connect computer (or hard drive) as input to 3930ci and play dvd's from there (I ripped and demacrovisioned my collection using mactheripper software so I have all of it on my mac mini and am wondering whether video chip capabilities of 3930ci can be employed in this fashion - or can this player only run various discs and no other input is possible - if this is the case does anyone know about other solutions that would allow for this?)

Thanks for any thoughs/comments.

I have a 3910 and the audio output is superb, especially when I use the analog outputs. The DAC's in the 3910 give me better results than the DAC's in my 3805 receiver.

3. I don't think there any any video inputs on the 3930, so I can't see how you could use the 3930 to process files from your computer. Isn't there a way to connect the video output from your mac to your videov display, and the sound to your audio system?


One option, if you have a wireless router on your mac, would be to see if you could use a piece of equipment called a media server to transmit the video signals from your computer to your receiver. I don't know anything about media servers (mine sends listenable audio and BAD-quality video only), but it wouldn't be hard to find out.

 

[tgl]

3. I don't think there any any video inputs on the 3930, so I can't see how you could use the 3930 to process files from your computer. Isn't there a way to connect the video output from your mac to your videov display, and the sound to your audio system?

One option, if you have a wireless router on your mac, would be to see if you could use a piece of equipment called a media server to transmit the video signals from your computer to your receiver. I don't know anything about media servers (mine sends listenable audio and BAD-quality video only), but it wouldn't be hard to find out.

Thanks for you thoughs - you confirmed what I suspected. As far as connecting mac to play movies from there to TV you are correct - I can easily connect my mac to either my sharp aquos directly via DVI or to my Denon 4306 via HDMI. My question was more directed specifically towards playing movies that are stored on the computer (or hard drive) but in addition to playing them from computer also passing them through video processing power of 3930ci to get the same advantage of advanced video processing of standard dvd movies that you get when you play the dvd disks via this player).
I thought that perhaps some of these high end dvd players can be as 'smart' as software dvd players in you computer which allow you to either play the dvd disks or to select a TS_VIDEO folder (movies you ripped and stored on you computer). But clearly we are not at this stage yet (at least not with 3130CI model).

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Do any other owners of this player observe a lot of macroblocking via HDMI? I output 720p, I've had my plasma calibrated via this player, have also had my player calibrated to get the best image possible. The pro installer that did the calibrations said he was very pleased with the results. But I see so much macroblocking, all the time, on just about every DVD I play. Could the problem be in my player? I doubt it, but it could be. I see this review does not mention macroblocking, but the way Clint wrote of the player, I would believe macroblocking was a nonissue. Could I simply be more sensitive to macroblocking, now that I see it and know what it is. I do find that I look for it in every DVD (unfortunately, I cannot stop!!! ) Are that many DVDs so poorly produced? I had the Denon DVD2910 before the 3930CI, and I do not remember seeing so much macroblocking, though I may simply not have know what to look for.

 

[MACCA350]

Maybe its the display, if your display has a slightly different resolution to what it is receiving it will be scaling the picture internally and this could be causing the issue.

cheers

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Maybe its the display, if your display has a slightly different resolution to what it is receiving it will be scaling the picture internally and this could be causing the issue.

cheers

Interesting. I don't see any macroblocking in high quality cable HD, or even my wife's favorite show which is SD. So that would rule out the monitor and DVR, and cable company. After I wrote the post last night, I took my highest quality SD DVD with plenty of dark scenes, Sin City, and put it in the player. I did see some macroblocking, but very little - not enough to bother me. Which again points to the source - the DVDs. I guess what's tripping me up is, do such a high percentage of DVDs have macroblocking? If it's expected, I can live with it. What's bothering me is thinking my player is bad, or the calibration it had is bad. Before Sin City, I watched my copy of Dances With Wolves, the version that Widescreen Review rated a 5 of 5 for video, and declared it of "reference quality". Granted it was released in '98, but in the 3 minutes or so I watched it, I saw macroblocking in just about every scene, in many difference colors, not just dark colors, but light colors, too.

 

[MDS]

Cable uses the same MPEG-2 encoding as DVD and often at much higher compression rates. If you never notice macroblocking or whatever the defect would be called on cable but notice it on nearly all DVDs then the problem must lie in the DVD chain.

Now what is the probability that nearly every DVD exhibits the problem? I'd say close to zero. Although the calibrator may be happy with his work, you certainly are not. I'd try a different dvd player that has not been calibrated connected directly to the display and playing the same DVD on which the problem was previously noticed and see if you can see any difference.

 

[westcott]

Interesting. I don't see any macroblocking in high quality cable HD, or even my wife's favorite show which is SD. So that would rule out the monitor and DVR, and cable company. After I wrote the post last night, I took my highest quality SD DVD with plenty of dark scenes, Sin City, and put it in the player. I did see some macroblocking, but very little - not enough to bother me. Which again points to the source - the DVDs. I guess what's tripping me up is, do such a high percentage of DVDs have macroblocking? If it's expected, I can live with it. What's bothering me is thinking my player is bad, or the calibration it had is bad. Before Sin City, I watched my copy of Dances With Wolves, the version that Widescreen Review rated a 5 of 5 for video, and declared it of "reference quality". Granted it was released in '98, but in the 3 minutes or so I watched it, I saw macroblocking in just about every scene, in many difference colors, not just dark colors, but light colors, too.

I am REALLY surprised to hear this because the Silicon Optix Realta and Reon processors are some of the best on the market and should not exhibit the same problems with macroblocking like some of the older Denon designs did using the Faroudjia processors and some digital displays.

I wish I could offer more help but the only reliable source IMO for DVD reviews has not done one on the 3930ci or the 2930ci. (Secrets of Home Theater). If it were using the older processor, I would say that it could happen with the wrong combination of DVD player and display, but this should not be the case with the SO video processor.

I am lucky, my 910 does not exhibit macroblocking AT ALL with my Panasonic projector.

My only other suggestion is to hook it up to a friends display and see if the problem goes away. If so, it is the combination of the two components that is causing it. If it persists, I think you may have a faulty unit.

Sorry I can not be of more help. I have been wanting to buy one as my last DVD player, but have waited for a Secrets review. I doubt you will have any trouble getting it fixed or sold for minimal loss but I am out of answers at this point. Very surprised. Hope you just got a bad unit.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

I am REALLY surprised to hear this because the Silicon Optix Realta and Reon processors are some of the best on the market and should not exhibit the same problems with macroblocking like some of the older Denon designs did using the Faroudjia processors and some digital displays.

I wish I could offer more help but the only reliable source IMO for DVD reviews has not done one on the 3930ci or the 2930ci. (Secrets of Home Theater). If it were using the older processor, I would say that it could happen with the wrong combination of DVD player and display, but this should not be the case with the SO video processor.

My only other suggestion is to hook it up to a friends display and see if the problem goes away. If so, it is the combination of the two components that is causing it. If it persists, I think you may have a faulty unit.

Sorry I can not be of more help. I have been wanting to buy one as my last DVD player, but have waited for a Secrets review. I doubt you will have any trouble getting it fixed or sold for minimal loss but I am out of answers at this point. Very surprised. Hope you just got a bad unit.

Thanks westcott and MDA for your suggestions. Getting a different player connected to my monitor, or connecting my player to another display would certainly help. westcott, your comments are what I was looking for. I wouldn't think that the SO Realty processor would produce the kind of artifacts I am seeing, so consistently on so many different DVDs. Just to see, I'm going to add my component cable (vs the HDMI currently connected) soon and see what that shows me. Let me ask you guys, let's assume that an uncalibrated 3930CI would not display that artifacts I am seeing. Do adjustments exist in the player that, when tweaked, could actually increase macroblocking in DVDs? I wonder if adjustments my installer made to the player in his calibration actually resulted in increased macroblocking. Don't know if that's possible.

BTW, westcott - very nice looking system you have. Nice room, nice pictures.

 

[westcott]

Thanks westcott and MDA for your suggestions. Getting a different player connected to my monitor, or connecting my player to another display would certainly help. westcott, your comments are what I was looking for. I wouldn't think that the SO Realty processor would produce the kind of artifacts I am seeing, so consistently on so many different DVDs. Just to see, I'm going to add my component cable (vs the HDMI currently connected) soon and see what that shows me. Let me ask you guys, let's assume that an uncalibrated 3930CI would not display that artifacts I am seeing. Do adjustments exist in the player that, when tweaked, could actually increase macroblocking in DVDs? I wonder if adjustments my installer made to the player in his calibration actually resulted in increased macroblocking. Don't know if that's possible.

BTW, westcott - very nice looking system you have. Nice room, nice pictures.

Thanks, I was just about to say I really like your equipment choice and wanted to see your photos too. I guess I should look for them but a link would be helpful. The Denon manual is 56 pages so give me a few minutes to look at it and I will see if there is a setting that could affect your display. I doubt it but SO is different from Faroudjia and that is the technology I am more familiar with. I would not hold my breath but anything is possible. I will get back to you.

Here is a link to the March Issue of Audio Video Interiors with our HT in it.

http://www.audiovideointeriors.com/readerqa/0307diy/

Thanks again for the kind words. Hope to see your pictures.

P.S. I would like to know why you chose the Senns 600 model. I want some headphones and have been debating wired vs wireless. I know I would get better performance from wired, but the convenience of wireless is tempting too. I will not be listening too much through the headphones, except at night when I can not sleep (insomnia, don't ya know) and my wife is tucked in bed so I am willing to compromise some sound quality for this, but not reliability.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

P.S. I would like to know why you chose the Senns 600 model. I want some headphones and have been debating wired vs wireless. I know I would get better performance from wired, but the convenience of wireless is tempting too. I will not be listening too much through the headphones, except at night when I can not sleep (insomnia, don't ya know) and my wife is tucked in bed so I am willing to compromise some sound quality for this, but not reliability.

I'll have to get some pictures taken. Actually I have a few, but I'd like to take a few more. I'll get them up and add the link to my signature. RE: the Senns 600, I bought those in late '01, so it's been some time. Like you, I use them rarely. At the time I bought them, they were about the most I wanted to spend on headphones, and had recently learned of Sennheiser. I did first purchase a wireless Senns model, and did not at all find it reliable, or of acceptable sound quality. But, that was over 5 years ago, so perhaps wireless headphones are better now. My only complaint w/ the 600's is they fit too tightly. I would not buy them again for that reason alone.

What a great article that is in Audio Video Interiors. That is this month! Congrats on your system, it seems as though it was recently completed. Very nice.

 

[westcott]

What a great article that is in Audio Video Interiors. That is this month! Congrats on your system, it seems as though it was recently completed. Very nice.

Now bare in mind that I am extrapulating some of the following setting recommendations from the Denon 5910 since it uses the SO Realta too.

1) Filters = ON for bad DVDs, OFF for quality DVDs, try both and see if it helps. Usually I do not recommend filters on but the SO video processor is heads above other solutions and it is reported theirs actually works.

2) HDMI should be set to auto, but it has been known to select the wrong display resolution. I am not sure what your displays native resolution is but I have a feeling it is not true 1920 x 1080 or 1080 x 720. If they are not, use a 480p max setting and let the display do the final scaling since it probably is not a perfect HD resolution. If it is, then set the Denon to the setting that matches it. Seems to be a weak point with the Denon and they should provide more scaling solutions\matches at this price.

3) RGB should be set to normal. Enhanced may calm the black levels on some displays but if it is calibrated properly, this should not be an issue. Try both and see if it helps.

4) Progressive Mode = Auto

5) TV aspect = Wide It should not stretch 4:3 but if it does, set it to auto or adjust the stretch setting so this does NOT happen. Stretching is bad as I am sure you know. ( Not trying to insult you, just covering the bases)

6)Contast Level = +2 It has been shown as a bug in the 5910 and the setting recommended seems to offset any clipping of the IRE range.

7) Picture Memories. Use them and remember to leave one of them to the original calibration of the installer. Take notes of changes, just in case so you can go back to square one, if need be.

The 5910 does not exhibit macroblocking problems. A little CUE but noise reduction seems to mask it. Just shooting in the dark here but you may get lucky. Let me know if any of this helps. I would also suggest maybe going to Secrets of Home Theater Forum and asking the staff there if they have any ideas or if a 3930ci or 2930ci review is in progress and if they have encountered macroblocking.

Hope this helps and we await your photos and response. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

P.S. I think reviewers should give their hat size or circumference. I have a FAT head, and would probably be one of those that would have fitting problems. Gene just did a review here on the 600s and said they were extremely comfortable. Maybe I will have to ask him to see if his cranium is as oversized as mine.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Now bare in mind that I am extrapulating some of the following setting recommendations from the Denon 5910 since it uses the SO Realta too.

1) Filters = ON for bad DVDs, OFF for quality DVDs, try both and see if it helps. Usually I do not recommend filters on but the SO video processor is heads above other solutions and it is reported theirs actually works.

I don't see any filter settings in the 3930CI's setup menu.

2) HDMI should be set to auto, but it has been known to select the wrong display resolution. I am not sure what your displays native resolution is but I have a feeling it is not true 1920 x 1080 or 1080 x 720. If they are not, use a 480p max setting and let the display do the final scaling since it probably is not a perfect HD resolution. If it is, then set the Denon to the setting that matches it. Seems to be a weak point with the Denon and they should provide more scaling solutions\matches at this price.

My native display is 1366x768, and I have my player outputting 720p. Yes, I agree at this price the player should have a 768p output. I'll try 480p and see what happens.

3) RGB should be set to normal. Enhanced may calm the black levels on some displays but if it is calibrated properly, this should not be an issue. Try both and see if it helps.

Yes, RGB is set to normal. I'll try enhanced, but that shouldn't be the problem.

4) Progressive Mode = Auto

Yes, that's the setting I have.

5) TV aspect = Wide It should not stretch 4:3 but if it does, set it to auto or adjust the stretch setting so this does NOT happen. Stretching is bad as I am sure you know. ( Not trying to insult you, just covering the bases)

Yep, this is my setting.

6)Contast Level = +2 It has been shown as a bug in the 5910 and the setting recommended seems to offset any clipping of the IRE range.

I'm assuming you're still referring to the player's settings. I'll have to see what it is set to.

I would also suggest maybe going to Secrets of Home Theater Forum and asking the staff there if they have any ideas or if a 3930ci or 2930ci review is in progress and if they have encountered macroblocking.

Good idea, I'll give this a try.

P.S. I think reviewers should give their hat size or circumference. I have a FAT head, and would probably be one of those that would have fitting problems. Gene just did a review here on the 600s and said they were extremely comfortable. Maybe I will have to ask him to see if his cranium is as oversized as mine.

Well, the circumference of my head is small, and I still find those headphones tight.

 

[westcott]

I don't see any filter settings in the 3930CI's setup menu.


My native display is 1366x768, and I have my player outputting 720p. Yes, I agree at this price the player should have a 768p output. I'll try 480p and see what happens.

Yes, RGB is set to normal. I'll try enhanced, but that shouldn't be the problem.

Yes, that's the setting I have.

Yep, this is my setting.

I'm assuming you're still referring to the player's settings. I'll have to see what it is set to.

Good idea, I'll give this a try.

Well, the circumference of my head is small, and I still find those headphones tight.

I must be getting old. It has been reviewed and no mention of macroblocking is mentioned at ALL!

Here is the link to the review.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all#DenonDVD-3930CI (HDMI)