Denon DVD-2910 Player Review!

[WmAx]

This is valid under 4 conditions:
1) Anechoic environment
2) Prime Ears
3) On headphone
4) At certain frequencies and SPL levels

Throw loudspeakers into a real room with real people and this changes dramatically. We will have a very detailed article addressing this topic by next week that will discuss this very topic with cited references.

Well, I suppose one has to define 'real room'.

The pereptual test to which I referred[1] in the past post was based on an ITU-R BS.1116 environment(not an anechoic environment or headphones), and using a speaker placed 1.5meters in front of test subjects. The test consisted of music, speech and test signal(white noise). The 0.2dB sensativity level was only accomplished with white noise under these conditions. Music and speech had a significantly higher detection threshold(>0.5-0.6dB). Since the lowest detectable rate seems to be 0.2dB in the best case scenarios, it seems logical to deduct that a 0.1dB level matching is required to ensure elimination of this factor in perceptual comparisons.

-Chris

Footnotes
[1]
The Subjective Loudness of Typical Program Material
Gilbert A. Soulodre, Michel C. Lavoie, and Scott G. Norcross
AES Preprint No. 5892

 

[HPK]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

 

[krabapple]

You may be able to hear an audible difference of 02.dB through a set of headphones but at listening levels and seated listening position I would wager that
No one this side of superman can hear a difference of 0.2 dB if you can
Then get them insured After 18 years as a custom installer commercial and
Residential I can assure you my ears are not that sensitive

I don’t understand what is so difficult to comprehend about level matching
For listening evaluation both units were connected to a passive A/B analog switcher connected to the same input on the receiver The Denon had a +2dB
Gain out of its analog outputs I simply made note of this and added +2db
When listening to the Yamaha. I went over this in the review

The issue here is not yet whether you can hear a 0.2 difference -- it's whether matching to within *0.5* dB difference was adequate to ensure no level difference bias effects. Science says no, 0.5 dB level matching isn't likely to be adequate for careful comparison. I don't see what's so difficult to comprehend about that. ;>

I look forward to the Audioholics article.

As for the rest, all you have to do is tell me that the receiver volume control was displayed in dB. ;> Otherwise I'm imaging you having to check level matching with an SPL after every switch, and it's not a happy thought.

And too, there's still the 800 pound gorilla in the room : the fact that the comparison wasn't done blind.

 

[shokhead]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

Some still say 5.1 for the 6 analogs. Its has dig out for dvd's and cd's and 6 analogs for multi-channel audio. 1 analog for each speaker inc the sub.

 

[RLA]

The issue here is not yet whether you can hear a 0.2 difference -- it's whether matching to within *0.5* dB difference was adequate to ensure no level difference bias effects. Science says no, 0.5 dB level matching isn't likely to be adequate for careful comparison. I don't see what's so difficult to comprehend about that. ;>

This is a cut and paste from the review. I dont recall mentioning that the review was scientific.Please use the review as a guidline only I think for the most part the folks can get a general idea of how I felt about the 2910

Testing and evaluating a DVD player's performance with test discs and various display devices is somewhat subjective to the reviewer's interpretations of the test results and are not absolutely scientific. Thus, this review should be used as a guideline only. .

 

[RLA]

Some still say 5.1 for the 6 analogs. Its has dig out for dvd's and cd's and 6 analogs for multi-channel audio. 1 analog for each speaker inc the sub.

It also has L/R Analog mixed in addition to the direct 6 channel multi-out

 

[Duffinator]

Since both the Denon 2910 and 3910 were both recently reviewed is there any change to get a comparison between the two? Besides having a more robust build quality is the 3910 worth the extra money? Is it's video and audio performance really any better?

Any opinions are appreciated.

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Thanks

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I am with Duffinator!! I want to know the answer too!!

 

[bumblebee]

Thanks very much for the review. I had a question regarding the multi-channel output of the player. It seems that DVD-A and SACD can have 6 full range channels. The Denon 2910 player seems to have 5.1 outputs. I don't believe I saw in the review any mention of how 6 channels are converted to 5.1. My apologies if I am missing something. My basic question is, how is the 6th channel distributed amongst the other 5 in this player?

HPK

5.1 is 6 channels. the .1 is the LFE from the 5 original channels.

 

[RLA]

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Now look what you have started Instigator
Clint is back East with the 3910 and I am on the West Coast with the 2910
The Hilton in New Orleans wiould be a nice place to meet,Donations? anyone

 

[Duffinator]

Now look what you have started Instigator
Clint is back East with the 3910 and I am on the West Coast with the 2910
The Hilton in New Orleans wiould be a nice place to meet,Donations? anyone

Come on, feed us a couple of crumbs here.

 

[bumblebee]

Any chance to get an answer to my question?

Thanks

both seem good if i had the money id go for the 3910. but the 2910 seems to be at par for less

 

[RLA]

Ok Ok
One slice of bread is all you get
My opinion : Lets say hypothetically that you have the cash to spring for a 3910 and have a Mid-Fi H/T audio setup and dont need the full bass management capabilitys of the 3910.
A very good alternative may be to look at the 2910 and purchace a start up room acoustics package with the money you saved or an addtional subwoofer or?
Duff you dont get any water with the bread either

 

[Duffinator]

Duff you dont get any water with the bread either

What no beer?

Thanks for your opinion. But you didn't mention which sub to go with my new 2910.

 

[Duffinator]

Another Question Regarding burned DVD's

Did you try watching any burned DVD's? I do a lot of home video and make backup copies using DVD+R and some players are pickier than others using burned media.

Thanks.

 

[Rotarhead69]

What no beer?

Thanks for your opinion. But you didn't mention which sub to go with my new 2910.

i can answer that! Get what I have a M&K - since I got my Denon 2805 and 2910 the bass is absolutely incredible! INCREDIBLE!!!!

 

[HPK]

5.1 is 6 channels. the .1 is the LFE from the 5 original channels.

Well, I am still confused about this issue. Here's an excerpt from the article titled "DVD-Audio vs. SACD vs. CD":

"The bulk of present releases of SACD and DVD-A require six full frequency loudspeakers. (Derived from the DVD-A specifications) The individual channels are named, right front, left front, center, overhead, right rear, and left rear. When this type of system is set up correctly and we play back good recordings, the result is stunning to say the least. Not all of us, however, have the space and the money to do this. Many of us already have 5.1 systems that we use for home theater, and attempting to convert six full frequency channels to 5.1 is not without considerable problems as Gene DellaSala has outlined in earlier articles on this web site. .....
....We will also need all of the bass information directed to the subwoofer. Then there's that pesky overhead channel. Do we mix that into the center channel? Or do we mix it into the right and left front channels? Having consumers attempt to adjust for all this is at best impractical and realistically improbable."

Ok, so my question is, what does the Denon DVD-2910 do to the so-called "overhead channel"? Essentially, if the 6th channel is to the subwoofer, you only have five full-range channels. DVD-audio often seems encoded for six full-range channels. So, my guess is the 2910 is playing the five full range through the front L/R, surround L/R and center with the bass from any small speakers directed to the subwoofer. In addition, it must be distributing the upper frequencies from the 6th full range channel somehow among the other five and the bass possibly to the sub-woofer. For example, it could be sending the 6th overhead channel through the surround L/R speakers. Does anyone know how the 2910 solve the distribution of this 6th "full-range" channel?

 

[gene]

Ok, so my question is, what does the Denon DVD-2910 do to the so-called "overhead channel"? Essentially, if the 6th channel is to the subwoofer, you only have five full-range channels.

Much of it depends on the recording, not the player. Most of the titles coming out now are compatible with a 5.1 configuration. Some of the earlier DVD-A discs such as Toy Matinee werent and if you didn't have bass management on the player or in the receiver, the subs were sent full range signal and you could hear instruments and singing coming out. Really weird. In that case, I default to the DTS track which has proper bass management and channel allocation for a 5.1 configuration.

 

[gene]

Since the lowest detectable rate seems to be 0.2dB in the best case scenarios, it seems logical to deduct that a 0.1dB level matching is required to ensure elimination of this factor in perceptual comparisons.

Haha, good luck finding a consumer product with potentiometers with greater precision than 0.5dB not to mention channel to channel tracking of that level of accuracy. Also, make sure you don't move your head more than a centimeter, blink, or sneeze when flipping between sources or you will be off far more than 1/10th of a dB

 

[HPK]

Some of the earlier DVD-A discs such as Toy Matinee werent and if you didn't have bass management on the player or in the receiver, the subs were sent full range signal and you could hear instruments and singing coming out. Really weird. In that case, I default to the DTS track which has proper bass management and channel allocation for a 5.1 configuration.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize that the newer titles are doing better at matching the popular 5.1 configuration. I suppose if I played Toy Matinee in DVD-A mode on the 2910, I may lose a lot of the information on the 6th channel since it would be rolled off due to the base management of the player. It would make sense then to use the DTS track since you are getting the sound that was intended in the recording.